14 Bolt hubs.. not the same

bighair · 08-09-2007, 10:36 PM

Hey guy's,

I've read the bible over and over again, and I've searched and haven't found anything on this.

I got 2 14 Bolts. 1 from a 1Ton Van and the other from a 70's era 4x4 crue cab.. I don't have pics yet as it's late and don't have my camera but.

I noticed when swapping the hubs there was a 1" difference in the mounting flange.. didn't see this written anywhere but thought that's ok, I must of missed it. no biggie and I can use the 2" shorter to match my front 60.

After rebuilding it and assembly, I noticed after "torquing" the spindle nuts, I couldn't get the bearing preload right. As tight as I could put it but the hub would still slide on the spindle. thought maybe I was just tired and missed something, took it appart and looked at it again.. all is well.. checked the bearings(maybe they weren't seated properly, the race wasn't seated properly?) nope not that either.. I started to examine the spindles.. come to realise, the spindle on the van housing is 1/2" shorter then the CnC. I measured with my caliper and the Van housing is 120.59 and the CnC measures at 130.30.. that's a difference of 10.29(approx 1/2")

I read and searched and found nothing on this.. maybe my query's are wrong. dunno.. Has anyone else run into this? I would really like to keep the 2" narrower as it matches my front and was unsure of what handeling characteristics would be to be wider in the rear then the front? I thought to keep these hubs, I could run 1/2" spacer between the keyed washer and the bearing to help set the preload? this a good Idea or bad? too bootyfab?

my other option is just to rebuild the other original hubs for the CNC and run those and be 2" wider in the rear.. hubs are in real bad shape and I'm runnin a tight deadline trying to finish this for a buddy before he gets back from afghanistan.. kinda a surprise so I don't wanna miss the deadline..

what do you think? flame away if necessary..
thanks..

Tim84K10 · 08-10-2007, 03:55 AM

Van axles are wider...for everything, even 10 bolts.

Do you have a cab and chassis or a SRW 14 bolt? They are not the same. C&C is MUCH narrower.

bighair · 08-10-2007, 05:12 AM

sorry the van and SRW.. axle width I'm not worried about.. the difference that I'm talking about is in the spindles.. meaning that the hubs on these 2 are not interchangeable without some sort of spacer to set bearing preload..

camoTJ · 08-10-2007, 06:15 AM

it explains all of that in the 14 bolt bible

bighair · 08-10-2007, 07:00 AM

I must of missed it.. back to the book...

bighair · 08-10-2007, 07:26 AM

I just read through again.. nothing about spindle length but it does mention possibility of some not being the same.. This I understand. just curious if others have had the same issue and what was done to resolve it. If I machine a 1/2" spacer to sit betwee the bearing and the washer it should do the trick, however are there any unforseen problems with this that I might be over looking? I'm thinking as long as the proper preload is on the bearing I should be good no?

87JeepWrangler · 08-10-2007, 07:50 AM

i am un-aware of any differences in the spindle lengths. was the hub that was on that spindle also different?

i see no problem maching a 1/2" spacer as you mentioned. i would think that would do the trick. depending on where you put the spacer, that could make the 'bolt-on' disc kits not fit, yes?

bighair · 08-10-2007, 08:54 AM

cool yeah..

There were no differences in the hub other then the mating surface of the wheel which was 1" difference per hub..

I'm basically machinig 2 big washers to match the OD of the spindle so I have full contact surface of the bearing. the disc brake setup I made.. no bolt ons.. the spacer fits between the bearing and the key washer.. I'll post up some pics of the spindles and the spacers once I'm done and have a little time..

thanks for the input guys.. I basically just wanted a reassurance that the spacer wasn't too bootyfab.. also figured it would give an option to search for later use if someone runs into the same problem..

the van axle is from an 80's year van(didn't pull it it was sitting next to it.. has the 8 ribs.. the axle I'm using was from a 70s era SRW crue cab.. not the C&C which as noted above much shorter..

JJSBADYJ · 08-10-2007, 12:45 PM

I may be wrong but isnt there difference between a 3/4 ton FF and a 1 ton FF? I remember getting into a conversation about 14 bolts and this was mentioned. I dont have the PM but it was a problem much like mentioned here. the hubs on the 3/4 ton were a little different and didnt seat right on the 1 ton axle.

JJ

Tim84K10 · 08-10-2007, 12:56 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by JJSBADYJ

I may be wrong but isnt there difference between a 3/4 ton FF and a 1 ton FF? I remember getting into a conversation about 14 bolts and this was mentioned. I dont have the PM but it was a problem much like mentioned here. the hubs on the 3/4 ton were a little different and didnt seat right on the 1 ton axle.

JJ

The rear brakes on a 1 ton are 3.5" wide instead of 2.5". The leaf spring pad spacing is different by 1" on each side. Other than that, they're the same.

Most of you are throwing out the disc brakes and the leaf spring pads anyway, so this is a non-issue.

bighair · 08-10-2007, 01:12 PM

well in Bills article, it says " for every "fact" I shall present, I know there's at least one person out there, maybe many more, who claim they own or know of exceptions." and "Use the data with caution - "your mielage may vary""

hehe, well I found the one that was different and have an exception. lol. also should of used more caution as stated.. hehe, just caused more work that's all.

Honestly I'm not sure if the SRW was 1Ton or 3/4Ton.. I never pulled it either was told it was 1Ton. either way, the hubs are about 1/2" longer as well to match the spindle. from what I can see tho, the bearings to seat properly on the spindle with the spacer I made. I'm gonna machine a 1/2" spacer for the shaft and going to use 1/2" ;longer retaining bolts. pain in the ass to make when you don't have all the tools, but torch and grinder can do wonders with patience.. I'm gonna keep the 2nd set of hubs just in case I run into problems I can swap them out again..

guidolyons · 08-10-2007, 02:24 PM

Why are you swapping hubs? The 1" difference in trackwidth? You have both axles why not run the one with the hubs it came with?

Or am I missing something? It doesn't make sense to machine a 1/2" spacer if you have the correct parts?

94toytruck · 08-10-2007, 08:34 PM

I have 1 ton C+C hubs on a 3/4ton 14bolt FF to narrow it for my toy. I had no issue's.

bighair · 08-21-2007, 11:48 AM

well to add to the post a bit more..

I ended up just swapping the hubs for the originals again.. track width wasn't as much of an issue as I thought..

as per this setup, I have some pics of the spindle and differences.. will post them as soon as I can get them of the camera..

The problem was that the spindle from the van 14bolt is shorter and the SRW one I have in the Jeep. basically the inner bearing is not seating against the back of the spindle against the journal where the seal rests.. so it is not getting any preload or seating into the race..

the outter bearing is causing this as the journal where the outter bearing sits is shorter on the SRW hub then on the van hub.. when I post pics you'll see the differences.

Shitty thing is with the other hubs, I had to cut off the weld on disc brackets and reweld them on. it's done now and good to go.. just wanted to add an update. and I will also post the pics of the hubs with measurements.

08-09-2007, 10:36 PM	#1
bighair Newbie Join Date: May 2003 Member # 19695 Posts: 84	14 Bolt hubs.. not the same Hey guy's, I've read the bible over and over again, and I've searched and haven't found anything on this. I got 2 14 Bolts. 1 from a 1Ton Van and the other from a 70's era 4x4 crue cab.. I don't have pics yet as it's late and don't have my camera but. I noticed when swapping the hubs there was a 1" difference in the mounting flange.. didn't see this written anywhere but thought that's ok, I must of missed it. no biggie and I can use the 2" shorter to match my front 60. After rebuilding it and assembly, I noticed after "torquing" the spindle nuts, I couldn't get the bearing preload right. As tight as I could put it but the hub would still slide on the spindle. thought maybe I was just tired and missed something, took it appart and looked at it again.. all is well.. checked the bearings(maybe they weren't seated properly, the race wasn't seated properly?) nope not that either.. I started to examine the spindles.. come to realise, the spindle on the van housing is 1/2" shorter then the CnC. I measured with my caliper and the Van housing is 120.59 and the CnC measures at 130.30.. that's a difference of 10.29(approx 1/2") I read and searched and found nothing on this.. maybe my query's are wrong. dunno.. Has anyone else run into this? I would really like to keep the 2" narrower as it matches my front and was unsure of what handeling characteristics would be to be wider in the rear then the front? I thought to keep these hubs, I could run 1/2" spacer between the keyed washer and the bearing to help set the preload? this a good Idea or bad? too bootyfab? my other option is just to rebuild the other original hubs for the CNC and run those and be 2" wider in the rear.. hubs are in real bad shape and I'm runnin a tight deadline trying to finish this for a buddy before he gets back from afghanistan.. kinda a surprise so I don't wanna miss the deadline.. what do you think? flame away if necessary.. thanks.. __________________ 93 YJ 4.0L XJ rears leafs Waggy fronts HPD60 front D60 rear Custom 231/D300 doubler cable shifted twin stick 37" Pitbull rockers work in progress

08-10-2007, 05:12 AM	#3
bighair Newbie Join Date: May 2003 Member # 19695 Posts: 84	sorry the van and SRW.. axle width I'm not worried about.. the difference that I'm talking about is in the spindles.. meaning that the hubs on these 2 are not interchangeable without some sort of spacer to set bearing preload.. __________________ 93 YJ 4.0L XJ rears leafs Waggy fronts HPD60 front D60 rear Custom 231/D300 doubler cable shifted twin stick 37" Pitbull rockers work in progress

08-10-2007, 07:00 AM	#5
bighair Newbie Join Date: May 2003 Member # 19695 Posts: 84	I must of missed it.. back to the book... __________________ 93 YJ 4.0L XJ rears leafs Waggy fronts HPD60 front D60 rear Custom 231/D300 doubler cable shifted twin stick 37" Pitbull rockers work in progress

08-10-2007, 07:26 AM	#6
bighair Newbie Join Date: May 2003 Member # 19695 Posts: 84	I just read through again.. nothing about spindle length but it does mention possibility of some not being the same.. This I understand. just curious if others have had the same issue and what was done to resolve it. If I machine a 1/2" spacer to sit betwee the bearing and the washer it should do the trick, however are there any unforseen problems with this that I might be over looking? I'm thinking as long as the proper preload is on the bearing I should be good no? __________________ 93 YJ 4.0L XJ rears leafs Waggy fronts HPD60 front D60 rear Custom 231/D300 doubler cable shifted twin stick 37" Pitbull rockers work in progress

08-10-2007, 07:50 AM	#7
87JeepWrangler Rock God Join Date: Sep 2002 Member # 13959 Location: Pa Posts: 2,481	i am un-aware of any differences in the spindle lengths. was the hub that was on that spindle also different? i see no problem maching a 1/2" spacer as you mentioned. i would think that would do the trick. depending on where you put the spacer, that could make the 'bolt-on' disc kits not fit, yes? __________________ -rob

08-10-2007, 03:55 AM	#2
Tim84K10 Banned Join Date: Nov 2003 Member # 24704 Location: Illinois Posts: 4,443	Van axles are wider...for everything, even 10 bolts. Do you have a cab and chassis or a SRW 14 bolt? They are not the same. C&C is MUCH narrower.

08-10-2007, 06:15 AM	#4
camoTJ Wheeler Join Date: Oct 2004 Member # 36286 Location: Crawlorado Posts: 158	it explains all of that in the 14 bolt bible

08-10-2007, 08:54 AM	#8
bighair Newbie Join Date: May 2003 Member # 19695 Posts: 84	cool yeah.. There were no differences in the hub other then the mating surface of the wheel which was 1" difference per hub.. I'm basically machinig 2 big washers to match the OD of the spindle so I have full contact surface of the bearing. the disc brake setup I made.. no bolt ons.. the spacer fits between the bearing and the key washer.. I'll post up some pics of the spindles and the spacers once I'm done and have a little time.. thanks for the input guys.. I basically just wanted a reassurance that the spacer wasn't too bootyfab.. also figured it would give an option to search for later use if someone runs into the same problem.. the van axle is from an 80's year van(didn't pull it it was sitting next to it.. has the 8 ribs.. the axle I'm using was from a 70s era SRW crue cab.. not the C&C which as noted above much shorter.. __________________ 93 YJ 4.0L XJ rears leafs Waggy fronts HPD60 front D60 rear Custom 231/D300 doubler cable shifted twin stick 37" Pitbull rockers work in progress

08-10-2007, 12:45 PM	#9
JJSBADYJ Registered User Join Date: Oct 2002 Member # 14155 Location: Modesto, CA Posts: 1,456	I may be wrong but isnt there difference between a 3/4 ton FF and a 1 ton FF? I remember getting into a conversation about 14 bolts and this was mentioned. I dont have the PM but it was a problem much like mentioned here. the hubs on the 3/4 ton were a little different and didnt seat right on the 1 ton axle. JJ __________________ J & W Auto Wreckers 8626 Antelope No Rd Antelope CA, 95843 Call us toll free: 800-924-9732

08-10-2007, 01:12 PM	#11
bighair Newbie Join Date: May 2003 Member # 19695 Posts: 84	well in Bills article, it says " for every "fact" I shall present, I know there's at least one person out there, maybe many more, who claim they own or know of exceptions." and "Use the data with caution - "your mielage may vary"" hehe, well I found the one that was different and have an exception. lol. also should of used more caution as stated.. hehe, just caused more work that's all. Honestly I'm not sure if the SRW was 1Ton or 3/4Ton.. I never pulled it either was told it was 1Ton. either way, the hubs are about 1/2" longer as well to match the spindle. from what I can see tho, the bearings to seat properly on the spindle with the spacer I made. I'm gonna machine a 1/2" spacer for the shaft and going to use 1/2" ;longer retaining bolts. pain in the ass to make when you don't have all the tools, but torch and grinder can do wonders with patience.. I'm gonna keep the 2nd set of hubs just in case I run into problems I can swap them out again.. __________________ 93 YJ 4.0L XJ rears leafs Waggy fronts HPD60 front D60 rear Custom 231/D300 doubler cable shifted twin stick 37" Pitbull rockers work in progress

08-10-2007, 08:34 PM	#13
94toytruck Registered User Join Date: Apr 2003 Member # 18614 Location: Eastern PA Posts: 2,084	I have 1 ton C+C hubs on a 3/4ton 14bolt FF to narrow it for my toy. I had no issue's. __________________ Eric 94 toyota truck, well it started as one.... When exactly is it a truggy www.rightcoast4x4.com www.hillsidecustoms.com ΜΟΛΩΝ ΛΑΒΕ Last edited by 94toytruck; 08-10-2007 at 08:36 PM.

08-21-2007, 11:48 AM	#14
bighair Newbie Join Date: May 2003 Member # 19695 Posts: 84	well to add to the post a bit more.. I ended up just swapping the hubs for the originals again.. track width wasn't as much of an issue as I thought.. as per this setup, I have some pics of the spindle and differences.. will post them as soon as I can get them of the camera.. The problem was that the spindle from the van 14bolt is shorter and the SRW one I have in the Jeep. basically the inner bearing is not seating against the back of the spindle against the journal where the seal rests.. so it is not getting any preload or seating into the race.. the outter bearing is causing this as the journal where the outter bearing sits is shorter on the SRW hub then on the van hub.. when I post pics you'll see the differences. Shitty thing is with the other hubs, I had to cut off the weld on disc brackets and reweld them on. it's done now and good to go.. just wanted to add an update. and I will also post the pics of the hubs with measurements. __________________ 93 YJ 4.0L XJ rears leafs Waggy fronts HPD60 front D60 rear Custom 231/D300 doubler cable shifted twin stick 37" Pitbull rockers work in progress

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