HardLine Offroad '06 Moon Buggy Build

[AlanSou]

The team at HardLine Offroad Racing is busy preparing for the 2006 Atlantic Pro season.
After 6 months of sponsor negotiations and design work, we have started construction on our new car for 2006.

Our East coast season will start the weekend of April 29th at the first UROC comp. Ken and I will also be running 3 WEROCK events this year for cash and glory.
If you make it to any events, PLEASE come say hi to us and introduce yourselves!
It would be a shame to travel as much as we are this year and not get to put faces to many of the names we see on the board every day

I live 5 hours from Ken's shop, and we are building the car on weekends. We begin our third weekend of work tonight. The months of planning and design have really made a big difference in being able to progress quickly, but make no mistake about it guys, Ken is an AMAZING fabricator, and if I have my way, there won’t be a single weld on this rig done by me
I am truly blessed to have Ken as a partner in this folly. I rebuilt and did all maintenance on the 2005 rig, and even though my welds withstood some SEVERE hits, I will feel much better with Ken’s work protecting me ;-)

NOW! I know you guys dig the specs, so I’ll start with that:

REAR STEER MOONBUGGY
MOTOR: SuperCharged Ford 3.8 litre V6 from a 95 T-Bird SuperCoupe (aluminum heads)

TRANNY: C4 built by Rusty Bray with Art Carr reverse manual valve body and compression braking, Art Carr 9.5” TC, Advance Adapters C4 shorty output kit.

T-CASE: Advance Adapters Atlas II, 4.3:1, HD output, reverse shift mods for moon buggy application.

CHASSIS: HardLine Offroad Cobra chassis, 1.75x.120 DOM main tubes, 1.25x.120 DOM cross bracing, .25 steel belly pan.

AXLES: 4 wheel steer running on Sunray engineering reverse 9” hex housings, Dedenbear inner and outer knuckles, flipped Strange nodular aluminum centers with 35 spline Detroits, 5.50 gears and billet pinion supports, Alloy USA chromo shafts and Longfield 300M SuperJoints, brakes, hubs and all small D60 outer parts by Extreme Axle Sales (Highonda on Pirate)

STEERING: All PSC: double ended rams front and rear, their pump, reservoir, orbital and RS valve, PartsMike high steer arms.

SUSPENSION: 3 link with panhard front and rear working with RaceRunner two inch body 14” travel air shocks.

WINCHES: Ramsey TR5000 and ATV3000 synthetic.

WHEELS: Stazworks double beadlock steel wheels with pressed centers made of high strength alloy and outer rebar rings.

TIRES: Wish I could tell you, the deal is struck, waiting for the contract and tires. Stay tuned.

And a couple of pics:



Check out our website for more info on our plans for this year:
www.hardlineoffroad.com
LOTS of pics and even TIME LAPSE VIDEO of the build are located in the Gallery section.

Happy Trails!

[SlowmoSU]

The time lapse was very cool,
just a webcam setup to take a picture every minute or something ?

[AlanSou]

Good guess ;-) Glad you liked it.

Not exactly iMAX huh?
Getting the speed/interval right takes a bit of tweaking.
It's kind of cool to watch the clock and realize we are working straight through for LONG stretches of time.

[steelman]

nice looking build. the page is a nice as well. cant seem to get the time laps work. maybe to many hits.

i wish Ken was closer to my neck of the woods. been looking at his handy work for a few years. allways top notch.

looks as if team Hardline is going to be a team to watch.

steelman

[piratebuggy]

Yeah-the time lapse isn't there-sniff

[badassjeepguy]

looking real sweet Alan, cant wait to see it at the first comp...

[mudtruck44]

Pretty late start to have it done in time for the first comp.Keep us updated.

[AlanSou]

Originally Posted by badassjeepguy

looking real sweet Alan, cant wait to see it at the first comp...

Thanks Rob, the paint on your rig is BANGIN!
Can't wait to see it with the panels.

Originally Posted by mudtruck44

Pretty late start to have it done in time for the first comp.Keep us updated.

Your tellin me ;-)

We had planned to start the first weekend in Feb and we thought THAT was late.
Parts delays kept us out of action for a while.
We are at it again.

Fresh pics tomorrow night.

[kbebs]

AlanSou,
Nice work on the project so far. The quality looks great from the pics. Looking at your lines on the car-there are similarities to other rigs from years past. There are however, new ideas that look great and functional as well. How did "the cobra chasis come about"? Did you guys draw it on autocad?
Looking forward to more updates.

[RP Films]

I laugh when Teams cant think of there own Team names?

[broncman]

Originally Posted by YotaFilmer

I laugh when Teams cant think of there own Team names?

???? What exactly are you talking about??? We were the FIRST Hardline Offroad and still are???
Ken

[broncolou]

The rig looks "tight",where is the chrome gonna go?




PS:Haters gotta findout who was Hardline first before bitchin

[AlanSou]

Originally Posted by kbebs

AlanSou,
Nice work on the project so far. The quality looks great from the pics. Looking at your lines on the car-there are similarities to other rigs from years past. There are however, new ideas that look great and functional as well. How did "the cobra chasis come about"? Did you guys draw it on autocad?
Looking forward to more updates.

When I first sat down to start designing this thing last September, I started with a blank sheet of "paper". I didn't use CAD, but a vector based computer graphics package.
In the end, it is the computer version of graph paper. The reason I used it is because I have used versions of the software since 1990 for fun and work and can overcome a lot of it's limitations.
The version we wound up building was the 15th major revision to the design.

Somewhere around version 3 or 4, it became really obvious that there are only so many ways you can fit the components into the package in an MB, and that the similarity in appearances are because the function demands certain things to be very similar.
I was heavily influenced by Tiny and Scrapper, Shannon, Troy, and others.

These days, the diffences you see are largely the result of time spent refining aesthetic elements of the designs. Rob Steffie's new Badlands car is a pefect example. Troy's work is sweet, and he really puts a lot of his own style into the aesthetics.
I would love to see every moonbuggy Shannon has built parked side by side and see the evolution of his design. They have been subtle, but there are definately changes as he moved forward.

Once I nailed down the details of packaging the components, I started to think about some other design goals like

1. Durability (I HATE having to spend my time between comps repairing the car)
2. ease of repair (tubes that are commonly bent need to be easy to replace without cutting off the whole top of the car)
3. Appearance (obvious)

One of the main decisions was to sacrifice a bit of weight and go with 1.75x .120 DOM for the main tubes. I seriously doubt I'll be tweaking those tubes, especially with all the triagulation we will put in (smaller DOM). If I do bend it, that will be some serious "agony of defeat" video Definately changes the look too. It was the first thing one of our sponsors mentioned after checking out the website.

Somewhere around version 10 or 12 of the design, I found myself looking at a very sharp edged, geometric shape, almost faceted like a jewel, but aggressive looking. Dialing it in a bit more, I thought it kind of looked like the cockpit of the Cobra attack helicopter, hence the name. Plus, Ken and I are both devoted Ford guys, so the Cobra heritage comes from there too (although our motor comes from a T-Bird SuperCoupe, I'll take the stretch )
There are so many different ways to design the chassis, and I decided to enhance and build to that agularity as much as possible. Sometimes it's hard to make ourselves NOT bend tube or round things off, but after this weekend, I am very happy with the results.

Anyway, pretty sure I have bored you to sleep by now.
I have 152 pics to go through from this weekends work, so let me go through them and I'll post some candy for ya'll!

[TheRipper_2]

I like the motor decison.I would love to build a small buggy with a 3.8 liter just don't have the cash right now.

[AlanSou]

Thanks Ripper
I had a few bucks before all this started . . . .

[kbebs]

Thanks for a very complete reply. Looking fwd to the updated pics. You guys are doing fantastic work.

[TheRipper_2]

Originally Posted by AlanSou

Thanks Ripper :-)
I had a few bucks before all this started . . . .

Yeah they seem to leave the wallet really qiuck when ordering part's..

[SuperRanger]

Looks cool Alan. Do you have specs on the motor?

Weight?

Length?

Height?

Also, I am interested in why you chose a 9" converter.

Thanks

[RP Films]

Originally Posted by broncman

???? What exactly are you talking about??? We were the FIRST Hardline Offroad and still are???
Ken

Team Hardline was started by a Team on the West coast. It was started over Four years ago. It was a registered business, He was Rookie of the Year, And also WON the UROC West. I am not here to say who is right or wrong. I just know that when someone has actually done something and had major Stories written about them in Major mags they are more legit. It will be nice to have Team Bios on WEROCK and UROC web pages. They have had one on UROCS since they started Team Bios.
http://www.uroc.com/new/teampages.ph...s=PRONATIONALS


The Rig looks really Good.

[AlanSou]

Originally Posted by SuperRanger

Looks cool Alan. Do you have specs on the motor?

Weight?
Length?
Height?

Thanks

Hi Brad,

First, go HERE to start your research.

The block is basically a 5.0 block with 2 cylinders cut off.

LxWxH: Flywheel to the front of the accessories is 24"
approx 24" bottom of oil pan to the top of the SC.
About 24" wide clearing stock manifolds.
Oil pan is 12" wide.

The motor is 5 hours away from me right now so I can't get any more specific than that.

We never weighed the motor ourselves but I have specs on it from different sources. My "lower back" scale says it is heavier than a 4.3 vortec because I delivered a 4.3 at the same time I was taking the motor to be rebuilt.

A lot of the weight comes from the heavy duty stuff in it.
From the supercoupe site:
3.8 block - 120 lbs.
Heads - 35 lbs. (both).
Forged Crank - 45 lbs.
Supercharger - 24 lbs
Pistons - 18.5
Rods - 9 lbs. (1.5 x 6)
Cam - 8.5

We are saving weight by deleting the inter-cooler and tubes, running headers instead of cast manifolds, deleting the AC pump, oil cooler, and replacing the heavy PS pump and some of the factory brackets with lighter stuff.

24 lbs - IC and Upper and lower IC tubes
15 lbs - AC compressor

Originally Posted by SuperRanger

Also, I am interested in why you chose a 9" converter.

I love Art Carr, been running thier stuff since '95.
That said, buying a torque converter from them extremely difficult. Their web site has like "a thousand" C4 converters, ranging in price from cheap to scary. The descriptions up there are so vague they may as well just tell you what color paint they use to base your decision on.
As far as the 9" converter, when I finally got down to talking with the techs, I gave them the specs on the motor, gearing, and what I planned to do with it.
They said "Oh yeah, you need the one we make for Lovell" and that was that.
I asked them a couple of times for specs, and they rattled off a few things. I don't even have a part number for it
Normally, I am a lot more dilligent about knowing what I am buying, but on this thing, basically it was just a leap of faith.

I told myself that chicks would dig it, then later realized they'd never even see it in there . . . am I screwed?

[SuperRanger]

Thanks for the info Alan. We have considered the 3.8, backed off, considered it again, built the 302....

To compare aples to apples, info from Ford -

302 length - 27-1/2" WP to flywheel (firm number)

302 height - 20-3/4" from oilpan to top of intake (this may vary)

302 width - 18-3/4" (presumably from valvecover to valvecover)

One of the reasons we stayed away from the SC 3.8 was the height. It looks like that might not be that much different. I am sure the 5.0 plenum is at least 5" making the overall height in the 26" range.

I will be watching it come together...


As far as the converter goes - there are a lot of options as they serve a wide clientel. Most of what we have worked with them on has been based off of the 9.5" converter. I have no reason to think that a 9" converter would be a bad choice though.

[AlanSou]

Originally Posted by YotaFilmer

Team Hardline was started by a Team on the West coast. It was started over Four years ago. It was a registered business, He was Rookie of the Year, And also WON the UROC West. I am not here to say who is right or wrong. I just know that when someone has actually done something and had major Stories written about them in Major mags they are more legit. It will be nice to have Team Bios on WEROCK and UROC web pages. They have had one on UROCS since they started Team Bios.
http://www.uroc.com/new/teampages.ph...s=PRONATIONALS


The Rig looks really Good.

Thanks for that info Yotafilmer (man I wish people would use at least part of thier real names in their signature lines up here. Pretty sure I met you at Offroad Impact).

Thanks for the compliment on the rig too ;-)

I have definately heard of Pete. WOW! Never heard "HardLine" associated with him.
This name conflict stinks

A little background on our team HardLine:

Before filing articles of incorporation as HardLine Enterprises in August 2004, I searched the web thoroughly for conflicting internet domains. The phrase "hardline" comes up a lot but nothing came back in our sport.

I attempted to contact anyone on Pirate that came back from searches on "hardline".
Guess I somehow missed Pete . . .

I also went through the pain of scanning the UROC board looking for conflicts.
Obviously, you can't search that DB, and half the time (back then) the flash junk didn't even work. An example of how useless that is for the teams: Our team is up on the UROC board, entered in 2004, but of course, it doesn't show up ANYWHERE so don't bother searching. But trust me, the data is in there. Having it burried in the bowels of the worst website on earth is not what I would call reasonable effort to protect the trademark or brand.

In this matter, it sure seems like Pete was there first, but on the other hand, I performed lots of due dilligence before investing my money. More than what I think is reasonable. I mean come on. Pete didn't even buy the internet domain "hardlinemotorsports.com".
How was I supposed to find him, psychic powers?


When you posted, I thought you were talking about ANOTHER team Hardline who engaged in a campaign of complaining here on Pirate, proclaiming themselves "The REAL HardLine". They started using the name after I did. Nice guys I am sure, but when they look back on their actions after they get a little older, I am pretty sure they'll be embarrassed.
Hey! They even compete on the west coast and they didn't know about Pete being called Hardline (but I honestly doubt they looked).

I'd be happy to talk with Pete about this if he wants to. Please feel free to tell him about this post.
My cell phone number and email address is on my web page. Actually, I'm pretty sure I'd enjoy the conversation.

I won't be responding to any more questions on this in this build thread. It is unprofessional and way off topic.

Anyone that wants to give me a hardtime about "hardline" I am easy to reach.

[AlanSou]

Originally Posted by SuperRanger

Thanks for the info Alan. We have considered the 3.8, backed off, considered it again, built the 302....

302 width - 18-3/4" (presumably from valvecover to valvecover)

pretty sure this would be outside of head to outside of head.

Originally Posted by SuperRanger

As far as the converter goes - there are a lot of options as they serve a wide clientel. Most of what we have worked with them on has been based off of the 9.5" converter. I have no reason to think that a 9" converter would be a bad choice though.

Did I put 9" on the original post?
I don't even have a recipt for the stuff I got from Art Carr.
I guess it's a 9.5
Here's a picture of it in the tranny from Rusty's:

[Roc Doc]

Originally Posted by AlanSou

Thanks for that info Yotafilmer (man I wish people would use at least part of thier real names in their signature lines up here. Pretty sure I met you at Offroad Impact).

Thanks for the compliment on the rig too ;-)

I have definately heard of Pete. WOW! Never heard "HardLine" associated with him.
This name conflict stinks

A little background on our team HardLine:

Before filing articles of incorporation as HardLine Enterprises in August 2004, I searched the web thoroughly for conflicting internet domains. The phrase "hardline" comes up a lot but nothing came back in our sport.

I attempted to contact anyone on Pirate that came back from searches on "hardline".
Guess I somehow missed Pete . . .

I also went through the pain of scanning the UROC board looking for conflicts.
Obviously, you can't search that DB, and half the time (back then) the flash junk didn't even work. An example of how useless that is for the teams: Our team is up on the UROC board, entered in 2004, but of course, it doesn't show up ANYWHERE so don't bother searching. But trust me, the data is in there. Having it burried in the bowels of the worst website on earth is not what I would call reasonable effort to protect the trademark or brand.

In this matter, it sure seems like Pete was there first, but on the other hand, I performed lots of due dilligence before investing my money. More than what I think is reasonable. I mean come on. Pete didn't even buy the internet domain "hardlinemotorsports.com".
How was I supposed to find him, psychic powers?


When you posted, I thought you were talking about ANOTHER team Hardline who engaged in a campaign of complaining here on Pirate, proclaiming themselves "The REAL HardLine". They started using the name after I did. Nice guys I am sure, but when they look back on their actions after they get a little older, I am pretty sure they'll be embarrassed.
Hey! They even compete on the west coast and they didn't know about Pete being called Hardline (but I honestly doubt they looked).

I'd be happy to talk with Pete about this if he wants to. Please feel free to tell him about this post.
My cell phone number and email address is on my web page. Actually, I'm pretty sure I'd enjoy the conversation.

I won't be responding to any more questions on this in this build thread. It is unprofessional and way off topic.

Anyone that wants to give me a hardtime about "hardline" I am easy to reach.

Then there are these guys.

Good luck with your buggy and team. I like the unusual power plant.

Doc

[broncman]

Sometimes finding a unique name or an "unused" name can be tuff, even with due dilligence. In the county where I live their are 3 guys with my middle and last name and 4 with my first and last name. I was tired of it growing up so I named my first son a name that was not real common around here but there are now 2 of him!!

Maybe our buggy will be unique enough

Ken