Seriously thinking about opening an ORV park...

[Benzz0]

To whom it may concern,

My better half and I had a deep discussion last night about investing in some mountain land and opening a ORV park...I can write business plans and can get financial backing with the right plan. We have numerous lawyer friends willing ot help with legalities and related chit.

The park would be open to all off road styles including hiking, biking and such...camping of course but primitive to start...other activities to include hunting, fishing (if water areas permit this activity) and of course skeet and trap

What I really need is the help from Realtor or people with this type of background to help in located a nice plot of mountainous land around Eastern/Central/Northern/NW Virginia...

I would think a minimum of 300 acres would be suffice...to start off with, but can work those details out when the time comes...

Anyone in VA on PBB have some input on this?

[TEX]

I've visited a soon-to-be-opened park in MO recently & the biggest assets IMO are the campground & river frontage. Wheeling takes a lot of acreage & doesn't bring in that many dollars. They key (I believe) is to find ways to make much more money/acre in the non-wheeling parts of the park.

TEX

[Benzz0]

Originally Posted by TEX

I've visited a soon-to-be-opened park in MO recently & the biggest assets IMO are the campground & river frontage. Wheeling takes a lot of acreage & doesn't bring in that many dollars. They key (I believe) is to find ways to make much more money/acre in the non-wheeling parts of the park.

TEX

hence the camping/fishing/hunting and range...I am sure some parts would need to be blocked off for hunting or even close the trails for hunting as well...land use permits and other fees could apply. I could also build a small house and even allow someone to live onsite and be responsible for land upkeep and maintenance too...

I wouldn't mind ultimately allowing Jeep or other OEM's to come onsite and play as well for featured events...I am sure some wouldn't mind coming onsite for specific events...

[SilverZuk]

A friend of mine has been working on the same thing for over the last 5 years.
If you want it to be open to the public, you will need money generated outside the OHV to make it profitable to stay open.
I called last month on a 1 million dollar general liability policy and it was $7000 a month.
This was to be a rider policy on an existing 10 million dollar policy.

OHV’s don’t make money (that is why Wal-mart doesn’t have one yet).
It is great for the supporting industries, but a loser itself. (hotels, restaraunts, campgrounds, parts stores, tourist shops, etc.)
The liability and costs outweigh the benefits.
The only one I have seen that beat the street is the Badlands. I am very interested in talking to those folks to see how they did it and remained solvent.

About the size of land. You need a minimum of 1000 acres, and that will still be small. I would say a minimum of 5000 would be a good starting point. You also have to address environmental and sanitary issues. If you have 1000 acres, pretty much 99% of it will have to be used. Therefore your environmental impact will likely be 100%.
If you have 10,000 acres and use 1,000 of it to make trails, you can mitigate your environmental impacts by sound trail design. You need parking areas and sanitary facilities also.

If you are seriously interested, I would recommend buying foreclosed mining property. They have awesome terrain (blown up mountain = large rocks), the environmental impact is minimal because it was 100% impacted by mining. The sediment and erosion controls are already constructed, and there are usually good areas for parking and a good road leading to the site.

This is something I would expect to take years to develop, but would be supportive if you are seriously entertaining the possibility.

[TEX]

Originally Posted by SilverZuk

I called last month on a 1 million dollar general liability policy and it was $7000 a month.
This was to be a rider policy on an existing 10 million dollar policy.

Don't remember where I heard this recently (maybe here), but in terms of insurance costs it's better to have a functional campground & add OHV park to it than to start out as OHV. Expensive either way though.

TEX

[DRM]

Start talking to the people already doing it.

http://www.4x4spot.com/off_road_parks.htm

[Bill Collins]

the 2 off-road parks i have been to you have to sign a waiver form to ride on,and one of them has big sponsers...

[SilverZuk]

The waivers are just the first hurdle for lawyers.
Sponsorships are great ideas, but the sponsors generally want to see somone else risk thier shirt before they will throw some money at it. They want to make sure that someone else is really managing the purse strings.

[BUZZISCRAZY2]

Originally Posted by Bill Collins

the 2 off-road parks i have been to you have to sign a waiver form to ride on

That's kind of a given isn't it ?

[cybergeek23851]

Originally Posted by Benzz0

To whom it may concern,

My better half and I had a deep discussion last night about investing in some mountain land and opening a ORV park...I can write business plans and can get financial backing with the right plan. We have numerous lawyer friends willing ot help with legalities and related chit.

The park would be open to all off road styles including hiking, biking and such...camping of course but primitive to start...other activities to include hunting, fishing (if water areas permit this activity) and of course skeet and trap

What I really need is the help from Realtor or people with this type of background to help in located a nice plot of mountainous land around Eastern/Central/Northern/NW Virginia...

I would think a minimum of 300 acres would be suffice...to start off with, but can work those details out when the time comes...

Anyone in VA on PBB have some input on this?

I've got a great uncle who lives in Warrenton and is a General Contractor/Architect. He might have a lead as to where to find such a plot of land. If interested shoot a PM my way.

[chris408]

Originally Posted by BUZZISCRAZY2

That's kind of a given isn't it ?

I never signed anything at Hollister Hills in California.

[fullygruntled]

Had you thought of investing in a park that's just starting up? (ie, Crozet?)

[Bill Collins]

Originally Posted by BUZZISCRAZY2

That's kind of a given isn't it ?

yea,but does that mean they don't have to carry any insuarnce?i got my doubt's about one of these parks haviny any...

[JasonR]

I want in on this.

[ABQ-TJ]

signing a waiver doesn't mean squat...you can still sue/be sued with a waiver.

[SilverZuk]

I would expect any OHV area to have a liability policy.
Many are set up as non-profits. The non-profit leases the land, carries insurance, and has no assets.

This allows someone to sue the insurance. If they go for more, the non-profit has no assets, and the owner is pretty well protected because the property is leased.

[Ken Carter / BRUISER]

Originally Posted by ABQ-TJ

signing a waiver doesn't mean squat...you can still sue/be sued with a waiver.

Yes but the key is that you hope by having sign a waiver they do not know there rights and never will sue

[erikrs301]

Originally Posted by JasonR

I want mansex.

[Screwzer2]

Originally Posted by SilverZuk

I would expect any OHV area to have a liability policy.
Many are set up as non-profits. The non-profit leases the land, carries insurance, and has no assets.

This allows someone to sue the insurance. If they go for more, the non-profit has no assets, and the owner is pretty well protected because the property is leased.

I'd think an LLC or S Corp would get you the same protection.

Idea of the old mine site is a good one. Hard for the locals to bitch about fawking up the land...

Lemme know if you need a remote contractor.

[Ken Carter / BRUISER]

Originally Posted by DRM

Start talking to the people already doing it.

http://www.4x4spot.com/off_road_parks.htm

Just an update for your List

Tellico ORV is not owned or operated by Tellico4x4...com

it is a National Park...

[welndmn]

Originally Posted by chris408

I never signed anything at Hollister Hills in California.

Hollister is a State park, they are talking about privately owned

[TEX]

Originally Posted by Ken Carter / BRUISER

Tellico ORV is not owned or operated by Tellico4x4...com

it is a National Park...

National Park or National FOREST?

TEX

[bspencer]

Originally Posted by TEX

National Park or National FOREST?

TEX

National Forest

[BUZZISCRAZY2]

Anybody here who has entered in any comp has surely signed a waiver. Be it rock crawling TTC or Mud bogs. I would think something was shady if I didn't.

Can you still sue even though you signed ? I guess it all depends on what you signed off on. Personally I've never heard of someone doing it but if you have a good enough Atty, anything is possible.

[Kat]

is Crozet a park? granted i was there 2 years ago, but there is more wheeling in my back yard then in that cow pasture/thorn-brush pile. i'm sure it looks different today, but either way, its no where close to Tellico/Windrock/Gray Rock/Paragon/ Badlands.