Eldorado DEIS, wheeled oversnow travel

[Brewster2]

Hi folks, I hope you don't mind a dirtbiker posting here (I do have a Tacoma 4X4). I belong to CERA, one of the parties in the law suite against the Eldorado NF.

In the Eldorado NF DEIS, there are entries concerning wheeled over snow travel being allowed on snow depths of 12 or 24" of snow.
For those of you that do travel in the Eldorado NF during the snow season, I have a suggestion/question that you may want to follow up on in your comments on the DEIS.

1. How would you get to the required minimum depth of snow? When I've ridden in the winter months, the snow level increases gradually.

2. If many of the access roads are closed during the winter, how do you access the snow?

Keep informed and active

Ride on
Brewster
CERA...assistant LAO

[WLDWUN]

with the preferd alternative D, you would need 24" of snow and no ground contact. the only way to get to a place with 24" is to drive up a street leagal road in the snow and then unload an OHV to one of the side roads that would have 24" on it. for a dirt bike it isnt going to happen. sorry for the good new

[randii]

Rick nailed it with fewer words -- it is damn hard to fathom, the way it is written.

Street Legal:
* If you start on a dirt road, you can't get from no inches of snow to whatever the specified minimum depth of snow is without a jump or a parachute drop, since snow generally increases depth gradually.
* If you enter the forest via pavement (most do), then you just need to make sure you leave the pavement at a depth greater than whatever the specified minimum depth of snow is.

Green-stickered OHV:
* Same thing as above -- you can't start on a dirt road without going airborne.
* If you enter the forest legally via pavement, then your green-stickered OHV is wheels-up in transport mode. You're legal if you unload in snow with a depth greater than whatever the specified minimum depth of snow. (This screws you if you unload at a low-altitude staging area, and want to take dirt roads to higher altitude, with less than whatever the specified minimum depth of snow is)

General comment: I can just imagine watching the poor Forest Personnel dig down to the substrate to identify what the road surface is so that they can assess what the appropriate depth of snow should be so that they can then measure upward to determine whether I am legal -- now imagine that across the whole of the miles of tracks behind me. Sadly, the poor Forest Service guy out there won't be the Forest Service guy that created these lousy, essentially unimplementable rules.

BTW, Brewster -- thankyou for your involvement with the enduro riders' group. It is GREAT to see different forms of motorized recreation working together, more and more often! Not only do we 'not mind' you here, we 'welcome' you!

I am commenting the heck out of the 'wet weather restriction' section of the DEIS, since it is tough to understand, will be tough to enforce, and will make it even tougher to recreate legally. Here are some more questions:
* If I start on legal-depths now, what happens in areas with localized melting? (Do I need to go back airborne?)
* Without asking for cross-country travel, is their greater latitude to the enforced trail prism width? (sometimes it creates less impact to the resource to dogleg adjacent to the trail, on top of ten feet of snow, than it does to sidehill or dig deeply on the actual trail).
* If paved roads are deeper than whatever the specified minimum depth of snow is, can they be defaulted to 'combined use' since few forest roads are actually 'maintained.' Does this vary based on whether they are Forest roads or County roads?

Randii

[randii]

Personally, I look forward to calling the Alpine Ski Patrol when I'm snow-locked (or whatever the snow version of land-locked may be?) and need 'rescue,' having legally entered the forest at whatever the specified minimum depth of snow is, and then experienced snow-melt sufficient to prevent my exit from the forest, in the fullest legal interpretation of the rules.

Randii

[88bigvan]

Senario: If the snow depth requirement is implimented and all the planets are alligned correctly, allowing me access to a route that just meets the snow depth requirement, should I assume I can only make fresh tracks as my mode of transportation will compact the snow and therfore cause me to be in violation if I choose to return on the same route?
Will there be seperate requirements and formula's based on wieght of vehicle, footprint and expected snow compaction?

I'll have more weight if I'm packing in a washing machine to use as a blind for spotted owl hunting

The above statement is complete fiction in a lame attempt at sarcastic humor.
Dissemination, distribution or copying of this e-mail/post or the information
> herein by anyone other than the intended recipient is prohibited.

[RUBICONJEEP]

Originally Posted by 88bigvan

Senario: If the snow depth requirement is implimented and all the planets are alligned correctly, allowing me access to a route that just meets the snow depth requirement, should I assume I can only make fresh tracks as my mode of transportation will compact the snow and therfore cause me to be in violation if I choose to return on the same route?
Will there be seperate requirements and formula's based on wieght of vehicle, footprint and expected snow compaction?

I'll have more weight if I'm packing in a washing machine to use as a blind for spotted owl hunting

The above statement is complete fiction in a lame attempt at sarcastic humor.
Dissemination, distribution or copying of this e-mail/post or the information
> herein by anyone other than the intended recipient is prohibited.

Great comments and sarcasm!

Hmmm, so seasonal closures during winter because of lack of snow (specifically 24"), and then seasonal closures during the summer due to fire danger.

They've figured out an alternative way to screw us no matter what!

[RUBICONJEEP]

Originally Posted by randii

Personally, I look forward to calling the Alpine Ski Patrol when I'm snow-locked (or whatever the snow version of land-locked may be?) and need 'rescue,' having legally entered the forest at whatever the specified minimum depth of snow is, and then experienced snow-melt sufficient to prevent my exit from the forest, in the fullest legal interpretation of the rules.

Randii

Probably just a matter of time before they come up with a vehicle weight limit for snow travel! There will be an entirely separate report done for snow impaction and how it affects the pressure points on the rocks and dirt.

[atvobsession]

Is that depth before, or after the weight of my vehicle squished the snow?

[RUBICONJEEP]

Knowing the ENF and the EIS reports they like to write, they will do both. But they will capitalize on the "after" snow depth(in an entire chapter about 450 pages). You will get out to where you want to go, then have to wait until it starts to snow again before driving back. Or like Randii said, you'll have to contact the Ski Patrol for Rescue. But then you run the risk of getting a fine because while you were waiting for the rescue, the snow under your vehicle has melted significantly!