C4 with pass drop diff?

YJ4RoX · 06-04-2007, 08:49 AM

Hey guys my new build up is in the planning stage and I am getting ready to transfer into the building process. Quick question:

Can you run a pass drop diff with a C4? Two piece drive shaft required? Or is it still impossible.

Is the servo/housing just to big to clear? I want to run a D300 clocked flat. I am not opposed to offsetting the engine/tranny to help with tcase/d-shaft clearance.

Anyone running this combo?

I have a 5.0L and I am getting a C4. I plan to run the shorty atlas adapter and a D300. I have a flipped D300 for my YJ but I want to run the non flipped D300 in the buggy. I have a pass drop D60, so running the pass drop D300 will save a ton of time/money. I can retube the D60 to drivers drop if I have too.

Thanks for any info.

Jeremy

YJ4RoX · 06-04-2007, 11:29 AM

Can a mod please move this to Gen4x4? I know most of the ford guys are already running drivers drop axles so this isnt a concern for them.

mondtster · 06-04-2007, 09:31 PM

As far as I can recall, the trans case itself shouldn't be an issue. You may run into clearance issues with the bellhousing and starter though if you plan on running a passenger drop axle. It's too bad I don't have one of my c4s at my house to take some pics to show you.

Totalled · 06-04-2007, 09:50 PM

YJ4RoX · 06-05-2007, 08:56 AM

Thanks for the pic I think I can make it work with a 2 piece drive shaft and a little motor offset.

sceep · 06-05-2007, 10:14 AM

2 piece shaft should cure your issues.

YJ4RoX · 06-05-2007, 01:31 PM

thanks sceep

JackA · 06-05-2007, 03:16 PM

I am running a 5.0, C4, and a Stak 2 speed in my buggy. Everything clears fine on mine with a 1 piece front shaft. I can post some pix later if you want.

Jason M · 06-05-2007, 03:16 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by sceep

2 piece shaft should cure your issues.

Thats my plan with a low landcruiser with a c6

YJ4RoX · 06-06-2007, 06:29 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by JackA

I am running a 5.0, C4, and a Stak 2 speed in my buggy. Everything clears fine on mine with a 1 piece front shaft. I can post some pix later if you want.

Pics would be killer man! Do you know if the Stak is wider than a D300?

A one piece shaft would be nice since I already have one, hehehe. I will be narrowing the D60 to 64" so I can offset the diff even more to help with clearance as well.

JackA · 06-06-2007, 08:54 AM

The Stak is wider then the 300. I believe there's comparison dimensions between the 2 in the vendor section. The thread is about the replacement case for the 300.
I'll post up some pix tonite. I forgot to post them last nite.

YJ4RoX · 06-06-2007, 09:06 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by JackA

The Stak is wider then the 300. I believe there's comparison dimensions between the 2 in the vendor section. The thread is about the replacement case for the 300.
I'll post up some pix tonite. I forgot to post them last nite.

Thanks Jack, no hurry. I thought that thread you mentioned listed dimensions. I will check it out.

JackA · 06-06-2007, 06:02 PM

These pix are kinda crappy. It was difficult to get a good shot of the whole setup, but I think you'll get the drift. That's a BAMF cv joint and it's huge. The driveshaft actually angles alittle towards the driver side. When I was fitting the new motor, tranny, tcase into my buggy which originaly had Toy stuff, the front driveshaft clearance was an issue. It fit though.

mondtster · 06-06-2007, 10:05 PM

JackA, does the driveshaft ever contact the starter or starter pocket on that setup? Or have you limited the travel so that it won't? Just curious...

Also, what output shaft and adapter did you use to get that t-case on there?

YJ4RoX · 06-07-2007, 06:44 AM

SWEEEET PICS MAN!! Thanks very much Jack. Thats exactly what I was looking for!

With the D300 clocked properly and with a little motor offset I might be able to run the one piece I have. Thanks again for the pics.

Do you have a thread with your motor build and/or specs in it. I have the 5.0, I am now trying to decide how to build it. I really want some aluminum heads to shave that 50lbs, plus the polymer upper plenum that shaves another 20lbs. If I can shave the 70lb or so and get about 300hp. I would be happy.

How are you liking the 5.0L so far on the trail. I know you guys crawl a lot, any warnings, insight or advice?

Thanks
Jeremy

JackA · 06-07-2007, 08:18 AM

The driveshaft clears everything. I am usings the Advanced Adapters shorty C4 adapter.
As for the motor, I don't have any write up but I may be doing one soon. My 5.0 is pretty much stock except the throttle body, mass air meter housing, and headers. It has been a great motor so far. Plenty of power and low end grunt. I do need to redo the PCV system, cause when you roll, oil can pour into the intake. For the wiring, I used a Painless harness and it was a piece of cake. I have the Ford motorsports harness that I need to sell too. I want to swap the aluminum heads on there too, but that's going to have to weight. 5.0's are great motors for buggies.

mondtster · 06-07-2007, 08:23 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by JackA

The driveshaft clears everything. I am usings the Advanced Adapters shorty C4 adapter.

It must just be the angle of the pics or something on the driveshaft clearance.

I figured you were using the AA shorty adapter. That makes those trannys really short!

YJ4RoX · 06-07-2007, 09:52 AM

My plan is the atlas shorty adapter as well. From Bell to output with my short D300 the overall length will be 30.5". Thats pretty short.

Thanks for the motor info, my plans are similar for the first round of the build. Try bolt on stuff first and then get into internals. 70mm TB, 24# injectors, 73mm MAF meter, etc... I may try the exploder intake and do some port matching to it. I already have a cam and the headers are in the mail. I dont want to swap cams if I dont swap heads since the heads are the choke point. Its just going to be hard to pony up the $$ for aluminum heads. Shoot thats the money for my alloy shafts & ujoints for my 60.

Did you eliminate all of the EGR parts, plus the ports, etc...? I want mine bare bones, Alt & PS pump & thats it.

I have a Harness and A9P ECM out of a 92 GT. I am just going to rework the stock harness.

Thanks for all the great info.

JackA · 06-07-2007, 01:11 PM

I eliminated everything except the EGR. You need to wire in some resistors and stuff if you want to remove it. Otherwise the computer will throw error codes and the check engine lite will be on. I didn't do much else cause the heads are the choke. It runs pretty strong in it's current setup.

mondtster · 06-07-2007, 03:04 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by JackA

I eliminated everything except the EGR. You need to wire in some resistors and stuff if you want to remove it. Otherwise the computer will throw error codes and the check engine lite will be on. I didn't do much else cause the heads are the choke. It runs pretty strong in it's current setup.

My buddy ported a set of E7TE heads for me and got them to flow decently on his flow bench. You'll still have the weight of an iron head though. Overall, it should be a very nice responsive motor with the cam and head work.

YJ4RoX · 06-08-2007, 06:29 AM

What kind of flow numbers did you get out of the E7's?

Did you upgrade valve springs, total 3 or 5 angle valve job, anything like that?

mondtster · 06-08-2007, 10:29 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by YJ4RoX

What kind of flow numbers did you get out of the E7's?

Did you upgrade valve springs, total 3 or 5 angle valve job, anything like that?

I will have to look at the numbers we got when I get home. The intakes were around 205 - 210 @ .500 lift though IIRC. We could have gotten higher numbers if we would have increased the amount of lift to .600 or really hogged out the ports, but this was about the best we could do and maintain good velocity for drivability.

I upgraded the springs, but didn't do a valve job. The heads I have were off of a motor that was recently rebuilt and everything was still really nice so I didn't bother working on them too much.

We estimated that the absolute maximum lift you would want to run on a stock head and valve setup with upgraded springs would be about .550 lift. The ford motorsport cam listings kind of reinforce this because they don't offer any cams for this setup that are over .552 lift. With that said, I would still be really careful if you're running a cam with lift numbers that are close to .550 lift.

My buddy estimated that the heads will likely flow more than what a naturally aspirated 302 will actually be able to use anyway unless the motor is revved to about 7k rpm. I think these heads and the FMS e303 cam should work pretty well for my application. The weight savings of aluminum heads would be nice, but not worth the expense at this point.

YJ4RoX · 06-08-2007, 10:52 AM

I totally understand about the aluminum haed expense at this point. I have a FMS B and E cam at home. Which one I try first will depend on the heads I find.

I would like to find a nice set of stock ported heads either E7's or Gt40 irons before I swap cams. I dont want to go to the gt40P's because of the plug/header issues.

I really want usable HP in a good rpm range. For wheeling we dont need the 5-7K prm power band.

Thanks for the info!

mondtster · 06-08-2007, 10:59 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by YJ4RoX

I totally understand about the aluminum haed expense at this point. I have a FMS B and E cam at home. Which one I try first will depend on the heads I find.

I would like to find a nice set of stock ported heads either E7's or Gt40 irons before I swap cams. I dont want to go to the gt40P's because of the plug/header issues.

I really want usable HP in a good rpm range. For wheeling we dont need the 5-7K prm power band.

Thanks for the info!

Want to sell one of your cams? I still need to buy one at this point.

I agree about the power band issues. I think that these ported E7 heads should work good for a truck or mild street application. If you wanted, you could send your heads to my buddy for porting. The only problem with that is that you would be sending them half way across the country.

YJ4RoX · 06-08-2007, 11:27 AM

I might take up your bud on porting if I cant find a good local shop. I am going to head to the drag strip and ask around a little.

I am going to hold on to the cams I have for now, at least until I decide which one will work best for my application.

Jump over on the www.corral.net forums and you can find FMS, B, E, &F cams for $100 shipped all day long. Sometimes cheaper depending on mileage. I dont hesistate to buy good used parts since my motor wont see 2000 miles over its entire lifespan. Since its trail only.

There are good deals to be found on those boards. Shoot I just picked up a PA reverse manual valve body for $80 shipped. Those suckers are about $250 new. You know how drag guys change stuff constantly chasing that low ET. The sell their take offs pretty cheap.

06-04-2007, 08:49 AM	#1
YJ4RoX Registered User Join Date: Oct 2000 Member # 1930 Location: Leon, WV Posts: 3,111	C4 with pass drop diff? Hey guys my new build up is in the planning stage and I am getting ready to transfer into the building process. Quick question: Can you run a pass drop diff with a C4? Two piece drive shaft required? Or is it still impossible. Is the servo/housing just to big to clear? I want to run a D300 clocked flat. I am not opposed to offsetting the engine/tranny to help with tcase/d-shaft clearance. Anyone running this combo? I have a 5.0L and I am getting a C4. I plan to run the shorty atlas adapter and a D300. I have a flipped D300 for my YJ but I want to run the non flipped D300 in the buggy. I have a pass drop D60, so running the pass drop D300 will save a ton of time/money. I can retube the D60 to drivers drop if I have too. Thanks for any info. Jeremy

06-06-2007, 06:02 PM	#13
JackA Registered User Join Date: Oct 2000 Member # 2129 Location: AZ Posts: 2,719	These pix are kinda crappy. It was difficult to get a good shot of the whole setup, but I think you'll get the drift. That's a BAMF cv joint and it's huge. The driveshaft actually angles alittle towards the driver side. When I was fitting the new motor, tranny, tcase into my buggy which originaly had Toy stuff, the front driveshaft clearance was an issue. It fit though. Attached Images

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06-04-2007, 11:29 AM	#2
YJ4RoX Registered User Join Date: Oct 2000 Member # 1930 Location: Leon, WV Posts: 3,111	Can a mod please move this to Gen4x4? I know most of the ford guys are already running drivers drop axles so this isnt a concern for them.

06-04-2007, 09:31 PM	#3
mondtster Zeus of the Sluice Join Date: Dec 2003 Member # 25349 Location: Dilworth, MN Posts: 3,447	As far as I can recall, the trans case itself shouldn't be an issue. You may run into clearance issues with the bellhousing and starter though if you plan on running a passenger drop axle. It's too bad I don't have one of my c4s at my house to take some pics to show you.

06-05-2007, 08:56 AM	#5
YJ4RoX Registered User Join Date: Oct 2000 Member # 1930 Location: Leon, WV Posts: 3,111	Thanks for the pic I think I can make it work with a 2 piece drive shaft and a little motor offset.

06-05-2007, 01:31 PM	#7
YJ4RoX Registered User Join Date: Oct 2000 Member # 1930 Location: Leon, WV Posts: 3,111	thanks sceep

06-05-2007, 03:16 PM	#8
JackA Registered User Join Date: Oct 2000 Member # 2129 Location: AZ Posts: 2,719	I am running a 5.0, C4, and a Stak 2 speed in my buggy. Everything clears fine on mine with a 1 piece front shaft. I can post some pix later if you want.

06-06-2007, 08:54 AM	#11
JackA Registered User Join Date: Oct 2000 Member # 2129 Location: AZ Posts: 2,719	The Stak is wider then the 300. I believe there's comparison dimensions between the 2 in the vendor section. The thread is about the replacement case for the 300. I'll post up some pix tonite. I forgot to post them last nite.

06-06-2007, 10:05 PM	#14
mondtster Zeus of the Sluice Join Date: Dec 2003 Member # 25349 Location: Dilworth, MN Posts: 3,447	JackA, does the driveshaft ever contact the starter or starter pocket on that setup? Or have you limited the travel so that it won't? Just curious... Also, what output shaft and adapter did you use to get that t-case on there?

06-07-2007, 06:44 AM	#15
YJ4RoX Registered User Join Date: Oct 2000 Member # 1930 Location: Leon, WV Posts: 3,111	SWEEEET PICS MAN!! Thanks very much Jack. Thats exactly what I was looking for! With the D300 clocked properly and with a little motor offset I might be able to run the one piece I have. Thanks again for the pics. Do you have a thread with your motor build and/or specs in it. I have the 5.0, I am now trying to decide how to build it. I really want some aluminum heads to shave that 50lbs, plus the polymer upper plenum that shaves another 20lbs. If I can shave the 70lb or so and get about 300hp. I would be happy. How are you liking the 5.0L so far on the trail. I know you guys crawl a lot, any warnings, insight or advice? Thanks Jeremy

06-07-2007, 08:18 AM	#16
JackA Registered User Join Date: Oct 2000 Member # 2129 Location: AZ Posts: 2,719	The driveshaft clears everything. I am usings the Advanced Adapters shorty C4 adapter. As for the motor, I don't have any write up but I may be doing one soon. My 5.0 is pretty much stock except the throttle body, mass air meter housing, and headers. It has been a great motor so far. Plenty of power and low end grunt. I do need to redo the PCV system, cause when you roll, oil can pour into the intake. For the wiring, I used a Painless harness and it was a piece of cake. I have the Ford motorsports harness that I need to sell too. I want to swap the aluminum heads on there too, but that's going to have to weight. 5.0's are great motors for buggies.

06-07-2007, 09:52 AM	#18
YJ4RoX Registered User Join Date: Oct 2000 Member # 1930 Location: Leon, WV Posts: 3,111	My plan is the atlas shorty adapter as well. From Bell to output with my short D300 the overall length will be 30.5". Thats pretty short. Thanks for the motor info, my plans are similar for the first round of the build. Try bolt on stuff first and then get into internals. 70mm TB, 24# injectors, 73mm MAF meter, etc... I may try the exploder intake and do some port matching to it. I already have a cam and the headers are in the mail. I dont want to swap cams if I dont swap heads since the heads are the choke point. Its just going to be hard to pony up the $$ for aluminum heads. Shoot thats the money for my alloy shafts & ujoints for my 60. Did you eliminate all of the EGR parts, plus the ports, etc...? I want mine bare bones, Alt & PS pump & thats it. I have a Harness and A9P ECM out of a 92 GT. I am just going to rework the stock harness. Thanks for all the great info.

06-07-2007, 01:11 PM	#19
JackA Registered User Join Date: Oct 2000 Member # 2129 Location: AZ Posts: 2,719	I eliminated everything except the EGR. You need to wire in some resistors and stuff if you want to remove it. Otherwise the computer will throw error codes and the check engine lite will be on. I didn't do much else cause the heads are the choke. It runs pretty strong in it's current setup.

06-08-2007, 06:29 AM	#21
YJ4RoX Registered User Join Date: Oct 2000 Member # 1930 Location: Leon, WV Posts: 3,111	What kind of flow numbers did you get out of the E7's? Did you upgrade valve springs, total 3 or 5 angle valve job, anything like that?

06-08-2007, 10:52 AM	#23
YJ4RoX Registered User Join Date: Oct 2000 Member # 1930 Location: Leon, WV Posts: 3,111	I totally understand about the aluminum haed expense at this point. I have a FMS B and E cam at home. Which one I try first will depend on the heads I find. I would like to find a nice set of stock ported heads either E7's or Gt40 irons before I swap cams. I dont want to go to the gt40P's because of the plug/header issues. I really want usable HP in a good rpm range. For wheeling we dont need the 5-7K prm power band. Thanks for the info!

06-08-2007, 11:27 AM	#25
YJ4RoX Registered User Join Date: Oct 2000 Member # 1930 Location: Leon, WV Posts: 3,111	I might take up your bud on porting if I cant find a good local shop. I am going to head to the drag strip and ask around a little. I am going to hold on to the cams I have for now, at least until I decide which one will work best for my application. Jump over on the www.corral.net forums and you can find FMS, B, E, &F cams for $100 shipped all day long. Sometimes cheaper depending on mileage. I dont hesistate to buy good used parts since my motor wont see 2000 miles over its entire lifespan. Since its trail only. There are good deals to be found on those boards. Shoot I just picked up a PA reverse manual valve body for $80 shipped. Those suckers are about $250 new. You know how drag guys change stuff constantly chasing that low ET. The sell their take offs pretty cheap.