Logging Operation going on in Tellico OHV

[Crawfords Campground]

Here's one for you folks and all of the enviro's that lurk. I had a nice conversation with one of the locals in the office this morning. He tells me that one of his relatives just purchased a section of timber from the FS. This explains the road that is just past Allen Gap pay station. The operation starts there and makes it's way through Harsaw Gap then into the area of Greasey Creek. The next tract will take the operation to Tipton Creek and Beaver Dam Bald (Upper 2).
I wonder if this is a way to get a new trail cut into the OHV area that will not impact the watershed entering the designated brook trout waters of Upper Tellico and would be no cost to the FS. Basically, this could be a significant trail section that basically bypasses the worst alleged silt trail segments.
Or this could be just another business as usual operation of our government.
This is information that needs to be investigated!

[JC NC]

Pic of logging taken 6-13-09. Not being too careful of the trees it doesn't look like! Also, I didn't see much in the way of erosion control

[k9crazy]

Originally Posted by ROCKRAWL

The plans the FS have for the OHV are underway and they are irreversible IMO.I would not be surprised to see some development in the Tellico OHV area(in the form of cabins,etc..), in the future but no trailriding.The forest service have made thier decision and I hate to say it but usually when they make that decision, its final.I know people will say I have a negative attitude but I'm being realistic.I want everyone to keep in mind the closure of the trails on the Tennesee side 15 or 20 years ago,that closure is still in effect.

I understand that you feel like there is no hope, but out of respect for the rest of us that are still trying...and that do believe that there is hope, could you please keep your negative attitude to yourself for a while? Not trying to be rude, but politely asking you.

Logging and OHV use are two very different uses. The FS was founded on logging. Does it make a mess, yes. In fact, it makes more of a mess than anything we would do. So what can we do?

Well, write to the FS and tell them that they are operating a ground disturbing activity without silt fences and you think that they are contributing to the degradation of aquatic habitat in the area. Also tell them that you think that they are in violation of water quality standards in the state of NC and certainly are not adhering to their own standards of "no visable sediment." Then call the state and complain. Then call the county and complain that there is an unpermitted activity.

NCDWQ:
Bob Guerra –
Environmental Specialist (ROC*)
bob.guerra@ncdenr.gov, 919-807-6387


Cherokee County:
(828) 837-6730
59 Hiwassee Street
Suite 101
Murphy, NC 28906

Forest Service (Region 8):
1720 Peachtree Road NW, Atlanta, GA 30309

Director Forest Management Timber
Roger W. Williams, 404-347-7396

Regional Forester
Elizabeth Agpaoa, 404-347-4177

[GSW]

Originally Posted by ROCKRAWL

Pirate is an OPEN forum for peolpe to express thier opinions and I'm sorry if you don't like mine but I dont care.People who have been wheeling long enough to see Slickrock grow to 5 times its size in 10 years know that Tellico was on its way out and personally I cant believe it lasted as long as it did.Contrary to what You might believe, Tellico is not the only place to ride and I think it sucks that there is tons of other,better places to ride that are being ignored and have NO HELP!

You're right, this is an open forum and you're entitled to your own opinion. Here comes mine:

You seem to bring the negativity pretty regularly in this forum. The only possible beneficiary of your gloom and doom is you, in the instance that you are successful in destroying morale and derailing the efforts of those who wish to preserve the Tellico OHV. In other words, a self-fulfilling prophecy. I'll go ahead and shatter the suspense. Nobody here will be patting you on the back if you happen to be correct. So what's the point?

[McCracken]

I'll chime in too, what the heck. I think I know what his answer will be judging from his last response. Yes there are other areas out there that need assistance too. Why not start something yourself? If you already are, good for you but I personally haven't seen much about it. So you think Tellico is a waste, you're entitled to your opinion but you're obviously calling out all the members on this board that continue to fight for your privelege to wheel at those "better" places. Of course that is until they get shut down but you won't let that happen. Will you?

This has become broken record. The reason for the fight is because of legal precedence. If they win then it will be 10x easier to shut down the next place and then the next. I was even told numerous times by a OHV park to please stay on the trail because they were already getting pressure from other anti-OHV groups about water quality. You act like this means nothing but I really think you're missing the point.

I applaud your spirit for other OHVs and I agree that they need help too but you're missing the big picture. It's not about a better park, it's about saving the areas we have left for it.

[JC NC]

Logging and OHV use are separate issues, agreed, but we know that logging, even with proper erosion control measures, contributes to sedimentation. It just burns me up that they can log but we can't ride Anyway, I will continue to keep up the fight to save the OHV trails and hope that justice will win out!

[tellico_rocks]

wow! thats all i got to say.........

[cdazzle]

Originally Posted by ROCKRAWL

Another thing is... I'm done.

Thank you.

[k9crazy]

Originally Posted by JC NC

Logging and OHV use are separate issues, agreed, but we know that logging, even with proper erosion control measures, contributes to sedimentation. It just burns me up that they can log but we can't ride Anyway, I will continue to keep up the fight to save the OHV trails and hope that justice will win out!

Right there with you on that one. Call the county, call the state, write to you congress-people. Ask that very question.

[k9crazy]

Originally Posted by ROCKRAWL

Another thing is... Nobody can say the next move that we as the SFWDA will make.There is no proof of where the money the SFWDA has collected, has gone but you continue to want more.I have been a member of the SFWDA for a long time but no longer because I do not feel they represent me.I'm done.

I am sure that SFWDA would be happy to provide anyone with a statement (should they ask nicely) of the accounts. In fact, it's announced to the members at every meeting for everyone to hear. So, if anyone would like to know more, I'd encourage you to email our treasurer (you can find his email on our website) or come to a meeting.

And as far as our strategy, we had a call tonight to discuss what our next steps are. As soon as we have some loose ends tied up, we'll be talking more publicly about what our plans are. As for now, the only thing we can do is wait. The ball is in the FS court and we are preparing for whatever decision comes down.

[k9crazy]

Originally Posted by ROCKRAWL

Work for the southeast! BTW its in the title of your organization.

Here is where we don't agree. As it was said above, this isn't just about Tellico. This IS about the southeast. The anti-access groups are working to eliminate our preferred form of recreation. Period. That doesn't mean eliminate it from Tellico or from a private park or from a beach, it means ALL OF IT. And they will use Tellico as a legal precedent to do it. If SELC and TU win this argument, it is only a matter of time before URE falls...and then they'll go after the private parks using the Clean Water Act (which is probably the most powerful environmental act on the books) to do it. So I do think that you don't see the big picture. This isn't just about Tellico. Sure, maybe in the past Southern's spent the lions share of their time and money on one area, but looking back, I can't say that it wasn't well spent. We have a good case, stong arguments, and a long history of stewardship there. It is a pivotal fight in the battle for land use in the US, and we're going to fight closure tooth and nail.

Believe what you want to, man, it's your perogative. But in this fight you are dead wrong. What we are doing at Tellico is fighting for the SE and for OHV rights across the country.

[McCracken]

Originally Posted by ROCKRAWL

I was called an idiot on here by you guys "for not seeing the big picture"when I think I'm the only one who sees the big picture.

That was me and I stand by that statement.

[cdazzle]

Just thinking....if there needs to be a "bash SFWDA thread" created in the Southeast section to keep the threads in the Tellico Section from turning into such....maybe SOMEONE could just create one and all the like- minded folk could hang out in there. Not advocating the existance of such, but it would create a place where the effectiveness of SFWDA could be debated or whatever...instead of it coming up in every other Tellico thread.

[McCracken]

We had that before and it ended after a couple pages. I prefer a good thread about that actually. I'd rather hear what the membership has to say then watch individuals pop in from time to time and throw out negativity.

Some of their questions could be answered if they would just ask instead of making accuations about it. I think the Southern leadership needs to hear what people have to say. The membership now is different and constantly changing. They need to know how they can help their membership but on the converse side of that, people need to realize they are also going to need to step up and help if they want any immediate changes.

[cdazzle]

FWIW, I'd prefer a good thread as well....filled with constructive commentary. However, the likelihood of such thread being hijacked and diluted with other thoughts and "in defense of" statements is highly probable.

Now.... I'm done hijacking this thread.

[Eventhough]

Didn't someone say something about a new road and a clear cut?

[pfreer3]

Lets stir the pot & send the logging pics to the Trouts Unlimited guys.

There's nothing harder on environment than logging.

[Icemanii]

To me, the fight for Tellico is a fight for all of OHV use. The lose of any area for whatever reason actually makes it easier for the opposition to close more areas. They use the example of where they have closed areas to show the need to close more.

Bashing SFWDA is not the way to save Tellico or any other area we want to keep. If you are unhappy with the organization, work to change it.

Those of you who live in areas with good choices for wheeling don't realize what you have. To not fight for it would be crazy. Here in MI, we have a couple of new parks opening up, but for the most part, we have to drive at least 6 hours to hit a good wheeling location.

Letting any area we have get closed without exhausting all means of fighting is unacceptable. Never surrender should be the motto in the fight to preserve our right to public lands.

[cdazzle]

Well said Iceman.

[jimbo92]

Everybody needs to stay cool about this until we are positve of the motives. Otherwise we could inadvertintly dig our own grave if they are indeed creating more trails or better access. Granted its a loooong shot that that's what they are doing but it would suck to ruin it if by chance they are

[Eventhough]

OK - back on topic please.

Can someone pinpoint on a map where this road/trail is located?

[Crawfords Campground]

I am in Orlando Fl for the week and will try to get down to the logging road to take some pics of the operation when I get back. I plan on sending them to Con. Shuler's Office and to the news paper. Every logging operation I have seen up here is completely backwards. You could not get away with brush piled up to be an effective silt barrier on a norml job site. Double standards are not acceptible. Where are the tree huggers and animal rights folks?

[weedwacker]

I will be passing over in a private aircraft the second week in July. If someone framiliar with the area will post up some heading and distance coordinates from Andrews/Murphy airport I will attempt to get some good photos. If avgas was not 5-6 bucks a gallon I'd make a trip just to take the pictures.

[k9crazy]

Sorry, don't mean to keep up the hijack but, I can't ignore this.

Originally Posted by ROCKRAWL

People on a salary lose passion,we need volunteers.

What are you talking about? None of us get paid a dime. Sorry, but if you think that the money we are trying to raise is going into our pockets, you are way, way off base. It's all vounteer time.

[funkskunk]

Originally Posted by ROCKRAWL

People on a salary lose passion,we need volunteers.

Well it's a good thing Southern is all volunteers then huh!?! go whine some where else moron