arb vs. factory electric--strength issues

[Booger Weldz]

with all the talk of super birfs and broken detroits, im wondering how my little lockright is surviving up front?? now my girlfriend is building a rig so she gets my front diff with the lockright for her rear axle and i get to go by a fancy new setup.

were pretty much setup co2/arb wise for her truck, but i was looking at inchworms pricing on the high pinion electric locker and....hmmmm....

which has the stronger carrier? electric or arb?? or is there even an issue??

[Xjeepman]

I would say that the arb has a slight advantage in ultimate strength both the arb and the electric lock will tolorate an axle breakage better than a detriot because they lock with much less play in the unit which minmizes the reverse lash that breaks detriots more often than other diffs

[ErikB]

I'd definitely say the ARB has the strength advantage. ARB's have been around and beaten on for years and the only problems I've heard about them (carrier bolts backing out and leaky seals due to installer error) have been fixed over the years. I've heard of VERY few broken ones, none of them in a Toy.

If you come up to pick up that axle, I can show you the broken E-locker carrier that GearMan gave me. The side gear sheered right in half. He's seen at least a couple of them like this and "Ilean" has seen one do the same thing too. And these things haven't been around and seriously wheeled as much as ARB's have either.

Also, the ARB engineer I've talked to said they challenge aftermarket axle shaft makers to send them stuff that will break their diffs in their destructive testing setup. So far, nobody has. He sent a pic too, I'll see if I can find it.

[edit- here is that picture]

[ErikB]

Quote from ARB engineer Daniel Bongard in Australia:

Yeah, we've been around long enough that everyone has heard at least one horror story. But in our defense, we've been developing and improving the Air Locker design for over 16 years, and many of the stories from the early days just won't go away. The competition just doesn't have 'early days' at all. Also we have released allot of models for troublesome axles that the competition won't even try. That ends up biting us in the end when guys have problems with them, but most of those models are even more problematic in the OE version.
> I'm curious on your expert opinion of the locking Truetrac or Truetracs in general...?
I'm not going to slam them. They serve their purpose. But they're kind of a different animal, you know. ARB's are for extremists. We could cut the price on these things way back if we ever gave up on that phylosophy. I'm personnally responsible for destroying thousands of dollars worth of ARB merchandise each month...and that's all without ever touching an ignition key!
Here's a photo: And if it doesn't turn out like this...
(note the busted axle)...I get kicked in the ass and sent back to my computer screen! We also have machines that put 1000's of miles on them while constantly engaging them under full wheel spin, machines that actuate the diff back and forth while cooking the assembly until we turn the diff oil into thick road tar, machines to over-spin the diff under exessive pressure to test the air system, etc....etc....etc....etc.... We keep full data logs of every single test, and to push our designs even further we've put a challenge out to all major performance axle manufacturers to proove themselves by supplying us the strongest axle ever tested. (BTW...don't buy aftermarket "high performance" axles. You may not be getting quite what you thought you were.)

Anyway, I'm impressed w/ ARB.

[Karl]

Well, I call it a wash as far as strength. As far as I know, there are less than a handfull of known electric locker failures. Most people haven't seen one fail. Gearman and ILean appear to be the only ones to have seen failed electric lockers.

You have to remember, the electric locker has been around a long time. FZJ80s got them in 1994 in this country. Tacomas and 4Runners got them later (1996?). But, they were used in other countries long before that.

I remember someone showing a picture of one in a solid front axle of an australian pickup. It had a slightly different electric motor to clearance the leaf springs. It looked like a mid to late 80s model.

So, my guess is that the Toyota electric locker has been around for more than 10-15 years. How many have you heard fail due to mechanical reasons?

But, I have personally seen ARBs lose their air lines. The one I saw lost its air lines going up a steep hill. That won't happen on an electric locker. If you rip off the electric wires, it will remain locked. Then you could manually unlock them for the ride home. The ARB guy backed down the hill slowly, and fixed the problem and then made it up.

But, in the end, I call it a wash between the ARB and the electric locker. Find the best deal, and look at the pros and cons of each and then buy what you want.

[I Lean]

Originally posted by Karl

But, in the end, I call it a wash between the ARB and the electric locker. Find the best deal, and look at the pros and cons of each and then buy what you want.

I think that's sound advice by Karl, which I'd agree with. Both are great units, both have their pros and cons. You aren't likely to be able to break either one, so get the one that you can get the better deal on, or whichever one gives you wood.

[4-runnin]

Originally posted by Karl
Well, I call it a wash as far as strength. As far as I know, there are less than a handfull of known electric locker failures. Most people haven't seen one fail. Gearman and ILean appear to be the only ones to have seen failed electric lockers.

You have to remember, the electric locker has been around a long time. FZJ80s got them in 1994 in this country. Tacomas and 4Runners got them later (1996?). But, they were used in other countries long before that.

I remember someone showing a picture of one in a solid front axle of an australian pickup. It had a slightly different electric motor to clearance the leaf springs. It looked like a mid to late 80s model.

So, my guess is that the Toyota electric locker has been around for more than 10-15 years. How many have you heard fail due to mechanical reasons?

Landcruisers had high pinion front diffs with e-lockers in the early to mid 90's, that is if you got the HIGH end model.
But, I have personally seen ARBs lose their air lines. The one I saw lost its air lines going up a steep hill. That won't happen on an electric locker. If you rip off the electric wires, it will remain locked. Then you could manually unlock them for the ride home. The ARB guy backed down the hill slowly, and fixed the problem and then made it up.

[v6toy4x]

i think the strength issue is a wash so if you want the right deal$$ there is no question that the e-locker is the way to goyou can save hundreds on a hi pinion e- locker as compared to a hi-pinion arb. for the best deal i beat inch worm by almost $100 by going to sterling mcall toyota in houston his total price delivered to the door:

part#41110-60370 complete assembled carier 4.10:1 $747.92
part#82164-60013 wiring harness $21.58
shipping $14.95
no tax
total $784.45

jesse sierra parts dept.
1/800/392/3341/ext.3778

[Booger Weldz]

WOW, kick ass info, thanks guys! inchworm has the electric high pinion for:

Reverse rotation (high pinion) electric locking 3rd member
4.10 ratio only. Ring and pinion changes available below
$765


the 5.29 gearset is:

Ring and pinion sets for electric locking 3rd members
Re-gear your electric locking 3rd member with 4.88 or 5.29 gears from $220

v6toy4x, was the diff only $14.95 shipped??

im not partial to the arb or e locker, just looking to get the best price...whose got the cheapest high pinoin arb setup with 5.29's??

[Drew Persson]

Brian Cox broke the crosspin in his rear ARB (probably on Dump Bump) in his '85 4Runner last spring.

[v6toy4x]

[quote]Originally posted by Booger Weldz
[b]WOW, kick ass info, thanks guys! inchworm has the electric high pinion for:

Reverse rotation (high pinion) electric locking 3rd member
4.10 ratio only. Ring and pinion changes available below
$765





v6toy4x, was the diff only $14.95 shipped??

shipping was a total of 14.95 for both the carrier and wiring harness you hae to remember with inchworm you still need the harness and have to pay tax which is $80 alone

[Karl]

When I bought my rear electric diff from Jay Marks for $650, shipping was only $17. They gave me a special price on the diff because I was going to write up an article about installing it. No break on shipping.

I bet many electric locking diffs have been sold because of my article.

[Bones]

The only problem I see with the electric locker that I noticed on a few Tacomas is that it doesn't disengage real easy, and takes a little turning of the wheel back and forth or some of the skinny pedal to get it to free up afther it is turned off. This could very well have been "operator error" as well. The ARB is instant on/off I love mine and if you have the CO2 setup already, go for the ARB, you won't be disapointed in either though I bet.

Get one of each moneybags. Which ever one you like best, makes sure it stays in your ride

[Shane]

Originally posted by v6toy4x
part#41110-60370 complete assembled carier 4.10:1

This is the part number for the high-pinion diff, correct?

[Bones]

Or get two spools and have those in the rear and the LR's in front? Cheaper and easier

[carter]

Originally posted by Bones
The only problem I see with the electric locker that I noticed on a few Tacomas is that it doesn't disengage real easy

Agreed, this is my one complaint about the e-locker. Sometimes it takes a little bit to get it to engage too.

[v6toy4x]

Originally posted by Shane Krause
This is the part number for the high-pinion diff, correct?

yes the hi-pinion

[Shane]

Originally posted by v6toy4x
yes the hi-pinion

Thanks for the info!