land use/public lands...lets just buy our own land

[Whaley Enterprises]

With so much time,money and energy focused on keeping public lands open may it be better to just form a non-profit group that could buy land to use for wheeling...granted there are some trails that would be nice not to lose, but keeping them open at what cost, I just wonder if it would be wiser to used our dollars and time in a different way to provide us a place to go.. instead to wasted time and dollars in pissing match with the greenies

anyone else have any ideas?

[jeeptj19992001]

it worked so well for kyle at paragon. even his new place is getting shut down. we just have a hobbie that the public does not want. it's almost like shooting ranges.

[fullygruntled]

Going to have to agree with you. 'Tis mildly shitty, but necessary.

The big exception would be the state and federally-owned "public lands" that are currently being fenced off for pretty much any public use. Those are a bit harder to buy, so we may as well put the effort into keeping them useable.

[DRM]

Wooly's Off Road
Wheelin' In The Country
Gray Rock
River Rock
Windrock
Mayhem Off Road
Superlift ORV
Chinquipin Off-Road Park

All are private owned and run off road parks that I am aware of here in the South/SE.

[Whaley Enterprises]

yall are missing the point....comercial parks are great but i was thinking more along the lines of offroad parks own and managed not for profit but for recreation and run by some type of national organization that we fourwheelers need to create to pool our resources...

[fullygruntled]

Guess the NE and CA are just phooked, then.

[fullygruntled]

Originally Posted by Whaley Enterprises

yall are missing the point....comercial parks are great but i was thinking more along the lines of offroad parks own and managed not for profit but for recreation and run by some type of national organization that we fourwheelers need to create to pool our resources...

That's kind of what we're developing at Crozet. Granted, it's a fairly small swath of land, but it's a very bouldery small swath of land.

Everything starts small.

Originally Posted by jeeptj19992001

it worked so well for kyle at paragon. even his new place is getting shut down. we just have a hobbie that the public does not want. it's almost like shooting ranges.

Getting shut down? Pap2 IS shut down already.

[jeeptj19992001]

Originally Posted by ScottFJ40 V2.0

Getting shut down? Pap2 IS shut down already.

yepper, "Temporary closed"

township zoning crap

[preach]

In NH there is ZERO public land for vehicles 1000# and heavier.

That said the Northeast Association of 4x4 Clubs has thousands of acres on private land available.

More land than the 2 volunteers can cut trails on.

http://www.nea4wd.org/

[vetteboy79]

Originally Posted by jeeptj19992001

it worked so well for kyle at paragon. even his new place is getting shut down. we just have a hobbie that the public does not want. it's almost like shooting ranges.

Right, because Kyle owned that land.

I think you just missed Otter's point.

[fullygruntled]

he "kind of" hit the point, in that some places can be closed down due to "zoning violations" or similar mafioso tactics, especially in more pink n' green states.

Not that it's not worth trying

[gotmuddy]

Originally Posted by Whaley Enterprises

yall are missing the point....comercial parks are great but i was thinking more along the lines of offroad parks own and managed not for profit but for recreation and run by some type of national organization that we fourwheelers need to create to pool our resources...

Your not gonna get people to donate many thousands of dollars with no return on the investment. I dont know if you have noticed....but land ISN'T cheap. You have to be able to make money to do it.

www.bricks4x4farm.com
www.flatnasty.net
www.ORVpark.com

There are a few more around here that I can't think of at the moment.

[ironpig70]

even then you can be shut down due to zoning laws and if its private somebody owns it and then theres the whole liability issue.

[TEX]

It really is something that'll have to be considered eventually. The problem with individually owned parks is that it's VERY expensive & there's little return on investment. Seems to me Area BFE is a pretty good example of wheelers getting together and saying, "screw it, the greenies aren't getting THIS place".

[gotmuddy]

Originally Posted by TEX

It really is something that'll have to be considered eventually. The problem with individually owned parks is that it's VERY expensive & there's little return on investment. Seems to me Area BFE is a pretty good example of wheelers getting together and saying, "screw it, the greenies aren't getting THIS place".

The return is more than some of these places would get raising cattle. The biggest offroad park that I know of(mud creek in Jacksonville, TX) was a cattle ranch. They rake money in hand over fist.

[fullygruntled]

Originally Posted by gotmuddy

Your not gonna get people to donate many thousands of dollars with no return on the investment. I dont know if you have noticed....but land ISN'T cheap. You have to be able to make money to do it.

BUT, if you can get enough people to join a NFP-organization and front, say, $100-$200 per year apiece for unlimited wheeling at their leisure, you may very well be able to pay the note on a patch of unimproved land. After that land is paid for, buy another, and another, etc.

[gotmuddy]

Thats a great idea. Another idea would be something like Suburban Estates in FL where you own a portion of the park and use it at your leisure.

the problem is that the more land you want the more people you need, then you have to make sure the land you buy is unrestricted(read: in the middle of nowhere) and that the neighbors would be ok with it. Pool Ranch in Athens, TX has pissed their neighbors off and are probably gonna get shut down.

[jeeptj19992001]

i would pay a 100.00 year for a place to wheel.
i already do that so i can shoot.
what another membership......

[JeepJay]

Originally Posted by fullygruntled

BUT, if you can get enough people to join a NFP-organization and front, say, $100-$200 per year apiece for unlimited wheeling at their leisure, you may very well be able to pay the note on a patch of unimproved land. After that land is paid for, buy another, and another, etc.

That's exactly what we've been doing in JonFund for years and we are really close right now to owning our own property for the club.

It really seems to be the only way to go for the future.

[0ILBURNER]

All you'd have to do is form a shell company & call it something like "The Nature Conservancy" (that ones already taken) and spend some money on advertising that you're all about saving the trees. The donations would start rolling in.

Then choose certain out-of-the-way areas & cut a few 'access trails'.
Just make sure your charter doesn't disallow them

[0ILBURNER]

PS: We are Obviously a 'minority' here, why can't the Federal Government kick in some funds &/or donate some land?

[TEX]

Originally Posted by gotmuddy

The return is more than some of these places would get raising cattle. The biggest offroad park that I know of(mud creek in Jacksonville, TX) was a cattle ranch. They rake money in hand over fist.

The biggest problem with cost vs. dividends is that the best chance of drawing in people like crazy is in areas close to urban centers. But, that land is WAY more expensive than stuff out in the sticks, where you'll have a hard time drawing in clientele.

I watched one of these things ALMOST happen a couple years ago. This place was PERFECT. Hundreds of acres of steep, rocky terrain. A mile of spring-fed river frontage, existing modern campground on the grounds, lots of flat, open space for parking & competition events, etc, etc. But, by the time the math was all done, they needed about every square inch of the place to be bumper-to-bumper with wheelers every single weekend for it to pay for itself based on the ORV Park revenue.

Now, I think where THAT place could have succeeded would have been to take advantage of the money-making opportunities the River & RV Campground provided, letting the ORV portion sort of tag along for the ride. And maybe that's something we as a group should look at. Who else could we team up with (who else with $$$) to make this work? What if the ORV park was also a trophy deer destination? Would the ORV'ers be willing to hand the park over to the hunters for a month each Fall? If it has river frontage, what about a canoe livery, or build some lakes for fishing?


TEX

[Rat~Man]

Time Share concept. Money payment on the land in deductible mortgage form. HOA type organizations controlling management and taxes, fees etc.



Maybe?


Doing something that included horse trails, camping, fishing and hunting would grab a wider base of people. All of which are slowly getting crowded out of existence.

[mummac]

Originally Posted by DRM

Wooly's Off Road
Wheelin' In The Country
Gray Rock
River Rock
Windrock
Mayhem Off Road
Superlift ORV
Chinquipin Off-Road Park

All are private owned and run off road parks that I am aware of here in the South/SE.

Thanks for the list.