Pirate4x4.Com Bulletin Board  

Go Back   Pirate4x4.Com Bulletin Board > Miscellaneous > General Chit-Chat

Reply
 
Share Thread Tools Display Modes
Old 11-20-2006, 11:09 AM   #1
Benzz0
Zues of the Juice...
 
Benzz0's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2003
Member # 22923
Location: Richmond, VA
Posts: 1,120
Send a message via AIM to Benzz0
Get ready folks...well in 30 years that is - ARMAGEDDON!

The Threat is Out There

More than 100,000 asteroids hurtle past our planet. But only one—that we know of—may hit us in the next 30 years.

Scientists at Arizona's Kitt Peak National Observatory first spotted the Apophis asteroid in June 2004. (Photo: Bryan Allen)

Click to Enlarge


Friday the 13th of April 2029 could be a very unlucky day for planet Earth. At 4:36 am Greenwich Mean Time, a 25-million-ton, 820-ft.-wide asteroid called 99942 Apophis will slice across the orbit of the moon and barrel toward Earth at more than 28,000 mph. The huge pockmarked rock, two-thirds the size of Devils Tower in Wyoming, will pack the energy of 65,000 Hiroshima bombs—enough to wipe out a small country or kick up an 800-ft. tsunami.

On this day, however, Apophis is not expected to live up to its namesake, the ancient Egyptian god of darkness and destruction. Scientists are 99.7 percent certain it will pass at a distance of 18,800 to 20,800 miles. In astronomical terms, 20,000 miles is a mere stone's throw, shorter than a round-trip flight from New York to Melbourne, Australia, and well inside the orbits of Earth's many geosynchronous communications satellites. For a couple of hours after dusk, people in Europe, Africa and western Asia will see what looks like a medium-bright star creeping westward through the constellation of Cancer, making Apophis the first asteroid in human history to be clearly visible to the naked eye. And then it will be gone, having vanished into the dark vastness of space. We will have dodged a cosmic bullet.

Maybe. Scientists calculate that if Apophis passes at a distance of exactly 18,893 miles, it will go through a "gravitational keyhole." This small region in space—only about a half mile wide, or twice the diameter of the asteroid itself—is where Earth's gravity would perturb Apophis in just the wrong way, causing it to enter an orbit seven-sixths as long as Earth's. In other words, the planet will be squarely in the crosshairs for a potentially catastrophic asteroid impact precisely seven years later, on April 13, 2036.

Radar and optical tracking during Apophis's fly-by last summer put the odds of the asteroid passing through the keyhole at about 45,000-to-1. "People have a hard time reasoning with low-probability/high-consequence risks," says Michael DeKay of the Center for Risk Perception and Communication at Carnegie Mellon University. "Some people say, 'Why bother, it's not really going to happen.' But others say that when the potential consequences are so serious, even a tiny risk is unacceptable."

Former astronaut Rusty Schweickart, now 71, knows a thing or two about objects flying through space, having been one himself during a spacewalk on the Apollo 9 mission in 1969. Through the B612 Foundation, which he co-founded in 2001, Schweickart has been prodding NASA to do something about Apophis—and soon. "We need to act," he says. "If we blow this, it'll be criminal."

If the dice do land the wrong way in 2029, Apophis would have to be deflected by some 5000 miles to miss the Earth in 2036. Hollywood notwithstanding, that's a feat far beyond any current human technology. The fanciful mission in the 1998 movie Armageddon—to drill a hole more than 800 ft. into an asteroid and detonate a nuclear bomb inside it—is about as technically feasible as time travel. In reality, after April 13, 2029, there would be little we could do but plot the precise impact point and start evacuating people.


Fortunately, Apophis needs to be nudged only about a mile to avoid a gravitational "keyhole" in space—a region that would send the asteroid on a collision course with Earth. Otherwise, it would have to be diverted 5000 miles for it to miss our planet. This reduces the energy required to deflect Apophis by a factor of about 10,000—making it theoretically possible using current technology. A number of methods have been proposed to do the job.
According to projections, an Apophis impact would occur somewhere along a curving 30-mile-wide swath stretching across Russia, the Pacific Ocean, Central America and on into the Atlantic. Managua, Nicaragua; San José, Costa Rica; and Caracas, Venezuela, all would be in line for near-direct hits and complete destruction. The most likely target, though, is several thousand miles off the West Coast, where Apophis would create a 5-mile-wide, 9000-ft.-deep "crater" in the water. The collapse of that transient water crater would trigger tsunamis that would hammer California with an hour-long fusillade of 50-ft. waves.

BUT DON'T EVACUATE just yet. Although we can't force Apophis to miss the Earth after 2029, we have the technology to nudge it slightly off course well before then, causing it to miss the keyhole in the first place. According to NASA, a simple 1-ton "kinetic energy impactor" spacecraft thumping into Apophis at 5000 mph would do the trick. We already have a template for such a mission: NASA's Deep Impact space probe—named after another 1998 cosmic-collision movie—slammed into the comet Tempel 1 in 2005 to gather data about the composition of its surface. Alternatively, an ion-drive-powered "gravity tractor" spacecraft could hover above Apophis and use its own tiny gravity to gently pull the asteroid off course.

In 2005, Schweickart urged NASA administrator Michael Griffin to start planning a mission to land a radio transponder on Apophis. Tracking data from the device would almost certainly confirm that the asteroid won't hit the keyhole in 2029, allowing everyone on Earth to breathe a collective sigh of relief. But if it didn't, there still would be time to design and launch a deflection mission, a project that Schweickart estimates could take as long as 12 years. It would need to be completed by about 2026 to allow enough time for a spacecraft's tiny nudge to take effect.

NASA, however, is taking a wait-and-see attitude. An analysis by Steven Chesley of the Near Earth Object program at the Jet Propulsion Laboratory (JPL) in Pasadena, Calif., concludes that we can safely sit tight until 2013. That's when Apophis swings by Earth in prime position for tracking by the 1000-ft.-dia. radio telescope in Arecibo, Puerto Rico. This data could also rule out a keyhole hit in 2029. But if it doesn't, the transponder mission and, if necessary, a last-resort deflection mission could still be launched in time, according to Chesley. "There's no rush right now," he says. "But if it's still serious by 2014, we need to start designing real missions."

N 1998, CONGRESS mandated NASA to find and track near-Earth asteroids at least 1 kilometer in diameter. The resulting Spaceguard Survey has detected, at last count, about 75 percent of the 1100 estimated to be out there. (Although Apophis was nearly 2500 ft. short of the size criterion, it was found serendipitously during the search process.) Thankfully, none of the giants so far discovered is a threat to Earth. "But any one of those couple of hundred we haven't found yet could be headed toward us right now," says former astronaut Tom Jones, an asteroid-search consultant for NASA and a Popular Mechanics editorial adviser. The space agency plans to expand Spaceguard to include asteroids down to 140 meters in diameter—less than half the size of Apophis, but still big enough to do serious damage. It has already detected more than 4000 of these; NASA estimates approximately 100,000 exist.

Predicting asteroid orbits can be a messy business, as the history of tracking Apophis in its 323-day orbit demonstrates. Astronomers at Arizona's Kitt Peak National Observatory discovered the asteroid in June 2004. It was six months before additional sightings—many made by amateurs using backyard telescopes—triggered alarm bells at JPL, home to the Sentry asteroid-impact monitoring system, a computer that predicts the orbits of near-Earth asteroids based on astronomical observations. Sentry's impact predictions then grew more ominous by the day. On Dec. 27, 2004, the odds of a 2029 impact reached 2.7 percent—a figure that stirred great excitement in the small world of asteroid chasers. Apophis vaulted to an unprecedented rating of 4 on the Torino Impact Hazard Scale, a 10-step, color-coded index of asteroid and comet threat levels.

But the commotion was short-lived. When previously overlooked observations were fed into the computer, it spit out reassuring news: Apophis would not hit the Earth in 2029 after all, though it wouldn't miss by much. Oh, and there was one other thing: that troublesome keyhole.

The small size of the gravitational keyhole—just 2000 ft. in diameter—is both a blessing and a curse. On the one hand, it wouldn't take much to nudge Apophis outside it. Calculations suggest that if we change Apophis's velocity by a mere 0.0001 mph—about 31 in. per day—in three years its orbit would be deflected by more than a mile, a piddling amount, but enough to miss the keyhole. That's easily within the capabilities of a gravity tractor or kinetic energy impactor. On the other hand, with a target so minuscule, predicting precisely where Apophis will pass in relation to the keyhole becomes, well, a hit-or-miss proposition. Current orbit projections for 2029 have a margin of error—orbital scientists call it the error ellipse—of about 2000 miles. As data rolls in, the error ellipse will shrink considerably. But if the keyhole stubbornly stays within it, NASA may have to reduce the ellipse to a mile or less before it knows for sure whether Apophis will hit the bull's-eye. Otherwise, a mission risks inadvertently nudging Apophis into the keyhole instead of away from it.

Can we predict Apophis's orbit to the submile level far enough in advance to launch a deflection mission? That level of forecasting accuracy would require, in addition to a transponder, a vastly more complex orbital calculation model than the one used today. It would have to include calculations for such minute effects as solar radiation, relativity and the gravitational pulls of small nearby asteroids, none of which are fully accounted for in the current model.

And then there's the wild card of asteroid orbital calculations: the Yarkovsky Effect. This small but steady force occurs when an asteroid radiates more heat from one side than the other. As an asteroid rotates away from the sun, the heat that has accumulated on its surface is shed into space, giving it a slight push in the other direction. An asteroid called 6489 Golevka, twice the size of Apophis, has been pushed about 10 miles off course by this effect in the past 15 years. How Apophis will be influenced over the next 23 years is anybody's guess. At the moment we have no clue about its spin direction or axis, or even its shape—all necessary parameters for estimating the effect.

IF APOPHIS IS INDEED headed for the gravitational keyhole, ground observations won't be able to confirm it until at least 2021. By that time, it may be too late to do anything about it. Considering what's at stake—Chesley estimates that an Apophis-size asteroid impact would cost $400 billion in infrastructure damage alone—it seems prudent to start taking steps to deal with Apophis long before we know whether those steps will eventually prove necessary. When do we start? Or, alternatively, at what point do we just cross our fingers and hope it misses? When the odds are 10-to-1 against it? A thousand-to-1? A million?

When NASA does discover a potentially threatening asteroid like Apophis, it has no mandate to decide whether, when or how to take action. "We're not in the mitigation business," Chesley says. A workshop to discuss general asteroid-defense options last June was NASA's first official baby step in that direction.

If NASA eventually does get the nod—and more important, the budget—from Congress, the obvious first move would be a reconnaissance mission to Apophis. Schweickart estimates that "even gold-plated at JPL," a transponder-equipped gravity tractor could be launched for $250 million. Ironically, that's almost precisely the cost of making the cosmic-collision movies Armageddon and Deep Impact. If Hollywood can pony up a quarter of a billion in the name of defending our planet, why can't Congress?



CLIFF NOTES: in 23 years there will be a NEAR Earth Asteroid vissuaal to the naked eye...IF it is pulled into a gravitational orbit around the Sun it will hit the Earth in 2036 - unless we "nudge" it a mile or so...

WHO's WITH ME!??!?!
Benzz0 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-20-2006, 11:16 AM   #2
Mo
Everyday is Tuesday.
 
Mo's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2000
Member # 47
Location: The basement
Posts: 14,569
we're doomed
__________________
nothing on ebay
justadad
Mo is offline   Reply With Quote
Sponsored Links
Old 11-20-2006, 11:20 AM   #3
Travis Waldher
Registered User
 
Join Date: May 2001
Member # 4878
Location: Bremerton, WA
Posts: 6,358
Send a message via ICQ to Travis Waldher Send a message via MSN to Travis Waldher Send a message via Yahoo to Travis Waldher
50 foot waves nailing the california coast, potentially cleansing ca of it's worst... or destroy an asteroid before it hits us.

This really should fall under the - we can do it, but should we - catagory.

45,000:1, those are fairly good odds. consider that the odds of winning the powerball jackpot is 146,107,962:1, odds that many people feel is good enough to try winning...


That 45,000:1 isn't possibly going to happen? LOL...

Last edited by Travis Waldher; 11-20-2006 at 11:23 AM.
Travis Waldher is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 11-20-2006, 11:21 AM   #4
Terrys_85_Toy
RIP Bo
 
Terrys_85_Toy's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2004
Member # 34022
Location: Right Coast
Posts: 413
Blog Entries: 10
Send a message via AIM to Terrys_85_Toy Send a message via MSN to Terrys_85_Toy
__________________
Terry

Quote:
Originally Posted by fullygruntled
PBB is mostly dumb.
Terrys_85_Toy is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-20-2006, 11:40 AM   #5
XJUSA
Registered User
 
XJUSA's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2002
Member # 11132
Location: If I could start again, a million miles away.
Posts: 277
Blog Entries: 10
Solution: All chinese jump from a chair, that will bring the earth out of it's orbit and the asteroid will passing by. :lol:
__________________
Kick ass cancer Mira!
[url]http://www.givealittle.co.nz/cause/mira[/url]

Last edited by XJUSA; 11-20-2006 at 11:44 AM.
XJUSA is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-20-2006, 11:41 AM   #6
Spawn_X
Trailer Park Boy
 
Join Date: Jan 2003
Member # 16583
Location: Los Angeles, CA
Posts: 2,036
Send a message via AIM to Spawn_X
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mo
we're doomed
no we aint

two hours before, Ima roll me the fattie of a lifetime. that will in turn give me super powers, and I'll bitch slap that asteroid into the next galaxy

that will in turn start an inter-gallactic war against us, but Paz will take care of that one, so fuggit.
__________________
Quote:
Originally Posted by trampas View Post
you look like a moving violation when you're standing still.
Spawn_X is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-21-2006, 08:46 AM   #7
fullygruntled
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jan 2002
Member # 9614
Location: Charlottesville, VA
Posts: 932
I'll be kinda old to battle my way through the collapse of Western Civilization in 30 years. Hopefully it arrives sooner.
__________________
[url="http://www.pirate4x4.com/forum/showthread.php?p=10154905#post10154905"]Trading stuff[/url]
fullygruntled is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-21-2006, 09:10 AM   #8
Scott@Rockstomper
The winch rope guy
 
Scott@Rockstomper's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2000
Member # 1889
Location: Firestone, Colorado, USA
Posts: 6,084
[rem] It's the end of the world as we know it... and I feel fine. [/rem]
__________________
Winch rope, DIY beadlock kits, hydraulic steering, and much more: Shop Rockstomper online
Scott@Rockstomper is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-21-2006, 09:10 AM   #9
NoJoke
I'm a little tea pot
 
NoJoke's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2002
Member # 15480
Location: San Diego County
Posts: 356
__________________
"The hottest places in hell are reserved for those who, in crisis, remain neutral."--Martin Luther King Jr.
NoJoke is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 11-21-2006, 09:14 AM   #10
Priest
Zeus of the Sluice
 
Priest's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2000
Member # 2175
Location: Canton (Ohio not China)
Posts: 4,037
There was a big article about it in the latest Popular Mechanics. Pretty interesting.
__________________
Knowledge without mileage equals bullshit

Wing Zombie

Facebook
Priest is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-21-2006, 09:26 AM   #11
BRD
Wheeler
 
Join Date: Jun 2006
Member # 74465
Location: Port Hueneme CA
Posts: 258
I love it . The end of the world on my birthday.Don't fuck with me
BRD is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-21-2006, 09:33 AM   #12
Priest
Zeus of the Sluice
 
Priest's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2000
Member # 2175
Location: Canton (Ohio not China)
Posts: 4,037
It won't whipe us out though. Things are going to end on 12/21/2012
__________________
Knowledge without mileage equals bullshit

Wing Zombie

Facebook
Priest is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-21-2006, 09:34 AM   #13
Muddin
Glamour
 
Muddin's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2001
Member # 5123
Location: Texas
Posts: 2,292
Send a message via Yahoo to Muddin
Lets steal all of Korea's nukes!
__________________
Stabbings aren't funny.
Beatings aren't funny.
Clowns aren't funny.
But stabbing and beating a clown is.


Argue not to win victory over your opponent, but to advance toward the truth.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Rip DeLips View Post
You're up for an ass whoopin' when I finish this tequilla.
Muddin is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-21-2006, 09:49 AM   #14
jekbrown
Registered User
 
jekbrown's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2002
Member # 9070
Location: Vancouver, WA, USA, Earth
Posts: 1,055
Send a message via AIM to jekbrown Send a message via Yahoo to jekbrown


x about 100... and when it works, tell the anti-nuclear enviro nazis to FUCK OFF because if it was up to them we woulda be fucked.

j
__________________
Leftists have killed 100,000,000+ people... still think its a good idea?

[url=http://community.webshots.com/user/jekbrown]my 85 K5[/url]

Last edited by jekbrown; 11-21-2006 at 09:49 AM.
jekbrown is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-21-2006, 09:49 AM   #15
Mazda4x4
Registered User
 
Join Date: Oct 2002
Member # 14239
Location: San Antonio, TX
Posts: 208
Send a message via AIM to Mazda4x4
But this isn't the way John dreamed the end of the world would happen! It can't be true!! They are missing flying dragons with swords coming out of their mouths flying around and killing everything. Written for the times...
__________________
Don't taze me bro!
Mazda4x4 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-21-2006, 10:25 AM   #16
smokeeater
Registered User
 
smokeeater's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2005
Member # 55473
Location: W. STL - wishin' I was back in Lubbock, TEXAS
Posts: 76
Send a message via MSN to smokeeater
Last week, Nasa was talking about sending someone to the the "Armageddon" thing to it. Who's gonna volunteer?

http://www.guardian.co.uk/science/st...950258,00.html
__________________
Happiness is Lubbock Texas growing nearer and nearer - Mac Davis
smokeeater is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-21-2006, 10:34 AM   #17
FredZepplen
Registered User
 
Join Date: Dec 2003
Member # 25005
Location: Up the river
Posts: 13
By 2039 I'll be ready to do the Armageddon thing.

I'll buy a front row seat for the end of the world
__________________
non carborundum illigitima
FredZepplen is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-21-2006, 10:50 AM   #18
ScottFJ40
Zeus of the Sluice
 
ScottFJ40's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2002
Member # 11268
Location: Planet Earth
Posts: 2,916
I'll be dead by then I hope. Tough titties for you all who will still be here
__________________
"What do you mean, I ain't kind?
I'm just not your kind."


Help Mason!


Help Zach and Alec!
ScottFJ40 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-21-2006, 10:54 AM   #19
fledgling666
Registered User
 
Join Date: Apr 2002
Member # 11425
Location: sananto
Posts: 1,364
i think everyone already forgot about one crucial thing-

the Mayan calendar runs out of time Dec. 23rd or 25th, 2012, after the last of it's 26,000-year cycles.
__________________
[I][SIZE="1"][COLOR="Silver"]"do what thou wilt shall be the whole of the law"[/COLOR][/SIZE][/I]
fledgling666 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-21-2006, 11:06 AM   #20
Travis Waldher
Registered User
 
Join Date: May 2001
Member # 4878
Location: Bremerton, WA
Posts: 6,358
Send a message via ICQ to Travis Waldher Send a message via MSN to Travis Waldher Send a message via Yahoo to Travis Waldher
Quote:
Originally Posted by jekbrown
x about 100... and when it works, tell the anti-nuclear enviro nazis to FUCK OFF because if it was up to them we woulda be fucked.

j
That won't work against an asteroid of any planet ending size.
Travis Waldher is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 11-21-2006, 11:16 AM   #21
Snowbird13
Granite Guru
 
Join Date: Mar 2005
Member # 44136
Location: Back in Oregon.
Posts: 904
Quote:
Originally Posted by Travis Waldher
That won't work against an asteroid of any planet ending size.
The asteroid is only 820 ft wide(according to the link) I would think that we could blast it into smaller pieces with a few nukes, but what the hell do I know?
__________________
Hammers Thread post #1388
Tellico Rallypost # 285
Snowbird13 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-21-2006, 11:23 AM   #22
Travis Waldher
Registered User
 
Join Date: May 2001
Member # 4878
Location: Bremerton, WA
Posts: 6,358
Send a message via ICQ to Travis Waldher Send a message via MSN to Travis Waldher Send a message via Yahoo to Travis Waldher
Quote:
Originally Posted by Snowbird13
The asteroid is only 820 ft wide(according to the link) I would think that we could blast it into smaller pieces with a few nukes, but what the hell do I know?
It's hard to say. In a zero-G environment I would imagine that the explosion would have minimal impact on the surface of an asteriod. I think our best bet with nukes would be to try to push it away.

The 19-kiloton trinity test created a crater 2400 feet wide, but only 10 feet deep.

granted our nukes are much bigger now... but still...
Travis Waldher is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 11-21-2006, 11:49 AM   #23
Snowbird13
Granite Guru
 
Join Date: Mar 2005
Member # 44136
Location: Back in Oregon.
Posts: 904
Quote:
Originally Posted by Travis Waldher
It's hard to say. In a zero-G environment I would imagine that the explosion would have minimal impact on the surface of an asteriod. I think our best bet with nukes would be to try to push it away.

The 19-kiloton trinity test created a crater 2400 feet wide, but only 10 feet deep.

granted our nukes are much bigger now... but still...
Bunker buster type nuke?

We need to think of something. Bruce Willis will be too old in 23 years.
__________________
Hammers Thread post #1388
Tellico Rallypost # 285
Snowbird13 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-21-2006, 12:09 PM   #24
smokeeater
Registered User
 
smokeeater's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2005
Member # 55473
Location: W. STL - wishin' I was back in Lubbock, TEXAS
Posts: 76
Send a message via MSN to smokeeater
Besides, asteroids are typically pretty dense, so, if a large one was blown apart, who's to say that its own gravitational pull wouldn't pull it back together??
__________________
Happiness is Lubbock Texas growing nearer and nearer - Mac Davis
smokeeater is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-21-2006, 12:13 PM   #25
rockota
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jun 2001
Member # 5371
Location: mn
Posts: 2,924
Send a message via MSN to rockota
when we can predict tomorrow's weather accurately, I'll worry about this..
__________________
Brian K. Gallus
rockota is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump


All times are GMT -7. The time now is 01:00 PM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.0
Copyright ©2000 - 2010, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
©1998 - 2010 Pirate Media Group