Trail Sanitation (Toilets)

[Jeepndel]

Trail sanitation is a big issue on the Rubicon Trail right now. We just lost Spider Lake area for four months, basically because of it, health hazards and people tearing up the area (driving everywhere).

But for trail sanitation, there is one answer: PACK IT OUT!

What FOTR recommends is a portable toilet (your choice), used with Poo Powder, the special enzyme dry powder that comes from ThePett toilet folks. I like my Pett toilet and privacy tent and take it every where. But the Outback Pack (cardboard) is a cheaper (shorter life span) option. A plastic bucket will work (Rubi-can) as along as you use the Poo Powder to make sure the mess is LANDFILL SAFE. That's the key. Poo Powder makes the waste landfill and dumpster safe. Nothing else does that we know of. So use the Poo Powder (also sold as Wag Bags).

Read all about it on the Rubicon Trail Home Page:
www.delalbright.com/Rubicon/sanitation.htm

thanks, Del

[LouBell]

Educate me and others about something that I don't understand about the Con. Why aren't there pit toilets along the trail? It seems like it needs about 4. One at each end, and two in the middle. Maybe pay a $2 potty permit (windshield sticker) to run the trail (good for 14 days, so you could run it more than once). I live in central Cal and up above Fresno, there are pit toilets at several locations in the back country. Info please.

[kf6zpl]

Originally Posted by LouBell

Educate me and others about something that I don't understand about the Con. Why aren't there pit toilets along the trail? It seems like it needs about 4. One at each end, and two in the middle. Maybe pay a $2 potty permit (windshield sticker) to run the trail (good for 14 days, so you could run it more than once). I live in central Cal and up above Fresno, there are pit toilets at several locations in the back country. Info please.

Enough money will fix the problem.

However, the old style of outhouses require a rather thick layer of soil to act as a "leach field" similar to a septic tank system.

The Sierra's have a thin layer of soil over granite that does not promote the biological decay system of a septic tank. Hence, human waste bacteria moves quickly through the soil to water.

Under low population conditions (a couple of people per week) that wouldn't be much of a problem. When you hit in excess of 500 per day, the massive amount starts to become a problem.

There are newer style pit toilets. Hence, enough money wil fix the problem.

Got $$$$$ for the Rubicon???

[Jeepndel]

It's not a dumb question, I get asked it a lot.
We can't put in vault toilets for three primary reasons:
1. There's too much granite to really dig a good hole where they're needed (and not enough soil to properly disperse the mess over time);
2. To service them would require a helicopter to do it right (way too spendy) -- we can't really get a pump truck in there.
3. Vandalism. Until we get more cops on the con, they'd be trashed. Sad, huh?

I've looked into composting toilets, dehydrating toilets, solar toilets and even toilets that use propane and flame to incinerate the stuff. Imagine that one....sitting on a flame thrower hoping it don't go off until you get up.
Del

[mikeswrangler]

hey del.. when I was at wentworth.. someone mentioned to me that the rafters had the same problem.. and they had special toilets installed at some locations along the river.. I think it was a 20yr toilet system.. cant remember all the details.. but can we check into this one?

[coachgeo]

Dale,

I once again brought up the old idea of using a Unimog type rig to haul out waste from portable toilets or simular placed along the Rubicon trail. There is now a few more Mog people up in that part of the world and some interest was expressed. One works for the water/sewer utility.

Here is his question to you.

Dale (do you) know of a utility that would accept the toilet waste from the
trail? I live in South Lake Tahoe, work for the water/sewer utility and know
the restrictions we place on the local septage haulers. Poop from the
Rubicon is way beyond our boundaries, is it within anyone else's? Rod

[Jeepndel]

Well, that's a ways down the road as to how we haul waste off the trail. The county and the feds would be fully involved in any transport ideas. Right now the county is looking hard at composting toilets. They use them along the american river in several places.

So we would have to go with their procedures, rules and protocols.
right now, it's pack it out.
and if you pack it out, I'm recommending environmentally safe and legal systems like ThePett Wag Bags.

Del

[FLASHLIGHTMAN]

Originally Posted by LouBell

Educate me and others about something that I don't understand about the Con. Why aren't there pit toilets along the trail? Info please.

there are some "moveable" outhouses on the trail a couple at ellis and also at spider, every year voulunteers brig up new ones, or move still standing ones over a new hole.
Problems:
1. soil is very young and thin, bed rock is encountered at very very shallow depths, if you can set a tent stake with out folding it like a taco your doing really good. But most of the trial is over solid rock outcroppings.
2. Vandals like to shoot and drive over out houses.
3. useage, many wheelers are stuborn and would rather poo in the dirt than use an existig outhouse, additionaly many can't find or know where the out houses are located, in years past we tried to "hide" them off trail from the vandal and down wind from camp.
4. maintenance of course, if ya can't maintain it your better off not building it.
5. snow, each winter huge snow loads can easily destroy outhouses

[BEAR]

Just an idea (brainstorm):

WHat about a pipe system that pumps from spider lake to loon or at least to the aux. road where it can be easily accesed?
It would be more expensive to build but in the long run it would be alot cheaper than pumping with a helicopter or a sewer truck.

It can be done but cost is the major factor.
If the can build the Alaskan pipeline why cant we build a Rubicon sewer line?

Whadda ya think?

[BEAR]

NO comments huh

[Jeepndel]

Keep those ideas coming. I log them and put them in my ROC notes/files.
I'm afraid the County and the Feds might have issues with pumping and such, but hey, ideas are ideas and that's what we're doing here. We're trying to come up many alternatives -- alternatives to closures.

Del

[2Dogs]

I think I would rather use my own personal porta-crapper. You all really like using public restrooms???

[Disco]

Where does one get "Poo Powder"? I'm not buying the PETT system but would like to make my own. So can I get Poo Powder seperate?

[BEAR]

This is my trail toilet, not quite a PETT but it works the same and is a fraction of the cost.



This stuff kills the smell and make it landfill safe


As you can see its just a toilet seat made for a 5 gal bucket


Its easy, just:
Line 5 gal bucket with garbage bag
Place seat on 5 gal bucket
Do your bidness
Pour a little SBG1 over it
Tie the bag up
Place in ammo can and forget about it.

The best part is I can dump in my tent and there is no need to find a "private" place

They can be purchased HERE

[kf6zpl]

Originally Posted by Disco

Where does one get "Poo Powder"? I'm not buying the PETT system but would like to make my own. So can I get Poo Powder seperate?

Here is another alternative.....

http://www.bumperdumper.com/bumper2.htm

[Rubicrawler]

Originally Posted by kf6zpl

Here is another alternative.....

http://www.bumperdumper.com/bumper2.htm

That's fine, but you still need to use Poo Powder to make it Land Fill safe. Without it, you're carrying a bio hazard with you.

[Rubicrawler]

Originally Posted by Disco

Where does one get "Poo Powder"? I'm not buying the PETT system but would like to make my own. So can I get Poo Powder seperate?

Tim, try www.rockytrail.com

Chuck supports the trail through donations to FOTR

edit: here's a better link

[Darwin]

Hi gang,
I spent some time this evening researching and linking a bunch of portable toilet options.
http://www.rubicontrail.com/toilets.html

If anybody has information on anthing else out there that they think should be listed, please let me know and I'll add it to the list.

I also posted the FOTR request that everyone entering the trail bring in a portable toilet of some kind. Putting this info on the front page of rubicontrail.com will help educate people who are looking for informaton about the trail and who are not aware of this great forum.

Let me know how else I can help,
Chuck

[Jeepndel]

Originally Posted by Darwin

Hi gang,
I spent some time this evening researching and linking a bunch of portable toilet options.
http://www.rubicontrail.com/toilets.html
Chuck

Go see the list of options Chuck put up on his site. Remember, he is supporting FOTR with donations from sales (like our new Rubicon Trail sticker too). And the list of toilet options is cool.

Del

[vmog]

Coachgeo here on this website can get you Poo Powder also. Think he sales pretty close to cost to support the cause.

think its coachgeo@pirate4x4.com maybe its hotmail?

[coachgeo]

Originally Posted by BEAR

... not quite a PETT but it works the same and is a fraction of the cost.

This stuff kills the smell and make it landfill safe


Its easy, just:.... Pour a little SBG1 over it Tie the bag up... .

They can be purchased HERE

How many toilet uses does their 20$- 16 oz SBG1 give you? I think PETT turns out to be about 10-15 uses per 16oz. That appears to make PETT work out to be around 10 to 20 dollars /16oz (matters who you buy from) but PETT doesn’t sell in that small of a quantity. (120++ uses per can ranging from my 50 bucks to others 90bucks/can)

Course the SBG1’s deodorant might make it worth the extra cost though. Not that Pooh Powder leaves a stink. It reduces a lot of pooh odor but a little is left lingering if you don’t keep lids tight.

PS. Vmog, yeah that's my address (both of them are correct, though I use hotmail the most)

[Stonefly]

Originally Posted by Disco

Where does one get "Poo Powder"? I'm not buying the PETT system but would like to make my own. So can I get Poo Powder seperate?

Yes, you can buy "Poo Powder" seperate. I'm not buying the PETT system either. Building my own setup (easy to pack/carry, clean & sanitary seat every use, landfill safe, and less $). Poo Powder & waste bags (less shipping costs) work out to $0.99 each use.




Quickdraw Hunter Green Comfy Potty-Toilet $19.95


Pooh Powder (120 use container) $69.95





Waste Bags (24 Count) $9.99
Biodegradable, 100% compostable waste bags fit snugly over any standard, oval-shaped toilet seat and overlaps the rim for a completely sanitary surface every time you sit down.


The waste bags are sold seperate or as part of another toilet system (Nature Bio-Toilet).




The Nature Bio-Toilet is not a bad a deal either. Just doen't look like it would be to stable on anything but perfectly level ground (feet look a little close together).

[Stonefly]

Originally Posted by Darwin

Hi gang,
I spent some time this evening researching and linking a bunch of portable toilet options.
http://www.rubicontrail.com/toilets.html

If anybody has information on anthing else out there that they think should be listed, please let me know and I'll add it to the list.

You might want to consider adding these to your list.

Quickdraw Hunter Green Comfy Potty-Toilet

Nature Bio-Toilet

[Darwin]

Thanks Stonefly!
Will-do.

Chuck

[moveaside]

www.roundeyes.com

Carries a whole different set up pooper on the trail options for anyone's needs and they are a Yellow Star vendor here on the PBB.