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Old 10-30-2008, 01:56 PM   #1 (permalink)
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Tellico lawsuit dismissed - forest service to release new plan

TELLICO LAWSUIT DISMISSED - FOREST SERVICE TO RELEASE NEW PLAN

October 30, 2008
FOR IMMEDIATE RELEASE
CONTACT: Greg Mumm 208-244-2112
Carla Boucher 757-546-7969

Court papers filed today indicate that the lawsuit brought by motorized recreation advocates against the US Forest Service over the Upper Tellico Off-Highway Vehicle Area will be voluntarily dismissed. The case was filed by the BlueRibbon Coalition, United Four Wheel Drive Associations, and Southern Four Wheel Drive Association and challenged temporary closure orders issued by the Forest Service in December 2007. According to a stipulation entered by all parties to the case, it is the Forest Service's "stated intention to complete a public planning process and announce a new decision in the near future which will likely substantially impact or change the interim orders referenced in the complaint..." The Forest has provided proposed management alternatives and received comments through July 2008, on the new plan from the recreation organizations and many others interested in Tellico management.

"We are pleased that the Forest Service has made active management of Tellico a high priority, and that this planning process seems to have avoided some of the diversions that have delayed similar decisions in other areas," observed Jay Bird, immediate Past President of Southern Four Wheel Drive Association. "Under these circumstances, and mindful of the desire for both Forest Service personnel and recreational enthusiasts to focus on the new decision and future management, we agreed that dismissing this action was the right thing to do," Bird concluded.

The dismissal is without prejudice, meaning that these same organizations or other interested parties could file administrative appeals or lawsuits challenging the ultimate outcome of the new planning process. Further information about the plaintiff organizations, including information about the ongoing planning process at Tellico and developments in other matters, can be found as indicated below.

# # #

The BlueRibbon Coalition is a national recreation group that champions responsible recreation, and encourages individual environmental stewardship. It represents over 10,000 individual members and 1,200 organization and business members, for a combined total of over 600,000 recreationists nationwide. 1-800-258-3742. www.sharetrails.org

United Four Wheel Drive Associations is an international organization comprised of four wheel drive enthusiasts, clubs, associations, and businesses dedicated to providing community services around the world, education in responsible land use and safe vehicle operation, and protection of our natural resources through conservation practices. 1-800-448-3932. www.ufwda.org <http://www.ufwda.org>

Southern Four Wheel Drive Association (SFWDA) was founded in 1987 to promote responsible land use and to keep public lands accessible for motorized recreation. Since the formation of Southern Four Wheel Drive Association, the focus and mission is to promote responsible land use and to help keep public lands open for motorized recreation. For more information on the activities and accomplishments of Southern Four Wheel Drive Association, please visit www.sfwda.org <http://www.sfwda.org> or contact us at 1483 N. Mt. Juliet Road, PMB # 222, Mt. Juliet, TN 37122
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Old 10-30-2008, 02:22 PM   #2 (permalink)
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So Now We Wait!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
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Old 10-31-2008, 07:15 AM   #3 (permalink)
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Please do not wait!

This is basically the process the lawsuit has to go, since the new proposals will need to be commented on. We all need to stay active as this is just the calm before the storm. In typical FS fashion they will offer several alternatives from complete closure to wide open. The one proposal they will pursue is the one they actually want to implement, which will look very similar to that of the last stated proposal. Basically, cutting trails, winter closure, wet weather closure ect. Keep on the offensive, SFWDA still needs the funds as this fight is not over!
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Old 10-31-2008, 07:45 AM   #4 (permalink)
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SFWDA still needs the funds as this fight is not over!
Southern and UFWDA will need funds for the future to help keep this area open.

You can donate here for UFWDA: http://www.ufwda.org/store/index.php...index&cPath=13

Thanks

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Old 10-31-2008, 08:30 AM   #5 (permalink)
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As expected, TU is spinning this voluntary dismissal as the OHV community waiving the white flag. THAT IS JUST NOT TRUE! Here is what they are saying on their forum:
Tellico Lawsuit Dismissed (by Wilhelm on SE Fly fishing forum)

For sometime now I have been telling you that the lawsuit brought by the OHV clubs against the Forest Service had no merit. Well it appears that the OHV clubs have now come to the same conclusion. Today they issued a press release indicating that they filed papers with the court to voluntarily dismiss their case. In other words, they have given up. http://www.sharetrails.org/releases/media/?story=618

If you read their press release you'll see that they are claiming that they are dropping the suit because the Forest Service is being responsive to the OHV clubs requests. The truth is that the Forest Service is following a well established procedure and a timeline that was published by the Forest Service before the lawsuit was even filed. That timeline indicated that the Forest Service would issue its recommendations for public comment in October.

They also don't mention in their press release that the Forest Service filed a motion a few weeks ago asking that the lawsuit be dismissed because the OHV clubs failed to state a legitimate claim. Many of us thought that the Forest Service's motion to dismiss would succeed.

As you'll remember, the lawsuit was filed in May, served in July and recorded in September. Looking back at those delays, obviously they never believed in their case but just filed a pointless lawsuit to appease their membership, wasting both time and money (ours as taxpayers by the way). By timing their dismissal to the release of the Forest Service's recommendations, they are now trying to snatch victory from the jaws of defeat by claiming that the Forest Service is being responsive to their requests. Like I said above, the Forest Service has their procedures and we all knew what those procedures were a year ago. This is no victory.

The OHV clubs have raised a lot of money for the lawsuit from their membership and my only question is, now that the lawsuit is dismissed, who gets that money? Even if they plan to file another lawsuit in the future, they have certainly mislead their membership.


I want to make sure everyone is clear, WE HAVE NOT GIVEN UP. The lawsuit did what it was supposed to do. It's kicked the FS into gear to go through the process that they neglected to follow to ARBITRARILY close trails based on pressure from a rich, powerful, and selfish ANTI-ACCESS group. Now the FS is going to have to prove that what they did wasn't just a knee jerk reaction to political pressure.

We are standing ready to evaluate the EA when it comes out. We have engaged professionals in the NEPA process, we have lawyers to help us, and we have our community to rally behind this. AND WE HAVE NOT MISLED YOU IN ANY WAY. We still do not have enough money to fight what we expect to be an UNFAVORABLE document and decision. Please, now more than ever, consider donating to the RESCUE TELLICO fund. It's almost GO TIME folks, and if we don't have your support, we won't have TELLICO.
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Old 10-31-2008, 08:40 AM   #6 (permalink)
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Heather Thanks for posting that. After reading what TU posted... Best I dont say anything I guess.
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Old 10-31-2008, 09:56 AM   #7 (permalink)
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Wilhelm is not shy about spreading misinformation and encouraging bad blood between outdoor enthusiasts.
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Old 10-31-2008, 10:07 AM   #8 (permalink)
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That Wilhelm guy is just plain full of shit. That dumbass had all of us kicked off his board so his "followers" couldn't see what we're trying to say about these closures. Now, he's spinning this decision so that he can gain some kind of support. IMO, they don't have the support that he wants out of the south. It really boils down to the agenda of about 4-5 people.

The best thing that you can do is show the FS what you want in writing.
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Old 10-31-2008, 11:28 AM   #9 (permalink)
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made a small donation and will write a couple letters when the time comes.
Hopefully it will still be around by the time I get a chance to get out there!
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Old 10-31-2008, 11:29 AM   #10 (permalink)
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I'm sure we all have mini-delusions of grandour but wilhelm takes the cake...must be related to dj "I walked all of tellico in a day" gerken...funny, I just checked his profile on SELC's site to see if the article is still there but its gone now...and its gone from the blueridgeoutdoors webs site except for this bit...
Quote:
ENVIRONMENTAL ATTORNEY D.J. GERKEN
During an all-day downpour in the mountains last month, attorney D.J. Gerken hiked 40 miles of mud-slick trails in North Carolina’s Tellico Recreation Area. 

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Old 10-31-2008, 11:30 AM   #11 (permalink)
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I had not seen their spin on it, but I am sure we expected that.

Carla from UFWDA is on a family emergency at the present time. I am sure she has been informed of this decision all ready.
I will talk to her next week about this also.

Now we get ready to review the FS documents that they will publish soon, and then we start the letters and working with them again and try and get a favorable decision.

Thanks

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Old 10-31-2008, 02:01 PM   #12 (permalink)
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Heather, I shouldn't speak for everyone, but I will.

None of us believes any of this for a second.

We're behind SFWDA/UFWDA/BRC every step of the way! After this is done and a thing of the past, the offroad community will be in debt to ya'll for a long time to come.

This is a reason to STEP UP the contributions and finish this thing once and for all!!!
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Old 10-31-2008, 05:18 PM   #13 (permalink)
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That Wilhelm guy is just plain full of shit. That dumbass had all of us kicked off his board so his "followers" couldn't see what we're trying to say about these closures. Now, he's spinning this decision so that he can gain some kind of support. IMO, they don't have the support that he wants out of the south. It really boils down to the agenda of about 4-5 people.

The best thing that you can do is show the FS what you want in writing.
Maybe I'm over reacting...which I have a habit of doing but, it sounds like maybe 4 or 5 people just need to have their asses kicked. If you want someone to stop fawking with you, sometimes you have to give them a reason that they can fully understand.

I know and understand that going through the court system is the correct coarse of action but...and it's a very large but...it seems that all over the country the court systems are against us also. So if the 4 or 5 that are causing all the trouble were to meet a few people that swelled their eyes shut and leave them with the knowledge that if they did not leave us alone the next time would be worse and there are a hell of a lot of us that are more than willing to pick up where the last ones left off...with the ass beatings. Message delivered with great prejudice.

Again, maybe I'm just over reacting from frustration.
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Old 10-31-2008, 06:06 PM   #14 (permalink)
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I agree that sometimes the only language idiots understand is real pain. Seems that a few people feel compelled to work the system cause they know that win or lose there is no personal consequence, no personal repercussions...until they change the legal system to make the losers pay they wont feel the pain of losing...all the enviros have to do is sue sue sue
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Old 10-31-2008, 08:40 PM   #15 (permalink)
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Tim Wilhelm is a faithful servant of TU
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Old 10-31-2008, 08:51 PM   #16 (permalink)
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Yeah and he appears to be a faithful reader here.You guys need to keep your emotions in check your makin us look dumb.


Quote:
As follow up to my initial post to this thread, let me come clean with the rest of you. I have a certain bias regarding the Tellico lawsuit. Specifically, I want to see OHV activity controlled in a manner that prevents further impact to water quality in the area. However, with that said, I have tried to present the issues to you as factually as I can and in a manner that you can tell when I am presenting fact and when, instead, I am presenting my own conclusions and personal opinion. If that hasn’t been apparent to you, then I apologize for misleading you.

The update I gave at the beginning of this thread has been picked up and reprinted on www.Pirate4x4.com. Understandably, they have been very critical of my assessment of the situation. While I have tried to be factual, they believe that I have spun the issue in a manner that is no longer factual. That’s fine because I understand that they are as committed to their side of the issue as I am to mine. We both have a strong bias towards our cause and who would expect otherwise?

What I have failed to see from the opposing side is a well constructed argument that their right to access lands managed by the Forest Service supersedes the Forest Service’s obligation to manage the forest in accordance with applicable law and the Forest Service’s own Forest Plan. It is my opinion that all TU and its partners have ever asked of the Forest Service is that it follows applicable law and its own Forest Plan. Nothing more.

Instead I have seen the following responses to my post:

From a user that calls himself “Thumping”:
“Maybe I'm over reacting...which I have a habit of doing but, it sounds like maybe 4 or 5 people just need to have their asses kicked [emphasis added]. If you want someone to stop fawking with you, sometimes you have to give them a reason that they can fully understand.

I know and understand that going through the court system is the correct coarse [sp] of action but...and it's a very large but...it seems that all over the country the court systems are against us also. So if the 4 or 5 that are causing all the trouble were to meet a few people that swelled their eyes shut and leave them with the knowledge that if they did not leave us alone the next time would be worse [emphasis added]and there are a **** of a lot of us that are more than willing to pick up where the last ones left off...with the *** beatings [emphasis added]. Message delivered with great prejudice.

Again, maybe I'm just over reacting from frustration.”

And from “yellowxj”:

“I agree that sometimes the only language idiots understand is real pain [emphasis added]. Seems that a few people feel compelled to work the system cause they know that win or lose there is no personal consequence, no personal repercussions...until they change the legal system to make the losers pay they wont feel the pain of losing...all the enviros have to do is sue sue sue”



I want to hear a well thought out and presented defense of their position. I have searched for it in their forums and their websites and in my opinion, all they have provided is emotion, threats and little logic. Maybe its my fault that I haven’t looked hard enough, but I haven’t found it and I am beginning to doubt that it exists. I wish they would give me something concrete to evaluate rather than attempting to give me something to fear.


wilhelm





http://www.southeastflyfishingforum....4.html?t=27154
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Old 10-31-2008, 09:17 PM   #17 (permalink)
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That is hilarious. And it also means that he read about me outfishing one of his people last weekend. Wilhelm if you speak with Joe tell him that me and the old Marine were laughing about the situation tonight. Funny that a hunting guide doesn't know what the term "range" means ...

And the offer still stands on feeding him to the gators, they haven't eaten all week

I love the so-called "outdoorsmen", they think they are so in touch with nature

I'm sure it isn't very favorable to the fish to have a hook protruding out of his mouth. Not to mention the silt that the fishermen are kicking up as they romp around in their waders like cattle.
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Old 10-31-2008, 09:21 PM   #18 (permalink)
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Wilhelm even wrote a little diddy about McCracken in his signature..

"He walks in! He's ready for mystery...he's ready for excitement! He's ready for anything...he's...
Nick Danger, Third Eye! "
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Old 10-31-2008, 09:41 PM   #19 (permalink)
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What even funnier(to me anyway) is that we have people registered over there that he probably dont know about.


Their must be just a select few that are in the know as none of the local TU members here know anything about the suit.Only one of them that I talked to had even been to Tellico and he said it had been at least 10 years ago.And these are the people that are holding the meetings for the local chapter.
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Old 11-01-2008, 01:11 AM   #20 (permalink)
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Maybe I'm over reacting. BLA BLA BLA
Again, maybe I'm just over reacting from frustration.
Hey, don't post comments like this in the land use forum. It is actively being used against us. Delete this crap.

Edit, damn didn't read every reply, yall already saw the post. Still a point to be made, Everyone can and is reading this, keep it off the public domain.

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Old 11-01-2008, 07:10 AM   #21 (permalink)
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I love the so-called "outdoorsmen", they think they are so in touch with nature
Whatever man, I want to learn from Wilhelm. I need to learn how to hike 40 miles in the pouring down rain in one day.

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Old 11-01-2008, 07:55 AM   #22 (permalink)
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I still have yet to see the point in all this I mean Silt is bad, but the hook and frying pan isn't? If the trails get shut down we as a group should start trying to stop fishing on the rivers around the area, cause its killing the fish.
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Old 11-01-2008, 08:08 AM   #23 (permalink)
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Like Kurt has said one time before, TU wants to kill the fish before we do. Simple as that
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Old 11-01-2008, 04:46 PM   #24 (permalink)
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LOL wilhelm. Wilhelm if you really dont understand at all what the big deal is, why OHV users are soooo passionate about Tellico, just in case no one has ever spelled it out...imagine that you only have 2 great places to fish in North Carolina (instead of the almost unlimited places you might enjoy now) and PETA want to close one of them because of the trauma that catch and release inflicts on the fish. And you know that if PETA wins and gets that one place closed then it'll be sooo much easier for them to get the other place closed. There are only two public high challenge places for OHV use in NC that I'm aware of. Imagine you used to have 2 public places for great fishing in Georgia and one of those got closed a few years ago. Imagine that shortly you'll only be able to fish on private land and even then they'll claim the damage you do to the fish either by catch and release or eating them is intolerable.

People in the OHV community get bent out of shape when SELC/TU misrepresent facts, lie, and use the system. People dont like it when you have to use censorship to stifle debate. For better or worse pirate is known for its freedom of speach. You wouldnt have to look for debate if you allowed in your own forum.

And I dont know what your experience is like in the arena of criminal justice. There are many thoughts about how to handle criminals. Some say education is the cure. Some say punishment. Bottom line is when people drop so far from civilization that they become more like animals then they may have to be forced into submission. Pain. Thats why if you cant talk your way into having a prisoner leave his cell then you have various physical ways to inducing the prisoner to leave his cell. Prisoners learn that one way or another, pain or no pain, they are leaving the cell. Even idiots know what pain means.

In the case we are all experiencing here with the Tellico issue is that some small number of people imagine them selves above civilization. They seem to feel that an imaginary fish and water quality problem is soley related to the OHV community. If they were sincere in their interests they wouldnt have to use lies and distortion to help make their case. Since there is no repercussion for SELC/TU they can make their case however they wish because even if they lose the people that donate to them will keep sending money and tell them to keep up the "good" fight. Tell us what you think Wilhelm...no need to hide.
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Old 11-01-2008, 05:02 PM   #25 (permalink)
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The sad part in all of this is none of the actual enthusiasts win, no matter what happens

Another tragedy is most of us crossover, a LOT of us offroad guys fish and I'm sure a lot of the trout guys enjoy locking into 4wd to get to a remote fishing destination. Theres really not a lot of difference between them and us..

Imagine what we could accomplish if both "sides" just sat down without lawyers and discussed this whole matter

I'm sure someone in a position to do so, from our side, would agree to this. How about your side?

Wilhelm, if you have to, reply to us on southeastflyfishing. We're listening
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