SAS - Shackle in the front or the back

[TreeFrog169]

I searched on this and read a few things but am still undecided. Do I want to do the standard shackle reversal or do I want to do a shackle in the front???

I have never wheeled a rig with a shackle reversal. I have always had a Sammy with the shackle in the front. The only down fall I had there was the shackle would hit first. This should not be a problem if I go this way on my toy due to tire size and spring pack.

I guess my real question is which way as more pros than cons.


PROS
Shackle in the front:
Tires are less likely to get into the firewall.
Might move front axle farther forward for better approach.
A little cheaper for me to build.

Shackle reversal:
Smother on road (but it is going to be a trailer queen and never see roads).
Easier to fab (just buy a kit and weld it on).

I will just ignore the CONS for now.

So what does every one think? Which way would be better?

At the moment I am leaning towards the shackle in the front.

[rockota]

Seriously?

[Lord Orange]

lets reverse engineer the toyota. I have a scout II with the shakles in the front, and a 85 4runner with the shakles in the rear. Lets just say the scout is parked more often than the 4runner. Hell with it just coilover lift with a4 link.

[Bones]

Originally Posted by Lord Orange

lets reverse engineer the toyota. I have a scout II with the shakles in the front, and a 85 4runner with the shakles in the rear. Lets just say the scout is parked more often than the 4runner. Hell with it just coilover lift with a4 link.

It's parked because of the shackle location or because it's an IH?

They both work, both have +'s and -'s. IMO the biggest issue with shackle up front is easy main leafe bendage. If you can drive, you can avoid this to some extent.

[Yellowtoytruck]

I rarely see people using shackles in the front instead of the rear. I would stick to how Toyota made them. They were right.

[surlynkid]

a few of us went off the beaten path and went with shackles forward. honestly though, i would have put them in the back if not for the odd frame width of the T-100.

[Lord Orange]

Originally Posted by Bones

It's parked because of the shackle location or because it's an IH?

Gas money, and toyota's is cheaper. But I keep modding the 4runner. Yes I still have your tailgate, the f-toy is coming. Can I sell it back.

[Bones]

Originally Posted by Lord Orange

Gas money, and toyota's is cheaper. But I keep modding the 4runner. Yes I still have your tailgate, the f-toy is coming. Can I sell it back.

HAHAHA! Why do you still have that thing? Hell no I don't want it back unlees it will fit on a Suzuki Vitara

[Wilson]

http://www.pirate4x4.com/forum/showt...orward+shackle

For a trailer queen, I'd go for it...hell I'd go for it just to try something different. When I was asking, no one who had gone that route was regretting it. Build it, let these naysayers with their store bought kits keep 'em.

[luvmeye22refi]

Make sure you build anti-inversion shackles, there is a very good reason that almost all the full lift kits for Landcruisers have them and you don't see them on Mini-trucks with the shackle in the rear. I know from personal experience with my old FJ60. With a shackle in the front it is very easy to bend front springs when dropping off a ledge at full droop. The earth just kind of wants to force the whole spring/axle right back at you and if the shackle is even slightly inverted it's just going to fawk shit up on you when you get a lot of weight on that spring. Not to mention, if you have a decent length shackle, it can become quite the rockfinder.

[Landslide]

Doesnt matter if it's in the front or back for a rock anchor - I beat the fawk out of them and bent my leaf springs several times running them in the orig rear location.

On my D60 swap I moved them up front for several reasons over reusing them in the rear.

I had to modify them any way for width.

I wanted to lower my ride height and by Frenching in the spring perches into the frame I was able to drop it over two inches.

Drive shaft travel is nearly eliminated.

Easier to build a anti-wrap bar now and it's still on the to do list.

EDIT: I also needed the springs in this angle to help with my pinion angle - not about to rotate my knuckles until I link out on the buggy project.

Beef the shackles and they will take pretty good punishment - I bent them in the rear location anyway.

Only draw back so far is DW is more pronounced - I'm going to run a pan bar for now to keep it under control - this is until everything gets pulled for the buggy project (cept the 4 banger and trans)

If it's a DD then maybe keep them in the rear.

[ErikB]

Originally Posted by Yellowtoytruck

I would stick to how Toyota made them. They were right.

This is the most retarded thing I've read here in a while.

For one thing, Toyota did it both ways!

For another thing, just because Toyota did it one way, doesn't mean it was "right," or the "best" way. They also did push-pull steering. Is that the "right" way too? That is only one example of many I could think of!

[91advrunner]

If you like have a good back id go with rear. in the front the suspension is very harsh on the road or not because when it compresses it want to go forward against the direction the bumps are coming making for a bumping ride. rear shackles are the way to go. trailer queen thing is bs

[montezuma]

Originally Posted by TreeFrog169

The only down fall I had there was the shackle would hit first. This should not be a problem if I go this way on my toy due to tire size and spring pack.

I'm curious what springs and tire size you are going to be running, that would push the front face of the tire out past the shackle?

[jtr]

If it is trail rig I would go shackle front to limit driveline problems. I did SAS on a Nissan and did it the "Toyota" way and it worked, but to get the driveline to work properly it would has cost a lot. My Jeep is spring over and shakle front and drives fine, no drivelines coming un-corked. It does drive like a Jeep and does not track as well as my SASed Nissan. I guess it depends on the intended purpose of the rig.

[numtel]

I don't have a shackle reversal on my fj40 and don't plan on doing one. It drives 80mph and works great on the trail. I don't have to worry about my driveshaft separating. Take a look at this
http://www.ih8mud.com/tech/shackle-reason.php

[Landslide]

Originally Posted by 91advrunner

If you like have a good back id go with rear. in the front the suspension is very harsh on the road or not because when it compresses it want to go forward against the direction the bumps are coming making for a bumping ride. rear shackles are the way to go. trailer queen thing is bs

WTF? trailer queen thing is BS

I noticed a smoother ride and all my passengers notice it as well with the shackles up front on my "trailer Queen" which does see some high speed bumpy roads.

My 1996 Ford F-250 Stroker has shackles up front and it rides like a cadillac.

So you can take your e-web theory and stuff it where the sun don't shine.

[Wilson]

Originally Posted by Landslide

WTF? trailer queen thing is BS

I noticed a smoother ride and all my passengers notice it as well with the shackles up front on my "trailer Queen" which does see some high speed bumpy roads.

My 1996 Ford F-250 Stroker has shackles up front and it rides like a cadillac.

So you can take your e-web theory and stuff it where the sun don't shine.

I bet he's never done it eitherr

[Josho]

i am purchasing a sami that has a shackle reversal done, and i am returning it to shackles in the front. i have researched this alot, watched ben holloway's old yota build, looking at the differences wheeling with friends that have both, and i want the shackles in the front. i want the truck lower, i want a simple driveline, and i want my tires out of the fenders. i have heard good arguments from both sides, but i wished i would have gone with shackles in the front when i did the SAS on my tacoma. just my opinion. good luck.

holley

[TreeFrog169]

I like to do different things and deviating from the norm is what I think I want to do. Shackle in the front is the route I will be going. My springs are a mil wrap and with the offset spring pads the tires should be flush with the front of the spring eye, so I think I will be OK.

Worst case I don't like it and change it or link or something. Fabrication doesn't scare me and what's wrong with trying something a little off the beaten path. It is how new stuff is found.

Now I just need to get of my butt and go build it in my 100 plus degree shop.





And one more question:


How much lift do I need to fit big mud tires to drive on the street. J/K

Thanks for those that good info for this topic.

Off Topic--- Bones when did you leave KC?

[FordFascist]

Shackle forward can ride just as well as shackle reversal from my observations. Shackle reversal is a pain in the ass if you have a shitty pinion angle (like on a Waggy 44) as flexing the suspension causes the pinion to rotate downwards.

Aside from the pinion rotating downwards, your axle moves away from the transfercase under suspension unloading which necessitates a long travel (receiver tube if you're a man) driveshaft.

To further the argument against shackle reversal, your front end wants to dive under braking (really shitty going down ledges) and to lift under acceleration (equally as shitty on ledges).

Shackle forward's downfall is mainly that your shackles are exposed to rocks (easily solved) and that your springs are more likely to bend if you hit something hard. The bending spring part isn't too hard to combat if you military wrap the springs and run good clamps on the frame portion of the springs.


Oh, and my Toyota is still shackle reversal.

[a2b]

if you want to do shackle reversal, then build your shackles where they have a stop so they cant bend all the way back under the rig.

a good thing about shackle reversal is you may not have to spend any money on drivelines....that is, if you are the type of person who would do that.