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Natural progression

106K views 416 replies 60 participants last post by  gottoys2000 
#1 ·
I've been reading Pirate for years and I figured it was about time to have a place to post. Here is a natural progression in the eventual buggy evolution. I like having a back seat and room for tools so I left most of the bed in tact. I don't like the way the back turned out so cleaning that up will probably be next.

Here are some specs.
88 4Runner, All-Pro SAS 4" springs, 36 IROK's, 30 Spline Longs, high pinion front, V6 Rear, 4.88's, ARB's, TG 6 shooter knuckles, full hydro steering, Marlin 4.7 duel Ultimate case.



Suspension time

Looking silly with 29's

Ran Aftershock with 33's and an open front.

Cage

Cold Beer

Cut the back off and raised the bumper up and in 8"

Dig this shot

First flop

Poser shot.


Run what you brung.
 
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#4 ·
Here is a bit of my learning lessons through the school of hard knocks. When climbing a steep waterfall cap the PCV. This passed California SMOG without doing anything but running it after this smoke out.

YouTube - Smoked out on the first water fall.

This truck has been up Aftershock, Claw Hammer (Day/night), Sledge hammer (Day/night), Jack Hammer, Wrecking Ball, and Bender Alley. I've also made Frodyce a regular occurrence and have run the con a few times. Haven't done Little Sluice yet but was in line when a truck broke in front of me. Sometime I'll make it back.

Basically I think this is a good formula but there is always room for improvement. The big question I have is do links really make that much difference in performance in the rocks?
 
#11 ·
The big question I have is do links really make that much difference in performance in the rocks?
The biggest difference I've noticed is that it doesn't HOP and bounce nearly as much when you are trying to get up difficult stuff. The tires generally just spin smoothly when they loose traction and gain it again smoothly too instead of all that spring wrap loading and unloading.
 
#5 ·
88 Toyota 4Runner SR5

Winter Projects I'd love to link it but can't justify the cost at the moment. I'm a fan of keeping it simple and adding utility.
  • Rework rear cage tubing and tool storage
  • Master break cylinder
  • LC Engineering cam/rockers
  • 3 point seat belts for the rear
  • Move gas tank up
  • Track bar for the rear
  • Shave axle housings
  • Half doors


Here is why I want to change the rear tube work. It just looks kind of funny like it was an after thought. (which it was)
 

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#7 ·
Dove tail from the end of where I cut the body is a probable option. The body was cut with the shell in mind just after one of the stock bolt locations. I really like the lines of goose13's flatbed but don't know how I would tie that in with the 4runner body. I'll probably try to integrate, moving the gas tank behind the seats, adding a platform above the tank for the cooler and camping gear, and incorporating my ammo cans with easy access to tools toward the back, leaving room for a spare tire above the ammo cans.
 
#8 ·
Looks a bit different without the cage. The plan is to bring everything up and in. Dove tail the back sheet down at the bottom of the fenders leaving the shell and upper cage basically unchanged. I ran out of sawzall blades so I didn't get to the front bumper or sliders. I'll hopefully get to more this weekend.
 

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#12 ·
Thanks Erik. I've read that links help with HOP. I've heard that people that go to links wouldn't go back but as for wrap why wouldn't a traction bar produce the same results. I'm guessing that the rigidity of the links helps keep the axle better located. Whereas the leaf spring is flexing and allowing the axle to move but not necessarily wrap with a traction bar. It seems subtle but could be the difference.

I'm going to drop the fuel tank this weekend and take some measurements.
 
#13 ·
Totally agree with Eric, links almost eliminate wheel hop. Links can allow more articulation in certain situations but it looks like your spring set up allows plenty of flex and articulation.

THat is why I linked mine..........wheel hop killed me.........If I couldn't crawl it I couldn't make it. If you can build a link arm of some sort to control the spring wrap but yet allow for flex then I would do it. Leaf springs are simple and effective. Show us what you come up with.

More pics of the gf please! :)
 
#16 ·
I guess I never thought of trying to sell it. I was planning on using the main hoop and the top but I don't really have a great use for the front clip. It is in sections now but you could probably join the front and the top back together and probably even join the sliders that I still have to cut off to mate up with the rest. The back is a loss but I do have a stout rear bumper that would mate up to a stock runner. I don't know make me an offer. I can get pictures of the parts if you want them.
 
#18 · (Edited)
Well I dropped the fuel tank and if I thought I might get away with not messing with the suspension this talked me out of it. Here is my first crack at the link numbers. I think if I move the rear axle back 3" stretching my wheel base from 105" to 108" I can squeeze the upper link just behind the foot well of the back seat. Looks like the fuel tank won't find a home until the rest is thought through.

Here is a picture of the cage for anyone that wants to talk me into starting over from scratch. :D
 

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#19 ·
I started narrowing the front but decided half way into it that cutting the front clip off and remounting all the components that are mounted to the wheel-well would be easier than trying to re-weld it back together.
 

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#21 · (Edited)
shouldn't be hard to talk you out of using that cage. It's not the best I have ever seen and if you can see the bad spots in it then you could most definatly build it better this time around. Besides all of that, by narrowing the front you have to cut it half apart anyway so, just sell it recoop enough to get most of the tubing for the new one and build it stronger this time
 
#22 ·
Yeah, the hood and fenders will go back on eventually but I think I have a long way to go before that happens. I shouldn't have wasted my time trying to save the fender wells. :shaking: Oh Well at least I saw the light and have
a better direction now. I didn't realize that I could get a 5" drop out of the hood though. That will be sweet.:D
 
#31 ·
Care to give your reasons for wanting to drop the Antisquat value so low? I'm kind of a novice at this, but have been reading up fairly heavily on this subject lately. From what I have gathered, for a Rock Crawling rig a decent amount of Antisquat is desired, so as to keep you from going nose over, and to aid in climbing. Obviously going any more the 100% or so seems excessive, but keeping it in the 80-100% range seems to work really well for people. I guess I'm confused on why he needs to drop the lowers down another 2-3" when he already has an AS value of 50% in the latest 4 link calculator. I'm not saying you are wrong, I just am wondering about your reasoning. Saying "it will do screwy things wheeling and at high speeds" is pretty vague, so I guess I'd just like to hear what these "things" are.

As I understand it, the Roll Center value plays a bigger part in how it drives on the road, as long as the AS value isn't extreme.
 
#32 ·
If I build it as described in the above numbers with holes at 1.5" vertical separation on the upper frame side I can sweep the AS from 24% to 102% with 4 mounting locations. That should give me enough room to find a sweet spot. Currently 26" is already 2" below the frame and if I do decide to lower the truck the lowers will get flatter and I'll still have enough adjustment to set the AS. We'll see where it ends up when actual springs and links are built. At this point it is all hypothetical because there might be some clearance issues between the spring perches and the lower link mounts.
 
#34 ·
Thanks Taco-Runner. The cool thing is that I still have a whole lot of work to do before I make the links and have time to plan and message the design. I'll take some more measurements this weekend and see how far down I can mount the lowers without setting them to drag on everything. I'll have to do some more reading on how much belly clearance is typical in a comp rig. If I'm going to use that as my gold standard then I might as well set it up to emulate that as much as possible.

Anyone want to buy a cage and rear bumper that fits a stock runner (see above pics)? I gave Big-O dibs but he hasn't responded yet.
 
#35 ·
So I've decided to go in a different direction and save the link job until after I have strong enough axles to take more punishment. Progress is slow but I should be rolling pretty stout by Tin Benders Hammer run in April.

Look what the cat dragged in. :D
 

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