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Shackle problem? - YJ's with XJ springs

35K views 51 replies 23 participants last post by  amerd 
#1 ·
Rig Specs:
95 YJ
1 ton's
XJ springs f & r
6.0 LQ4/4l80E


I have these way back shackle hangers for use with 2.5" springs:

http://www.ruffstuffspecialties.com/catalog/shackle-hanger-p-132.html

It seems like I've got all kinds of measurement issues. What is the factory width of a YJ spring pack and bushings? I don't have any originals to measure, but I'm guessing it's ~3".

The XJ big end bushing is almost 3.25". This is larger than the standard YJ setup and will not fit a standard YJ shackle with a welded center post or bolt sleeve.

Here's the pic:


Shackle is snug to the hanger, but the center bolt sleeve is loose and the contact with the spring bushing is not consistent. You can see the shackles taper out.

I've searched nearly all the stretch threads and I've looked all all the pictures and talk specifically to Tomb.

No threads even hint of this problem. All the pictures I see, the shackles look parallel.

I could not use a center bolt/sleeve and shim out the top, but I want this to be right and since I've found no one else having these issues, I must be doing something wrong.

This rig will have the potential to be hard core but not until I get past these pansy issues!
 
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#2 ·
I used the same shackle hanger kit with the Currie shackles and had the same problem. I used a couple 1/8" thick fender washers (same diameter as bushing) to shim the hanger bushing, and some standard washers to shim the spacer sleeve. If I was going to do it over I'd probably make wider bushings & sleeves, but it works fine this way. It just looks half-assed with the washers. This isn't the best pic, but was the only one I could find. You can see the washers in the spacer sleeve, but I didn't have the fender washers in yet.
 
#4 ·
When you use the XJ leafs, you flip them around so the front(wide end) of the spring is to the rear. So you would have the same issue with stock XJ shackles. I think factory XJ shackles are around 2 3/4" wide. The 3" wide shackles are still about 1/4" too narrow, so they would still need spaced. You would need a 3 1/4" shackle & hanger. I don't think that's a real common size, but I"m sure you could order one or building one wouldn't be too hard.
 
#6 ·
I was sure I went crazy, since not one other xj stretch thread even hinted at this problem. I'm glad I'm not the only one.

Here's the progress I've made.

I called Dan at Ruff Stuff and talked to him about the problem.

He's going to swap the hangers for and send me a set for a FSJ. I don't have a mic, so I'm using a small tape measure, but the big end of my XJ springs seemed to measure 3-3/16" outside to outside. Apparently this is the same measurement for the FSJ hangers that he makes.

I'm going to try this and I'll post up and let everyone know the results.

I might try and setup a bushing size chart to go along with the spring length chart that someone else here has posted.
 
#7 ·
Are you planning on doing any kind of military wrap to the front of springs? I've only had mine out on a few trails but my springs are starting to get quite a bow in the area where the second leafs contacts the top leaf. Maybe I need to lower my bumps so the springs don't get so much negative arch, but I don't want to loose the flex either. I thought I read somewhere about someone using another spring to make a military wrap on both ends, but I don't recall what they used.
 
#8 ·
I haven't got that far yet...... What I've gathered from Tomb's build is that junkyard springs will fail fairly quick. I think Scott used new JC whitney heavy duty springs with one leaf removed with great success.

From what I understand, you have two options for an ailing XJ spring:

1) Take a spare xj main leaf, cut the small eye off, and turn it around and slide the big end of the spare main over the small eye of your spring main. You will have to redrill one hole for the spring pin. This will act as a single sided military wrap of sorts. I'm not aware of anything you can use to wrap both ends. I'm sure Alcan can make you a set, but you are quickly hitting the cost of a 4 link.

2) Take a spare xj main leaf, cut both eyes off, and place it on top of your current leaf pack and then use spring clamps to hold them together.

Both options will increase your spring rate and may impact your flex. Are you running any form of axle wrap setup?

Honestly, with the bushing/shackle issues and spring durability, I may just abandon the idea all together. Seems like just moving the mounting locations of all my YJ hardware is making more sense. The only added work is two spring/frame hangers and I gain a good bit of spring reliability - I'm wondering if BDS will offer the lifetime warranty on a SOA setup? Might be a don't ask, don't tell situation.
 
#9 ·
I do have a traction bar. Without the traction bar, I could put it in gear in 4lo and twist the springs into an s. I'm really happy with how it works just not sure how long the springs can hold up. I don't want to loose any flex. I wouldn't mind the springs being stiffer, but I don't want it to sit any higher. It's already a couple inchs higher than I'd like. I'll just keep wheeling it as is, and carry a spare spring for now. As soon as I can afford to link it...
 
#10 · (Edited)
Hey 68buggy,
What xj springs are you trying to use? The Rancho XJ springs 44148 have the same size eye at both ends. The currie boomarang shackles bushings are to small to use and you will have to get some bigger ones. The ones I used fit 1 3/4" tubing. I used the ruffstuff wayback hangers and my original cj hangers with no problem.
 
#11 ·
i used the heavy duty springs from qtec, then took out the 2nd smallest leaf because it was super stiff, then i added another main leaf, cut it and millitary wrapped it as said above. my build isnt finished so i havent had a chance to take it out yet but taking out the 2nd smallest leaf in that pack helped makin them not as stiff.

i think tomb might have a smilliar set up, maybe even another main leaf added, not sure.
 
#12 ·
jr84cj - Interesting..... I'll have to check that out. It seems there are quite a few differences in OEM and aftermarket springs. It sucks that none of the bushing manufacturers that I can find post bushing sizes on their websites. Everything is listed by application....

At least during mock up, I'm using an OEM Xj spring from a 1995 cherokee. It's not the size of the eye that creates the problem, it's the width of the spring with the bushing and sleeve installed. It appears that all the variables exist in the bushing configurations. Your options are much greater when looking for 1.75" as opposed to the big end of the xj OEM.

DCS - I'm fairly certain you are right. Your setup appears identical to tomb. Since you are still in your build, can you measure the shackle side spring width - outside of bushing to outside of bushing? The only measurements I have to work with are the OEM's. Also, what specifically are you using for shackle hangers? I'm interested in the tube width and the size of the bushings on the frame side of your shackle.

Thanks to everyone for these details!!!
Hopefully it will be beneficial to others also.
 
#13 ·
#15 ·
Perfect!!! I bought those bushings exactly to try and help clear everything up. That's what made me question the shackle hangers. I'll be thrilled to get those measurements of your hanger. I know the measurement of the bushings you spec'ed - 3-3/16".

Dan's been a great guy to deal with!!! I highly recommend them as a dealer and the Pirate discount came in handy!!!

Yup I did what tomb and jethrodeg did on their Jeeps. I took another main leaf flipped it so that it would military wrap the small side (fit nice) and cut the small end off at the end. Don't forget to redrill the one hole. It made my Jeep go up just a bit but not enough to affect anything and is a whole lot stiffer compared to just the reversed cherokee springs. Adding a traction bar for extra assurance. --------------------Kyle
The extra main leaf you used...... did you buy a whole extra pack just for the extra main leaf, or did you add a junk yard main to your new HD pack?

I'm currently using JY springs for my mock up. Even with just the jeep frame weight, they seem flimsy. I'm betting that I quickly purchase new springs.

It's been slow moving, but here's where I'm at.
 
#14 ·
Yup I did what tomb and jethrodeg did on their Jeeps. I took another main leaf flipped it so that it would military wrap the small side (fit nice) and cut the small end off at the end. Don't forget to redrill the one hole. It made my Jeep go up just a bit but not enough to affect anything and is a whole lot stiffer compared to just the reversed cherokee springs. Adding a traction bar for extra assurance. --------------------Kyle
 
#20 ·
good info, plan on doing this pretty soon almost got every thing i need. i interested to know the spring hanger you got from ruff stuff, i was going to use the way back hangers but by reading this, kinda worried. you said you use fsj hanger, were they stock or do they make way back hanger for them also. also on the rear bumper what are most people using i read some are use 3x6 square tube but i was thinkin of just welding a 3/16 peice of metal to the rear crossmember/bumper and putting the hanger on them kinda like a btf bumper. i will also drill holes in the member and them in grabbing the the 3/16 plate alittle more. will this be fine? i am going to do xj spring on the front also, should i do a shakle reversal or will this just defeat the stretch. thanks
 
#23 ·
also on the rear bumper what are most people using i read some are use 3x6 square tube but i was thinkin of just welding a 3/16 peice of metal to the rear crossmember/bumper and putting the hanger on them kinda like a btf bumper. i will also drill holes in the member and them in grabbing the the 3/16 plate alittle more. will this be fine?
When I built mine, I was planning on using 2"x4" rect. tube for the rear bumper. When I mocked it up with the shackle hanger on the back of the 2x4 the shackle angle was almost straight up & down vertical. If you look at the picture I posted above, I just notched the ends of the bumper where the shackle mounts are. I would think a piece of 3/16" plate would be fine, I would use 1/4" but it would probably be overkill. I used the 2x4 so could mount a hitch reciever & mount a spare tire.
 
#27 ·
thanks for the info, now im think i should 1/4 instead of 3/16 hhmmm. i want to make d ring mount welded to steel plate just want to make sure it doesnt com flying off with some pull. like i was saying i plan to drill out like 2 hole in the steel plate and weld it to the factory rear cross(along with the sides and everything.) i have also heard drill hole will strenghten it kinda like dipple dies? also when i comp cut my rear i want to move the body mounts to the inside of the frame rails on the same cross membe and run the bolts down through the floor in the cargo area (noticed you dont hear alot about that part) will that work fine or do your body mounts have to be on the outside? on the front shackle rev.. i have read about people doing with waggy spring for a 2" stretch and getting flamed because reversal movment counter act it, so they say it a waste. i figured seen im going the trouble of a stretch on the front i would just do a reversal too (suppose to work so good) and with a 6" stretch you should still get some of the stretch atleast?? but once again thanks for the info on the problem saved some future head ache and sorry for semi highjack of the tread.
 
#30 ·
I'd do the shackle reversal. I broke springs stock on 31's with those damn front shackles. When I put the 60's under my rig. I added a piece of 3x4 x1/4" rectangle to the front of the frame and made mounts below that. Got 2.5" stretch out of the front and put the shackles as close to the motor mount area as possible through the frame to make it sit low. Didn't have to move the steering box by going 2.5" forward. Also got a good shackle angle with it angled back and a low ride height, at ride height the shackles sit back about 25 degrees. My rig ended up sitting 4.5" taller than stock after doing a spring over swap on D60's. Here's a pic of the front leaf placement and upper shackle mount through the frame.





 
#28 ·
Pistonhonda - No problems man!! Glad this all helped someone else too. Don't fret about the shackle reversal too much. Ultimately it's your call and people will have opinions both ways. Try it, if you like it and it works best for you, then wheel it - if you don't like it, swap it back. There's no silver bullet that will provide the best solution for all situations. Trust me, I'd rather be linked than leafed, but for now this works best for me.
 
#29 ·
I used the cut both eyes off of the main leaf method. Only I put the second main leaf under the actual main leaf and bolted it in with the back. Then only on the front side of the leafs orientated to the vehicle(flipped XJ leafs) I put a square u-bolt clamp on the main leaf, double main leaf, and then 2nd and 3rd spring. Seems to be holding up to all the abuse on the AZ Rocks. Currently running 39" BFG Reds, but here is a pic of it on 37" CC's. Doesn't seem to hurt flex at all and I do have a traction bar.

 
#33 ·
Are any of you guys running xj springs in the front having problems with your pinion angle? My buddy was gonna run xj springs up front but didn't because using a chevy d60, you have to use the stock spring pad. He went against using the xj springs because he thought the pinion angle would get worse as he drooped. I'm considering running xj's up front on my chevy d60, and was gonna compensate the angle by redrilling the center pin 3 inches closer to the center...basically making it a 3 inch stretch. Am I explaining this right? :shaking: basically, with the center pin offset, it seems as it droops down it will put the pinion down, instead of up.

Oh, and for the record, I'm running stock xj springs in the rear of my yj. First i used just stock used springs and snapped one in half just leaving the driveway. I added a second stock used main UNDER the main, cutting both eyes off just as they started to curve, to make them as long as possible. They ended up having about a half an inch in arch while sitting. Been on a couple heavy rock sections and they flex like a dream. Haven't had a problem yet and i'm not even running a trac bar, although it'd be nice.
 
#37 ·
great info guys im looking into doing this set up myself.ive been a member here for a while but first time posting. do you guys think the shackle reversal is nessary? theydontstop what kind of traction bar are you running?pics? im going to move back the front spring mounts to help offset to overall length. thanks for any and all info
 
#40 ·
here's mine xj springs all around I do have a problem with the shackle hitting rear bumper, never thought about frenching the bumper until I read this thread good idea. The way I got around the bushing problem is I cut the ears of the xj spring bushing to match the yj shackle.


Back looks bad but i can lift tire 20" of the ground before shackle hits bumper, Once the spare carrier and spare plus fuel cell and spare parts and tools are loaded I'm hoping the springs to flatten out enough to flex better. Of course now that I have seen how you recessed your hangers it's time to fire up the torch and modify.
 
#41 ·
I would move the fixed end spring hanger back. That will add a little more wheelbase, give you a better shackle angle and solve your problem with the shackle hanger. Heck, you could even shorten/french the fixed end hanger to reduce you lift height a bit while you were at it.
 
#42 · (Edited)



This is my pile. I'm just trying to build a functional rear bumper, thus digging up the old thread. The springs work pretty good for me after buying NEW spring packs and adding an additional main leaf as a "military wrap" around the small end. I'm still using the stock YJ stationary location for my front hanger for the rear spring if that helps anyone.
 
#43 · (Edited)
the bushings can be addressed by shimming with washers or trimming the bushings and sleeves themselves as already stated above i even tried swapping out many bushings and sleeve comb. to find a proper fit but there is no set wrong or right way. you will want to use a track/wrap bar or at least add a stiff leaf (cut to fit length) on the top of the long side of each pack. just wrap clamp it to the packs to resist the neg arc motion. i ran this setup for a while and it made the packs last alot longer. use aftermarket lift springs or at least beefed up stock springs for greater strength. ajust your perches and shackle mounts to get the ride height you want. 1st pic is this setup on 4.5" or 5.5" bds xj springs (tough springs great warranty :D). the only thing i didnt like was catching the frame mount hangers on rocks so to the post above i would definately angle the hangers up to make a more gradual angle whether you want to stretch the mounts for anymore wheelbase or not. 2nd pic this time on my current build i have stretched just the mounts to use yj springs instead. dont have a good side view of the perches alone but you can see how the now less angle should slide rather than catch your rig on a boulder. just some ideas hope they help someone.
 

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