Repair the Old Bucket, or just Replace it ???

[Smiley]

As some of you already know - Last April I was playing catch-up with the group, going way-too-bloody-fast, and slammed into a submerged rock on the Rocky Mountain Loop Trail in Uwharrie. --- This hit instantly stopped all forward progress, and mule-kicked the rear end completely off of the ground and into an embankment…

My Rodeo has been handling like absolute crap ever since.



ITEMS REPLACED since April:

-Outer D-44 Axle Bearings and Races (new)
-Entire Steering Column (used)
-Transmission Mount (used)
-Motor Mounts (used)
-U-Joints (new)
-All 4 Rancho Shocks (new)



PARTS COLLECTION - ready & waiting:

-Steering Box w/ Pitman Arm attached (used)
-Idler Arm w/ frame-mount assembly attached (used)
-Steering Cross Bar (2 of them - used)
-Swordy Links (used - *very similar to Matt’s new heavy-duty Tie Rods)
-L&R-side Upper Control Arms (used)
-Right-side Lower Control Arm – (*The side that took the hit) – (used)
-Upper & Lower Ball Joints (used - *but I intend to get some new ones)
-Rancho Steering Stabilizer (used - from a 4-runner)
-Steering Column (*the original – it’s perfectly fine)
-1st Gen Trooper Springs (used)
-Add-a-Leafs (new)
-a set of 7-degree Steel Shims (used)
-Indy4x extended U-Bolts (new)



But before I go installing any of this stuff, I’m thinking that I probably ought to have it checked at a collision repair shop, just to make sure that it isn’t the frame - or the passenger-side boss - or something like that. --- It would really suck to go to all of that trouble, only to find out that I’d wasted my time and money… Not to mention the fact that my SAS is scheduled to take place in about another 18-months.

Believe me; compared to the way it’s been handling lately – I’m almost certain that the handling characteristics of the SAS will be a VAST improvement. --- I really wish that I had the funds to go ahead and do it right now!


Anyway…
If it turns out that I've bent the frame or such - assuming that they can straighten or repair it - just how screwed will I be when it comes time to do the SAS? --- I’m staring to wonder if maybe I might be better off just getting myself another rig and swapping all of my mods over.


All thoughts and opinions are welcome.


Cheers!
Smiley

[Indyguy]

The Isuzu frames are pretty stout... but no frame is unbendable. Given the circumstances leading up to the handling problems and the fact that other attempts have failed, a bent frame isn't a completely unreasonable explanation. If the frame is bent and they can pull it back into shape; it really shouldn't affect your SAS. Not to make assumptions about your fab skills... but I doubt your mounts and such will be fabbed so spot-on that the frame being 1/8" out is going to be a deal breaker. Best of luck!

[CPOM]

run a tape from known mount positions diagonally under the frame, then compare the other side diagonnaly accross. This will tell you if it is "diamonded". You can also look at front wheel to firewall clearance.

I bet your problem is something stupid like tires out of balance, a bad alignment, broken sway bar link on one side, or worn out upper control arm bushings and or balljoints.

I dont think a bent frame (bent so little it isnt obvious) is really going to change your handling charachteristics all that much as opposed to mud tires, lift, rear locker,and front suspension geometry changes would.

Plus, frame work is extremely expensive, beware

[Smiley]

Thanks guys!

I’ll give that cross-measurement thing a shot just as soon as the weather allows.


I can definitely rule-out the UCA Bushings, though…
I bought a set a while back, and was about to install them - but after getting in there - everything was nice and tight, exactly like it should be, with no slop at all.


Whatever it is – I guess you know it has to be pretty bad if I’m talking about starting over with another Rodeo!

…and trust me; it IS bad. --- Lately I’ve gotten to the point that I hate driving the damn thing – It’s just-plain SPOOKY around town… And Interstates? --- Forget about it – I don’t even!


I can tell you one thing - if I don’t find the source of the problem pretty soon, I’m gonna go nuts!


Cheers!
Smiley

[Andre75]

Smiley,
I can't remember if you've tried this yet. It seems like we've been beating this diagnosis to death for a while. Since you've got the parts, I'd replace the centerlink, ideler arm, and tierods (since you have upgrades). Shouldn't be too bad of a job with your handy-dandy puller . If that dosen't work, I'd swap the steering box. Something could be bent in there, and be tough to identify visually.

Lord knows you've tried everything else.

I should have taken the chance to drive your truck at Uwharrie to see what all this hubub is about

[Smiley]

Originally Posted by Andre75

I should have taken the chance to drive your truck at Uwharrie to see what all this hubub is about

Given the adventurous daredevil spirit in our group, I probably could’ve sold tickets!


Anything over about 20mph requires that you pay far more attention to the road than normal.

Imagine that everywhere you go you’ve got Casper the Ghost sitting in your lap – periodically tugging and pulling at the steering wheel, without any particular consistency… or warning. --- Every single bump or crack in the road is just as liable to require a steering correction as not – there’s absolutely no predictability to it at all… you just have to be ready for it whenever it happens… but it happens a hellava lot more often than you’d ever believe.


I had it aligned right after I got back from Uwharrie, back in April – but it really didn’t seem to make a difference --- Then, of course, I broke that Tie Rod in October… and I haven’t bothered to have it aligned again yet (I’ve been waiting to install all of these parts first) --- But honestly, you and Doug must have eyeballed it pretty damn well, because I can’t tell any real difference with my Trail Spare on there – it sure as hell doesn’t seem to be handling any worse than before.


The funny thing is – when you’re out on a trail, you’d never know that anything was even wrong with it… it goes right where you point it, and climbs over just about everything in its path.



As for replacing stuff…
I really wanted to wait and find out if there was something major causing all of this – Nonetheless, I was planning to order a set of new TREs for those Swordy Links this afternoon…

And I guess I might as well go ahead and get some Front Wheel Bearings while I’m at it.



I’m reminded of an old saying…
‘A boat is a hole in the water into which you pour all of your money.’

With that new Opel Badge on the way, maybe I should start calling my Rodeo ‘Das Boat’


Cheers!
Smiley

[BigSwede]

I am no expert, but it sure sounds like something is loose/worn in the steering linkage, allowing intermittent/random toe-out to occur...doesn't get you any closer to fixing it, but there you go...

[Indyguy]

Originally Posted by Smiley

periodically tugging and pulling at the steering wheel, without any particular consistency… or warning. --- Every single bump or crack in the road is just as liable to require a steering correction as not – there’s absolutely no predictability to it at all…

I would almost rule out a bent frame with the above post. The problem should be much more regular and predictable if the frame is jacked. Steve's assessment of a problem in the steering system is more likely given its intermittent nature.

[zutrooper]

Smiley: MY trooper did the same thing before the tera low install. All was fixed w/ new upper and lower BJs and a wheel bearing repacks. Its doing the smae thing right now. I think bearing repack and new idler arm (its quite bent) will fix the deal. I deifintiely think that anyc such issues are normally related to the front end (linkage, suspension, bearings, etc)

[kobyhud]

I know you probably checked this but I assume the leaf spring center pins are in tact... an inch of misalignment on the rear axle and you will dog track like a fiend . I have the problem right now on my rig... but for different reasons I would check the pins anyway just to make sure you are all lined up.

[Smiley]

I’m very relieved to hear that the symptoms seem to rule-out a bent frame…

The fact that the alignment back in April failed to correct the crooked steering wheel really left me scratching my head – especially since the pitman & idler arms remained parallel to the frame, both before and after I had it done.

By all outward appearances, it doesn’t seem that there has ever been anything wrong with the pitman or idler at all… nor have I observed any evidence of a ‘spun’ sector shaft on the steering box… Nothing. --- And to cloud the waters even more – as hard as that hit was that day, it didn’t tweak the Tie Rod in the least… So I’ve kinda maintained a few doubts that any of the force was transmitted inward to the steering cross-bar. --- But I could be wrong, and I have 2 of them ready-and-waiting.


As for the Leaf Spring Center Pins…
I’ve already been down that road once before, and now possess a mighty sensitive ‘Seat of the Pants Meter’ where that particular problem is concerned – but no, I certainly haven’t ruled it out as a possibility.

I acquired all of the above-listed rear suspension pieces prior to thumping my front end on that rock; under the assumption that I’d probably snapped another Center Pin last winter (when I slid off the side of the street and damn-near rolled it on that slick hill) – but that time it turned out to be the outer bearings in the D-44.


Since I have practically all of the pieces already, there’s really no reason not to go ahead and put`em on there… Why not, right? - All I need to totally redo the rear end is a set of Poly Bushings, and maybe some new Shackle Bolts (perhaps a set of Matt’s greasable ones).

Even so, it sure feels like the majority of the problem is coming from the front…
At least I’ve collected a rather healthy supply of parts for this frustrating little game of Hit-or-Misdiagnosis Replacement… Sooner or later, I’m bound to get lucky – but with my luck, it’ll undoubtedly be the very last thing still left to try



Thanks for talking me down off the ledge, guys.
Heaven help me, it looks like I’m keepin`er.


Cheers!
Smiley

[Andre75]

Smiley,
It's entirely possible that the only thing damaged in that hit was your "Seat of the Pants Meter"

might just need to get that re-calibrated

[Smiley]

Andre,
Oh sure – blame it on the instrumentation!

You Sir are cordially invited to KISS that meter of mine!



Cheers!

[Bansil]

First,right off the top

You Sir are cordially invited to KISS my ASS

this is pirate after-all

secondly

I should have taken the chance to drive your truck at Uwharrie to see what all this hubub is about

Andre I'll drive DAS Boat over new years and get back to about this problem,we''ll see if Casper screws with me

And Smiley if it drives good on the trails,then paint it flat black,take off your tag and cut thru folks backyards to get around town....my god son you do live in W.V.

We'll look at it on Saturday before the feista starts at Casa' de Smiley-----the boat captain

[Smiley]

Originally Posted by Bansil

...this is pirate after-all

Well, in all fairness, I did fly Pirate's Official Bird

Andre I'll drive DAS Boat over new years and get back to about this problem,we''ll see if Casper screws with me

Doug – I’m all for it… but be warned… `cause if you allow yourself to become too confident while negotiating a series of twisty turns, Casper will transform himself into an unspeakably menacing little ghoul, and try his level-best to hand you your ass on a platter.

And Smiley if it drives good on the trails,then paint it flat black,take off your tag and cut thru folks backyards to get around town....my god son you do live in W.V.

And THIS from someone who 4-wheels in his own front yard! (Oops, I mean: Pasture! )
--- 'Glass Houses', Bubba... 'Glass Houses'


Cheers!
Smiley

[DethYota]

I'm assuming if you had an alignment done right after the incident, the shop would have checked wheel bearings, ball joints, tie rod ends. After working in a shop for a while and doing many alignments I know that any mechanic would check all of these things before doing the alignment. However, since they didn't straighten your steering wheel as part of the alignment, it kinda makes me wonder. Assuming all of these things are ok, something that wouldn't be checked normally for an alignment are the bolts that hold the control arms on. These would not need to be touched unless they had to adjust the camber. I had an IFS Toyota that I managed to sheer off one of the lower control arm bolts by jumping it one too many times. It had very similar symptoms to yours and I had trouble diagnosing it until the bolt fell out and the lower control arm came off. Then it was pretty obvious! You should definately check those! Something has to be loose. If something was simply bent, then it would just pull to one side all of the time. I would jack up the front end and recheck everything:
wheel bearings
all rod ends
idler arm
ball joints (you have to put the jack under the control arm because if you let the control arms hang down all the way then there will be pressure on the ball joint and you can't tell if it's worn out)
control arm bolts
basically anything that connects the steering wheel to the tires or the tires to the frame

let us know what ya find!

[Smiley]

I’ve had my suspicions almost all-along that it might be the passenger-side LCA…
After doing the steering column swap (and discovering it made absolutely no difference, whatsoever), that was one of the first spare parts that I went out and bought.


Hopefully Doug and I will finally track it down this weekend, once and for all.


BTW – DethYota – You only live about an hour or so away…
If I ever get this thing fixed, maybe we could get together and `wheel some time.


Cheers!
Smiley

[Andre75]

Hopefully Doug and I will finally track it down this weekend, once and for all.

Calling in the reinforcements I see

Tell Doug to bring his Saw-zall

[Bansil]

Tell Doug to bring his Saw-zall

Roger-check'd---sawz-all 1 each

I like to cut on other peoples trucks,makes for good practice

[Bansil]

Ohhh........ugh.....well ugh

Eh Smiley don't worry if I cut off the wrong part.

Joe's got a new welder and I can fix it.

[Smiley]

Originally Posted by Andre75

Tell Doug to bring his Saw-zall

OR - maybe we could just use MINE!

That's right - I went ahead and Santa'd-up myself this year...
to the tune of 12-amps of rip-roarin' reciprocating fun!


Cheers!
Smiley

[Bansil]

OR - maybe we could just use MINE!

That's right - I went ahead and Santa'd-up myself this year...
to the tune of 12-amps of rip-roarin' reciprocating fun!

1st things first:

Let's get ride of that annoying squeak----->let's cut off your tire carrier and put the spare up top

then we can check out all the pcs.

you need to be up early on sat........it's actually warmer during daylight hours

do you have a small prybar?
If not let me know and i'll bring one.

[Smiley]

OK, I have Good News and Bad News…


The good news:
I’m very pleased to report that my 8-month-old front suspension problem was correctly diagnosed and repaired this weekend…

(Doug - you Da Man! )

It turns out that all-of-this-time I’ve had a bent Idler Arm



And the bad news:
It looks like I have TWO problems in the rear…

(#1) Apparently, on that fateful day, when the rear end mule-kicked into the air and slammed into that bank – it seems I ‘relocated’ the rear axle about ¾ of an inch over to the driver’s side.

(#2) The outer bearings that I had replaced on my D-44 in April are already shot to hell. --- I have my suspicions that they weren’t installed correctly to begin with - The mechanic that did the work was fired about a month ago… he was making so many mistakes that the owner of the place went 4-months without a paycheck!


So it looks like I’m not out of the woods quite yet - but at least now I can drive it without feeling like it’s gonna dart right off the road.


As for the specific details - I’ll let Doug report all of his observations, chapter and verse.


Cheers!
Smiley

[Andre75]

Glad to hear the Rodeo will get a new lease on life

My question is, exactly how did you shift the rear axle? What allowed it to move?

[Smiley]

Andre - That's a mystery in itself...
The only thing that I can figure is that it went all cattywhumpass when I slammed it against the bank - if not, I'm clueless.

At least now I know what I'm dealing with - Well, mostly anyhow.


Cheers!
Smiley