Ridiculous steering - barely turns without winding the wheel

jdetar · 10-01-2005, 10:45 PM

So we've been building project mayhem for over 2 years now and are very close to completion. When first starting to test drive I couldn't help but notice I have to turn the steering wheel a lot to get a decent response. We have a toyota power steering setup and it's quite ridiculous. I didn't bother counting the rotations needed to completely turn the vehicle from side to side but I have to run the steering wheel around rather quickly just to make a simple turn. I'm not sure what the problem is and what can be done to improve this. It takes way to many steering wheel rotations to turn the vehicle.

Has anyone else run into this problem before? I'm stumped as to why this is happening.

ChicksDigWagons · 10-01-2005, 11:37 PM

I don't have a clue what your setup is, but, it sounds like you may have too short a pitman arm for the length of the knuckles.

Tusker · 10-02-2005, 09:06 AM

It is probably either your steering/pitman arm geometery, or your suspension. As mentioned above, too short of a pitman arm or too long of steering arms will require increased steering cycling to make a turn.

What are you running for suspension? Your problem may be lateral play in the axle. With long, loose springs and no panhard bar you can end up pushing the axle left or right instead of turning the wheels. Have someone watch the knuckles and axle position as you drive slowly and steer. If the axle is being pushed sideways instead of (or in addition to) turning the wheels, it should be easy to see.

jdetar · 10-02-2005, 09:17 PM

Thanks for the info. Here's some pics of the setup if that helps. We'll test the steering tomorrow to see if it pushes the axle around.

super_zook · 10-03-2005, 10:32 AM

Just a quick comment ... When sitting on the ground, do the panhard and draglink angles match? If not, they might be fighting each other.

jdetar · 10-03-2005, 11:00 AM

Hrm.. that is where they sit as the axle's are held in in the pictures from jack stands. Do those angles not look sufficient? We thought they were when designing everything but maybe not.

We also are thinking there's a problem with the power steering somewhere in a piece failing. It was rebuilt/ebay purchased stuff so who really knows the quality of it. We're going to test some things and will hopefully figure this out.

bogger61 · 10-03-2005, 11:02 AM

What is the number of turns from lock to lock in the steering box

OKIE ZUK · 10-03-2005, 12:09 PM

Hopefully 4 turns. I thought you'd been done with this. The draglink and panhard are at different angles and will have bump steer.

Non Urban · 10-03-2005, 07:40 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by super_zook

Just a quick comment ... When sitting on the ground, do the panhard and draglink angles match?

Doesn't look like it.

jdetar · 10-03-2005, 09:38 PM

Didn't get a chance to do anything tonight to it. But it's definitely more than 4 turns. It's at least 7 or 8. haha.

Yeah the angle's aren't exact.. anyone have a flat pitman arm they want to sell?

phil_j · 10-04-2005, 10:49 AM

wouldnt it be better to drop your upper panhard mount than run a flat pitman arm? that would keep both closer to flat at ride height, minimizing lateral shift during suspension cycling.

jdetar · 10-04-2005, 11:09 AM

Hrm.. yeah we could do that too I'm sure but that's going to be one long drop. We'll think the options over

bogger61 · 10-04-2005, 05:55 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by jdetar

Didn't get a chance to do anything tonight to it. But it's definitely more than 4 turns. It's at least 7 or 8. haha.

Yeah the angle's aren't exact.. anyone have a flat pitman arm they want to sell?

That many turns its the box what is it off of ,looks like FJ

10-01-2005, 10:45 PM	#1
jdetar Registered User Join Date: Jul 2002 Member # 12848 Location: Greensburg, PA Posts: 146	Ridiculous steering - barely turns without winding the wheel So we've been building project mayhem for over 2 years now and are very close to completion. When first starting to test drive I couldn't help but notice I have to turn the steering wheel a lot to get a decent response. We have a toyota power steering setup and it's quite ridiculous. I didn't bother counting the rotations needed to completely turn the vehicle from side to side but I have to run the steering wheel around rather quickly just to make a simple turn. I'm not sure what the problem is and what can be done to improve this. It takes way to many steering wheel rotations to turn the vehicle. Has anyone else run into this problem before? I'm stumped as to why this is happening. __________________ Project mayhem under way! Should be ready early spring time.

10-02-2005, 09:06 AM	#3
Tusker Registered User Join Date: Jan 2001 Member # 2752 Location: Fairfield, CA Posts: 2,043	It is probably either your steering/pitman arm geometery, or your suspension. As mentioned above, too short of a pitman arm or too long of steering arms will require increased steering cycling to make a turn. What are you running for suspension? Your problem may be lateral play in the axle. With long, loose springs and no panhard bar you can end up pushing the axle left or right instead of turning the wheels. Have someone watch the knuckles and axle position as you drive slowly and steer. If the axle is being pushed sideways instead of (or in addition to) turning the wheels, it should be easy to see. __________________ 86 Samurai w/gun rack, 92" WB, VW 1.9 TD, Toyota 5-speed and dual cases with 4.7 gearset, Toyota axles with Longfields, 5.29's, ARB's f&r, YJ's, 35's, FJ-60 power steering, high steer, ............. <>< <>< <>< Hey, if this rig is for wheelin', what are all these animal parts doin' in here?

10-02-2005, 09:17 PM	#4
jdetar Registered User Join Date: Jul 2002 Member # 12848 Location: Greensburg, PA Posts: 146	Thanks for the info. Here's some pics of the setup if that helps. We'll test the steering tomorrow to see if it pushes the axle around. __________________ Project mayhem under way! Should be ready early spring time.

10-03-2005, 10:32 AM	#5
super_zook Registered User Join Date: Feb 2005 Member # 42415 Location: Holland, MI Posts: 137	Just a quick comment ... When sitting on the ground, do the panhard and draglink angles match? If not, they might be fighting each other. __________________ 07 FJ - TRD SE - FOR SALE!!! / 01 XJ - 6.5"LA, 33" TSL's / 68 CJ-5 - In pieces ... Last edited by super_zook; 10-03-2005 at 10:33 AM.

10-03-2005, 11:00 AM	#6
jdetar Registered User Join Date: Jul 2002 Member # 12848 Location: Greensburg, PA Posts: 146	Hrm.. that is where they sit as the axle's are held in in the pictures from jack stands. Do those angles not look sufficient? We thought they were when designing everything but maybe not. We also are thinking there's a problem with the power steering somewhere in a piece failing. It was rebuilt/ebay purchased stuff so who really knows the quality of it. We're going to test some things and will hopefully figure this out. __________________ Project mayhem under way! Should be ready early spring time.

10-01-2005, 11:37 PM	#2
ChicksDigWagons Registered User Join Date: Sep 2004 Member # 36015 Posts: 129	I don't have a clue what your setup is, but, it sounds like you may have too short a pitman arm for the length of the knuckles.

10-03-2005, 11:02 AM	#7
bogger61 Registered User Join Date: Oct 2004 Member # 37182 Posts: 301	What is the number of turns from lock to lock in the steering box __________________ 88.5 sami,stock type4

10-03-2005, 12:09 PM	#8
OKIE ZUK Registered User Join Date: Nov 2002 Member # 14812 Location: Oklahoma City, Oklahoma Posts: 2,752	Hopefully 4 turns. I thought you'd been done with this. The draglink and panhard are at different angles and will have bump steer. __________________ '94 Samurai, EFI, 6.1 t-case, twin sticks, 5.29 locked and shaved Toys, RS9000X's, HS9500i, OBA, Coiled, 36" IROK's, 94" WB, etc, etc.

10-03-2005, 09:38 PM	#10
jdetar Registered User Join Date: Jul 2002 Member # 12848 Location: Greensburg, PA Posts: 146	Didn't get a chance to do anything tonight to it. But it's definitely more than 4 turns. It's at least 7 or 8. haha. Yeah the angle's aren't exact.. anyone have a flat pitman arm they want to sell? __________________ Project mayhem under way! Should be ready early spring time. Last edited by jdetar; 10-03-2005 at 09:57 PM.

10-04-2005, 10:49 AM	#11
phil_j Registered User Join Date: Jun 2005 Member # 48335 Location: bc, canada Posts: 382	wouldnt it be better to drop your upper panhard mount than run a flat pitman arm? that would keep both closer to flat at ride height, minimizing lateral shift during suspension cycling.

10-04-2005, 11:09 AM	#12
jdetar Registered User Join Date: Jul 2002 Member # 12848 Location: Greensburg, PA Posts: 146	Hrm.. yeah we could do that too I'm sure but that's going to be one long drop. We'll think the options over __________________ Project mayhem under way! Should be ready early spring time.

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