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Old 07-09-2007, 03:51 PM   #1 (permalink)
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How did Tellico become a OHV area?

There is a article and picture in the Asheville paper today. I am going to write a letter in response. Any Tellico history would help. Also the picture is one of the mud holes on 8 I think. Have they been filled in?

http://www.citizen-times.com/apps/pb...D=200770708015


Thanks, James
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Old 07-09-2007, 05:03 PM   #2 (permalink)
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I went all the way around 8 last month and there was a few wet places but definately no ruts like that.

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Old 07-09-2007, 05:28 PM   #3 (permalink)
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Motherfuck. It's now in the biggest hippy infested, gay ridden city's newspaper.

edit: btw, Tellico was formed after logging had been done. All the trails there were once logging roads.
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Old 07-09-2007, 05:28 PM   #4 (permalink)
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I dont know how it started, but my dad can remember wheeling there in the early 70's.
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Old 07-09-2007, 05:28 PM   #5 (permalink)
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That is definatly the mud holes on 8 and yes they have been filled in.
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Old 07-09-2007, 05:39 PM   #6 (permalink)
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this is nuts. i hope southern sees the severity of this problem.
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Old 07-09-2007, 05:46 PM   #7 (permalink)
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everyone here should read that article and comment. i did. leave the cussing out and make solid points that refute what they say about us.
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Old 07-09-2007, 05:50 PM   #8 (permalink)
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i did not put my screenname but i am mike, behind s10er8
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Old 07-09-2007, 05:58 PM   #9 (permalink)
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everyone here should read that article and comment.
We are talking EVERYBODY!

I didnt want to keep rattling on, maybe somebody can touch on the fact that WE are hunters, fishermen, hikers..... outdoorsmen. We care about those trout a hell of a lot more than they ever will.
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Old 07-09-2007, 06:44 PM   #10 (permalink)
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Just commented. That is nuts they are using pictures that are old.
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Old 07-09-2007, 09:25 PM   #11 (permalink)
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Otey's words are nothing more than a complete misrepresentation of the situation. There are not "hundreds" of trails in the ORV area. There are 12. Only 12 and only 11 accessible by truck.

The area is managed to help prevent sedimentation. Southern Four Wheel Drive and fellow volunteers have helped to maintain the trails through the years. A portion of the money made from membership is donated each year to help achieve Forest Service goals.

I believe that the individual groups have found a scapegoat. They do not want to look at other causes for their supposed brook trout population decline. Are they being over fished? Too much access? Can anyone come out and try to find the elusive brook trout? Yes, on all accounts. Anglers leave trash, mishook fish leaving them scarred for life or unable to eat for days. Then once they catch the fish they remove their delicate coating which leaves them more susceptible to injury and disease. Why not put a ban on brook trout fishing?

They assume that everyone that visits the area is some no account, beer-gutted redneck hell bent on destroying the earth. These "monster" trucks are built to be more capable and leave less impact on the land. Most enthusiasts adhere to the "Tread Lightly" philosophy.

I believe the groups interested have neglected to do first things first, clean their own backyard. To sum it up, the big dog barks loudest and in this case the anglers are their own worst enemy.
How can they argue with this? I'd like to know. This comment kicked their ass IMO! These same points should be brought up if anything does take place in a lawsuit.

-Very Awesome! Someone should send this link to the Trout Unlimited and all the Forest Services.
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Old 07-10-2007, 06:12 AM   #12 (permalink)
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How can they argue with this? I'd like to know. This comment kicked their ass IMO! These same points should be brought up if anything does take place in a lawsuit.

-Very Awesome! Someone should send this link to the Trout Unlimited and all the Forest Services.
Also, if I'm not mistaking, the trout in those streams are actually stocked. So maybe they have cut back on the number of trout released. Also due to the shortage of rain fall the streams are lower than normal which would cause the trout to go to deeper holes and would not be moving up and down the stream as much. It amazes me how some people will bitch when they are doing nothing more than fishing in a barrel...bitching because someone did not put enough fish in the barrel for them.

We were at Tellico this past weekend and they have done butt loads of work to the trails. I guess the also failed to mention anything about all the bridges that have been built to keep people out of the streamsÖwell except the dorks in thigh high waders.

Hey here is a thought, lets bring in PETA because these fishermen are hurting our fish and are depleting the spices. Give them someone else to fight with so they will leave us alone. Then lets see how they like being attacked and lied about.

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Old 07-10-2007, 06:25 AM   #13 (permalink)
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Old 07-10-2007, 07:02 AM   #14 (permalink)
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Commented. Asheville is a hot bed for enviro-activists so it's important to have our voices heard in that forum.
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Old 07-10-2007, 07:35 AM   #15 (permalink)
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Old 07-10-2007, 07:47 AM   #16 (permalink)
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Tellico River is stocked.
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Old 07-10-2007, 08:29 AM   #17 (permalink)
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It doesn't matter what side you're on here, the media is and always has been a problem with influence. What they say, people listen to, and 70% of people believe what they hear because they don't know enought about it themselves.

I'll bet $100 that the lawyers, the forest service, trout unlimited, Tellico OHV, SFWD, etc. all have factual information regarding the issues in question and that the media is filling people full of shit. One side will have water quality data, trout population data, habitat data, etc. and the other side will have trail data, CURRENT trail conservation data, fisherman access data, etc. to be laid out in front of everyone.

It just sucks that the media is making offroaders out to be the bad people instead of the trout people. Damn media. I posted, but it says I'm from Houston. I didn't even say where I was from. ???
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Old 07-11-2007, 09:15 AM   #18 (permalink)
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At the Smoky Mountians National, and Brasstown Bald (Ga.) parks I saw a displays on the logging of the mountians years ago. Lots of pictures of whole mountians cut bare, with rail tracks set up to hauls logs out. One of the winches that was set on rails is in the Tellico park but I forgot where. From what I read there is not much "old growth" forest in the Smokies.

I would bet some of the Tellico trails are over 100 years old.
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Old 07-11-2007, 05:39 PM   #19 (permalink)
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The mud hole in SELC's news releases was on trail 8. It was fixed on March 11,2006. I've got the pics from the work day that shows us doing it.This sort of thing is a lot of their propaganda. Most of their allegations / info in their "intent to sue" are like that. a pint of truth in a barrel of bs.
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Old 07-11-2007, 05:40 PM   #20 (permalink)
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The OHV area was taken over by the USFS in the mid 80ís. Before that it was private land and lumber company land. Most of the area was clear cut until the early 70ís. B says that he has pics from the 60ís that look like moonscapes. Iíve also been told that the southern strain brook trout were nearly wiped out then. The original trails were logging roads. When the forest service took over there was nearly 100 miles of trail. They closed most of them. The trails we ride are in only one half of the area. The other half is in the other drainage (not the Tellico).The forest service also closed most of the trails that ran to or near the water. The only ones that are near the river now had to be left for access (4, 5, and 6). As far as stocking goes North Carolina Wildlife doesnít stock fish in the OHV area. The trout stocking is on the Tennessee side of the line by Tennessee Wildlife. These are only rainbow, and only in the Tellico River. There have been some stockings of Northern strain Brook trout in North River. There was also a transfer/restocking of Southern strain Brook trout in McNabb creek in 2005. Many of the streams on the Tennessee side were wiped out by acid leaching from the rock during construction of the Cherohala Skyway. Before that Southern strain Brook trout were collected/hatched/re-stocked in Sycamore and Brookshire creeks in the early 90ís. This was done at the Tellico Trout Hatchery (to my knowledge we are the only hatchery in Tennessee to successfully hatch Southern strain). I donít know if North Carolina has had any luck. Southern Four Wheel Drive Assn. has been in on the maint of the area since the USFS took it over. Many of our members (especially Gunnar Byrd and Grif Shirley) are the reason that the area is still open. The funding for this area comes from daily fees, grant money and donations from SFWDA. The daily fees go to pay USFS salaries associated with the area operations and to provide materials. The grant money pays for the large projects (the new bridge, the Allen gap parking lot expansion, etc.) and equipment contracts. The rest is provided by SFWDA. We own and operate the dump trucks and backhoes that you see in the area. We also volunteer our time and other resources to do the work that keeps the area open. In the months of May, June, and the first week of July alone SFWDA has provided over $22,000 in machine time and labor. We are still going full speed ahead on the trail work. Well you asked for it and there it is (partially anyway).If anyone has any facts or corrections that they are CERTAIN of, please throw them in. Keep the rubber side down ROB
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Old 07-11-2007, 06:23 PM   #21 (permalink)
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i was thinking about this today... obviously they are trying to make a mountin from a pile of bull shit... the trail millage and the mud hole is obsolete. come to find out the trout were wipped out by a highway. so when were these water tests taken? last month, year 1987?? with all the current work how can that not be taken into consideration?
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It works for fatties to hotties...okay so there have been a couple more fatties then hotties...I am person for god sakes. Don't judge me
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Middel fangers
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Old 07-11-2007, 06:24 PM   #22 (permalink)
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rob, thanks for all your hard work!
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No but my post upon further review in the context of this thread is GAY
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Originally Posted by misfitcj View Post
It works for fatties to hotties...okay so there have been a couple more fatties then hotties...I am person for god sakes. Don't judge me
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Middel fangers
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Old 07-12-2007, 07:20 PM   #23 (permalink)
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Thank you Rob

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Old 07-13-2007, 08:06 PM   #24 (permalink)
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The OHV area was taken over by the USFS in the mid 80ís. Before that it was private land and lumber company land. Most of the area was clear cut until the early 70ís. B says that he has pics from the 60ís that look like moonscapes. Iíve also been told that the southern strain brook trout were nearly wiped out then. The original trails were logging roads. When the forest service took over there was nearly 100 miles of trail. They closed most of them. The trails we ride are in only one half of the area. The other half is in the other drainage (not the Tellico).The forest service also closed most of the trails that ran to or near the water. The only ones that are near the river now had to be left for access (4, 5, and 6). As far as stocking goes North Carolina Wildlife doesnít stock fish in the OHV area. The trout stocking is on the Tennessee side of the line by Tennessee Wildlife. These are only rainbow, and only in the Tellico River. There have been some stockings of Northern strain Brook trout in North River. There was also a transfer/restocking of Southern strain Brook trout in McNabb creek in 2005. Many of the streams on the Tennessee side were wiped out by acid leaching from the rock during construction of the Cherohala Skyway. Before that Southern strain Brook trout were collected/hatched/re-stocked in Sycamore and Brookshire creeks in the early 90ís. This was done at the Tellico Trout Hatchery (to my knowledge we are the only hatchery in Tennessee to successfully hatch Southern strain). I donít know if North Carolina has had any luck. Southern Four Wheel Drive Assn. has been in on the maint of the area since the USFS took it over. Many of our members (especially Gunnar Byrd and Grif Shirley) are the reason that the area is still open. The funding for this area comes from daily fees, grant money and donations from SFWDA. The daily fees go to pay USFS salaries associated with the area operations and to provide materials. The grant money pays for the large projects (the new bridge, the Allen gap parking lot expansion, etc.) and equipment contracts. The rest is provided by SFWDA. We own and operate the dump trucks and backhoes that you see in the area. We also volunteer our time and other resources to do the work that keeps the area open. In the months of May, June, and the first week of July alone SFWDA has provided over $22,000 in machine time and labor. We are still going full speed ahead on the trail work. Well you asked for it and there it is (partially anyway).If anyone has any facts or corrections that they are CERTAIN of, please throw them in. Keep the rubber side down ROB
Thanks for all the history on Tellico. I found your post and the SELC's own web site (selcga.org) the most informative. The "newspapers" as usual got it wrong and dramatized the situation as good vs evil. Here is my take on it.

The real damage to the environment is not people accessing and enjoying nature it is development. SELC, the law firm filing suit against the division of forestry for miss-management of the Tellico –ORV area, shows pictures on their website of rain water run off flowing into streams. This problem isn't isolated to the Tellico ORV area. Despite water quality which has been deteriorating for centuries throughout the country, their clients own literature states that the Tellico area has the largest quality trout habitats remaining in the southeast. A study they published states:” Regional experts specifically identified urbanization … as major threats to brook trout habitat". Their literature further suggests many causes for decreasing brook trout other than miss-management of the OHV, including: non-native fish, agriculture, and logging. The effect of this law suit maybe outside management or outright sale of this property, which would not be in anyone's best interest, especially the trout. At the present time there is a very good balance between preservation and the use of this land. The money being wasted on this suit could be put to better use. Such as funding new research to confirm my survey findings that 9 out of 10 brook trout prefer four wheel drives over fishermen. Thanks SFWDA, Pirate, and all those who have written letters and posts to expose the truth and help the cause.
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Old 07-14-2007, 09:09 AM   #25 (permalink)
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The money being wasted on this suit could be put to better use. Such as funding new research to confirm my survey findings that 9 out of 10 brook trout prefer four wheel drives over fishermen.

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