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Old 10-31-2008, 11:11 PM   #1 (permalink)
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Tim Wilhelm please sign up and post

I know you think we have thrown up the flag but that couldn't be farther from the truth. Sign up here on PBB and post some answers to our questions. You can also link it to your little board so people have somewhere to read the truth. I don't run a damn thing here but I can honestly say I doubt you will join the band like many of us have on your site. I know you read here so post up. You have told many lies and reworded things to make your followers think your God. You will be told the truth here. First off about some things you posted
"For sometime now I have been telling you that the lawsuit brought by the OHV clubs against the Forest Service had no merit. Well it appears that the OHV clubs have now come to the same conclusion. Today they issued a press release indicating that they filed papers with the court to voluntarily dismiss their case. In other words, they have given up."

Not by a long shot.

"If you read their press release you'll see that they are claiming that they are dropping the suit because the Forest Service is being responsive to the OHV clubs requests. The truth is that the Forest Service is following a well established procedure and a timeline that was published by the Forest Service before the lawsuit was even filed. That timeline indicated that the Forest Service would issue its recommendations for public comment in October."

They are working with USFS trying to do what is best for everybody and the decision timeline was for dec31st

"They also don't mention in their press release that the Forest Service filed a motion a few weeks ago asking that the lawsuit be dismissed because the OHV clubs failed to state a legitimate claim. Many of us thought that the Forest Service's motion to dismiss would succeed."

That is what was going to happen when you guys joined in the lawsuit but did not happen according to public records, so again please quit telling lies. I can't believe your followers never call you on your lies.

"As you'll remember, the lawsuit was filed in May, served in July and recorded in September. Looking back at those delays, obviously they never believed in their case but just filed a pointless lawsuit to appease their membership, wasting both time and money (ours as taxpayers by the way). By timing their dismissal to the release of the Forest Service's recommendations, they are now trying to snatch victory from the jaws of defeat by claiming that the Forest Service is being responsive to their requests. Like I said above, the Forest Service has their procedures and we all knew what those procedures were a year ago. This is no victory."

I know your mad about our VICTORY! And you have waisted more tax dollars than any of us, you have also managed to bout put some people out of business there as well.

"The OHV clubs have raised a lot of money for the lawsuit from their membership and my only question is, now that the lawsuit is dismissed, who gets that money? Even if they plan to file another lawsuit in the future, they have certainly mislead their membership."

I for one could care less what happens to the money, I can assure you they have spent serious time and money on trail repair and can use the money in the future for deals like this or for repair. But their financing is none of your business.


Now I have a few questions, and let me say these are my opinions and I am not involved with S4WD or pirate I just love tellico and Im tired of nobody calling you on isues you should be called on.

Where are your documented test results for the upper tellico area?

Why would you claim to hike in there when you couldn't possibly make it up the first hill without having a heart attack?

Why didn't you go back to the mud hole that flared you up a week later and see you couldn't even see where it was after being repaired?

Also if there were tests were they taking during fishing season when there are 5000 fishermen waiting at the hatchery to follow them down stream causing at least half of the sediment issues?

Do you know the trails there were made from logging roads and were not built just for OHV use? I ask this because you always talk about how many miles of trails there are but obviously didn't research where they came from.

If vehichle travel will not be allowed, that means no fishing unless your hiking in ,then what ? are you going to keep pushing until the whole deal is closed?

Thats it for now, like I said this is just my opinion. And I also fish but fish for something a little harder to catch and that you can't see while fishing.
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Old 11-01-2008, 12:20 AM   #2 (permalink)
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/forum/members/wilhelm.html

Looked that one up a while ago.

As a side note that forum sucks. I've tried to sign up a couple times (for fishing info not as a troll) even sent an email to support about my registration problems. No response, maybe I need to clear my cookies of pbb before signing up.

I'll never support TU again after the BS they've pulled over Tellico.

See you on trail & on stream.
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Old 11-01-2008, 01:14 PM   #3 (permalink)
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Wilhelm claims he is open to discussion, but seems to revel in the protection of his own board. There was a very thorough discussion going at one point, several mis conceptions were corrected, on both sides. And the debate was at least 95% civil and courteous. Then, all of a sudden, anyone with dissenting opinions had their access denied with no explanation from the admins.

Please post up and let's talk about it.
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Old 11-01-2008, 01:41 PM   #4 (permalink)
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The site will not let me register either

Tim Wilhelm, come on and discuss this with us like mature adults. We can do it at a forum of your choosing, just let us know where to go.

You feel so strongly about the issue, step up and lets talk this out

or we could always give you a call at (704) 442-12xx

The ball is in your court big guy
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Old 11-01-2008, 10:41 PM   #5 (permalink)
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How about a little soft ball to start Wilhelm? Perhaps you could defend the idea of putting a muddy post-rain picture of the tellico river in the SELC/TU literature and claiming that OHV's caused the muddy condition? The masses dont know the difference. You should educate them so they arent confused. There arent any OHV's in the Toccoa/Ocoee River and it the same muddy color after a heavy rain? Is that right? You wouldnt want TU to think we're driving down the Toccoa/Ocoee River.

Was it DJ Gerken stretching the truth when he claimed to have walked 40 miles of mud slick Tellico OHV trails in one day? Or was it just bad editing in the article? It was on his bio page at SELC for a while until we started wondering how he did it. Could just be coincidense but it disappeared shortly after. 40 miles in one day, while taking pictures and notes, taking 3 hours to walk one particularly difficult section. He might be allowed on your forum, maybe PM him and do a little fact checking.

I dont know that the pro-ohv side has had to distort the truth. I have heard a lot of people questioning the numbers that the SELC/TU have come up with. Like the claim that 2500 vehicles a month use the Tellico OHV area. That would be 80 per day every day of the month. I dont know if you've ever been there but I have. The Forest Service couldnt corroborate that number. 2500 mud slinging monster trucks grinding up brook trout would be hard to miss.
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Old 11-02-2008, 02:07 PM   #6 (permalink)
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Never goin to happen.He says he feel strongly about this,but obviousily not strongly enuf to come here and argue his point.He wont alow us over there because he's afraid some of his flock will begin to ask some ?????'s.If it is such a slam dunk case then why are ya hidin and trollin this board.

Yeah I troll your board,but it's only because you wont let me register.
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Old 11-02-2008, 07:03 PM   #7 (permalink)
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This is a great idea in my opinion. You lurk here all the time so why not put up or shut up. You think by posting a couple posts from here gives you the credit you've been needing to gather a decent following. Weak.

I posted up on the SEFF board with well thought out, civil and rational plans and somehow I wasn't perceived as some mouth breathing hillbilly and that just didn't sit well with you or your peers. Next thing you know I was denied access along with many others with the same rational thoughts. We even had some of your fellow anglers agreeing. Oh hell no, that won't fly there. We all found that out.

You're grasping, no better yet, stretching for anything to hold onto so this arguement of yours won't seem all in vain.

So please, register here. it's free and we'd love to hear your side. I personally would love for you to sit down at your computer in Charlotte, NC and argue your points with me. no threats. only facts. bring it.
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Old 11-02-2008, 07:21 PM   #8 (permalink)
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In case he missed it in the other thread, all he has to do is respond to us in his thread on the southeastflyfishing forum
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Old 11-02-2008, 07:24 PM   #9 (permalink)
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That is the cowardly way to do it,but it seems to be all we'll get.
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Old 11-02-2008, 08:15 PM   #10 (permalink)
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comeon man!

You know I am pretty quiet and don't have much to say, not just here but in life but I love Tellico and I am really tired of deals like this going down and it is hard to fight for our rights when lies and half truths along with big corporate money makes it impossible to fight. The response letter you wrote to Cabellas was full of stetches at best. Calling these companies is a waiste of time, while they seem to care and send a few emails they could really care less and need to make donations somewhere to lower their tax debt. In my opinion when the FS releases a decision and if it opens any of the trails or don't close more TU will then file their charges against the FS. Its all a revolving door but I bet one thing, if they file they will get to a judge and get temporary closiers until court, why couldn't we get to see one to open it back up? We are not just fighting TU, the FS is not on our side either. As soon as TU cried trails were closed. IMO here is the bottom line on erosion, this is based off of alot of old logging areas I have been to for wheelin or horseback riding or whatever. It is in no way scientific, but the roads built with dozers for logging are going have erosion problems. But with travel and volunteer work including silt traps it can be slowed. Close them up and it will get worse and happen more quickly with much more runoff. Want some proof? go on the TENN side where they closed the ohv trails that used to be part of upper tellico, they were also logging roads, some of the cracks in them are 5 ft deep and the edges are real soft. I can't believe that FS supervisors, judges and non profit org. like TU don't really are not smart enough to relize things like this and just wear their blinders and focus on one goal and refuse any other explanations or views. But I do have an idea.

After reading wilhelms response, especially the part where he said that we waisted THEIR tax dollars I started thinking. Things like this are a big burden on taxpayers and with the way things are going something like making cuts could for sure help. So wilhelm, and others like him, because we have offices in place that police our laws like water act violations and such and that cost us tax money we are paying double plus extra cost incured with court ventures from greenie groups, I made a call to one of our state reps, who is my uncle, he is going to get me in touch with the people I need to propose legislation for nonprofit groups funded by corp. money and donations which we get no tax profit from, making them liable for 100 percent of the costs. Its simple the feds and state orginizations have people in place to pursue their laws. Orginizations like TU have chose to pursue them on their own so why should we pay. If it means that much to you fine , YOU PAY FOR EVERYTHING not the tax payers.

Will this happen overnight? No, but I can only imagine the costs incured to the USA with things like this. Thanks wilhelm for your statement about taxpayer burden and giving me the the idea with it, and really just for waking me up. Imagine the money spent in Cali and some other states with deals like this. If they have to pay whatch it slow down, or like I said if it's that important to you that you have your own orginization for your cause expect to come up with some cash to cover the cost.
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Old 11-03-2008, 05:09 AM   #11 (permalink)
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How interesting, look what I discovered!

I was googling Trout Unlimited Forums this morning to lurk. I discovered an outdoorsman forum www.btlsfan.com (Fishing, Hunting ATV's ect) that started a thread on TU. It seems that a past pissed off member of TU posted up a strong negative stance against TU over it's involvement with Tellico. Now that is some good publicity for them. We need to get this Trout1 guy to start posting over here.
Here is the link. http://www.btlsfan.com/forum/showthread.php?t=11242
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Old 11-03-2008, 05:40 AM   #12 (permalink)
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best first post I've seen in awhile
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Old 11-03-2008, 05:41 AM   #13 (permalink)
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Wow,I cant believe that hasnt been pulled yet.,but Im sure Wilhelm is lurkin and will have it pulled.

Last edited by big mudder; 11-03-2008 at 05:43 AM.
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Old 11-03-2008, 06:01 AM   #14 (permalink)
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I was checking out the forum and they seem to be a little like Pirate in a sense. They seem a little like a raw crowd over there. It looks like the post has been up for a few days already and several have seen it. They may want the responses?
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Old 11-03-2008, 06:07 AM   #15 (permalink)
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What exactly is the idea of banning people wilhelm? We can all understand that on "your" forums the use of coarse language would not be allowed but if someone did post a good arguement why would you delete that? Argue your point. Atleast to the point where both sides have argued to a stand still and part ways with a "We'll just have to agree to disagree." That works pretty well on most forums IF both points of view relatively valid. Come on Wilhelm...its not like your not getting the message.
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Old 11-03-2008, 06:16 AM   #16 (permalink)
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It's called control.He has control over there and is free to say/do as he wants and nobody will call him out.If he came here that would be gone.

He reminds me a child who put's his fingers in his ears and makes loud noises when somebody says something he dont want to hear.
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Old 11-03-2008, 06:20 AM   #17 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by big mudder View Post
Wow,I cant believe that hasnt been pulled yet.,but Im sure Wilhelm is lurkin and will have it pulled.

Unless they get threatened with a lawsuit....I dont think thats a wilhelm friendly crowd on that blts web forum...looks like some average environmentalist who thinks he's doing everyone a favor forwarding some thing thats labeled "pro-environment". Truth is that thats the kind of mindless "environmentalist" that swells the ranks and puts money in SELC type groups pockets. They feel like sending $10 to "save" the environment couldnt hurt anyone. My wife used to do that. After getting some heartfelt "news" letter from the sierras/peta/etc she's send in $15 and write it off. I'm sure people read DJGerkens account of hiking all 40 miles tellico in a day, in the rain, taking notes and pictures, performing cpr on guppies, etc and threw some coin to SELC to help prevent the godless hillbilly's decimation of the whole NC state and federal parks system.
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Old 11-03-2008, 06:34 AM   #18 (permalink)
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Originally Posted by Crawfords Campground View Post
I was googling Trout Unlimited Forums this morning to lurk. I discovered an outdoorsman forum www.btlsfan.com (Fishing, Hunting ATV's ect) that started a thread on TU. It seems that a past pissed off member of TU posted up a strong negative stance against TU over it's involvement with Tellico. Now that is some good publicity for them. We need to get this Trout1 guy to start posting over here.
Here is the link. http://www.btlsfan.com/forum/showthread.php?t=11242

Just wanted to capture "Trout1's" post here before the TU illuminati get to it.

Quote:
Trout Unlimited are a bunch of tree hugging communist!

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Let me tell you all a little about Trout Unlimited, especially the Tennessee TU. They come across as a decent group to join however if you really start digging into the true nature of what they really stand for you would more than likely reconsider. I was a long time member of the Tennessee Trout Unlimited and everything seemed fine on the surface until I found out from my son and his friends that are into off roading into some of the more remote areas to fish that Trout Unlimited is pushing to close motorized access to public lands. One of their biggest pushes is to close the Tellico OHV area this is in the Nantahala National Forest that borders Tennessee and North Carolina. When I heard this from my son I told him that Trout Unlimited is not doing any such thing, this was because as a member of Trout Unlimited I had not heard anything of the Tellico OHV area. I started asking questions and did discover that the Tennessee Trout Unlimited did in fact initiate a legal action against the Forest Service for water run off into the Tellico River. They pulled in heavy guns like the Southern Environmental Law Center, who have built a very lucrative business around suing the government for anything they can, to force the US Forest Service to close off the park to motorized vehicles. I quickly discovered that there are a couple of big time trouble makers in the club (Wehelm and a fellow who calls himself Squeek) that are using the club to fight for their own agenda. I called several other members to fide out if they were aware of this situation and they had no idea either. The moral of this story is that I hunt, fish, off road and consider myself as a responsible outdoors man. I do not accept the sneaky way that TU handles itself and DO NOT recommend anyone to join the dope smoking hippy liberal communist group. Any outdoor club that feels they have an exclusive right to public land is not a friend I want to be associated with. Since my self removal of this organization I have been actively educating everyone I can on this cloak and dagger operation of a fishing click. Let TU know that you will not support their efforts to close the Tellico OHV area!
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Old 11-03-2008, 12:55 PM   #19 (permalink)
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That is crazy right there. Atleast some people are seeing the truth now. I was just up there 2 weeks ago and I can tell you this. They never plan to reopen slickrock after what I saw. The entire top portion is stair stepped and filled in with grass growing on top. This is right after the last portion of rock heading up what used to be slickrock. Have not seen peckerwood ledge but plan on hiking it this year. Lets atleast get some real facts too! 2500 rigs a month! what!? I ride tellico atleast 1 time a month and I bet I have not seen 200 rigs in there since last dixie run in 07! If he is the man he says he is he needs to get on here and "chat" with the knowledgeable people who actually use the trails and see what is going on to help the park. Trail 4 has more silt traps than rocks at this point! I hope we hear something soon on this as it eats me up knowing in 2 months much more may be gone forever! Just my 2 cents here!
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Old 11-21-2008, 07:28 PM   #20 (permalink)
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I've sent messages to the admin on the south east trout forum a few times asking if they wouldnt mind prompting wilhelm to respond. Everyone is passionate about their positions about Tellico. Wilhelm is not passionate enough to help explain/acknowledge inaccuracies in the selc/tu propaganda. Its looks like he's a trout posuer
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Old 11-21-2008, 08:26 PM   #21 (permalink)
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Call him and talk to him about it. I'm sure he would take it in stride
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