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Old 07-31-2009, 12:32 PM   #1 (permalink)
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Road widening in the park

How can we be shut out of the park for water sediment issues only to have more roads created, widened, and hill sides cut?
I walked a few areas of the park yesterday. Some of the road widening I saw yesterday was directly adjacent to running water. This work was recently done and was washed out in several areas, some directly above the Tellico river. Trees where pushed over and 1000's of tons of gravel where added to the trail that leads to the top of the rock garden from the Tn side. This area was gated but I walked in a few miles. Looks like the intire road is about 4 feet wider with some even wider areas for turnoffs. The road has minimal grass seed down and some hay spread but nothing as substantial as the work done in the past by SFWD on the trails with whole bails, and sediment screens.

I got a bunch of pics to document.

Odd that the forest service does not have the resources for trail maintenance but can help out the loging operations?

I guess TU thinks the sediment from these operations is not an issue?? I sure saw more sediment runoff from the road widening than I have ever witnessed on the trails in my 15+ years of riding them.
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Old 07-31-2009, 12:53 PM   #2 (permalink)
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Old 07-31-2009, 01:07 PM   #3 (permalink)
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new highway at top of rock garden.
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Old 07-31-2009, 01:13 PM   #4 (permalink)
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run off from road widening directly into stream above Tellico river
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Old 07-31-2009, 01:18 PM   #5 (permalink)
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fish friendly logging just off trail 1 closer to NC side.
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Old 07-31-2009, 01:44 PM   #6 (permalink)
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I had already sent off an email to steve lohr after reading his note at the top of upper 2 and witnessing the logging ops there. Are the oil drums still sitting around the logging equip on trail one?
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Old 07-31-2009, 02:42 PM   #7 (permalink)
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I had already sent off an email to steve lohr after reading his note at the top of upper 2 and witnessing the logging ops there. Are the oil drums still sitting around the logging equip on trail one?

I stayed away from the equipment.

The paved lot next to the pay station at the Tn. side. FS finally putting money into this place, plathetic.
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Old 07-31-2009, 02:57 PM   #8 (permalink)
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Basically, we got fucked in the ass with zero legitimate representation. They knew we were a fucking joke and ran us over with a steam roller. And they know we won't do a goddam thing about it.

There is no use in keeping on with this bullshit unless we are going to actually DO something instead of on here talking about it. We all know good and fucking well the FS knows about the erosion going on now, but it's in the name of "good" so there is nothing wrong with it in there eyes. The NFS is doing what it is meant to do. Read their history and mission http://www.fs.fed.us/

End of story. RIP Tellico
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Old 07-31-2009, 02:59 PM   #9 (permalink)
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All that said, I believe they have intentions of letting us back in there one day. 5-10 years down the road? Who knows, but we will probably get our turn at it again.
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Old 07-31-2009, 04:04 PM   #10 (permalink)
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http://www.fs.fed.us/news/2009/relea...projects.shtml

North Carolina gets a little over $9 million for trail repair. Any for Tellico? Dunno.

If you've got time to bitch about whats going on take 5 min out to write a letter. Keep writing. Dont let them forget.
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Old 07-31-2009, 04:47 PM   #11 (permalink)
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Did some more reading. Almost half million for more monitoring and testing in Tellico. Keep testing until you get the results you want. Lots of money for bridge repair in the national forest that Tellico is located in.

I wrote another letter suggesting that they use that money to expand the Tellico ohv area and develop more trails.
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Old 07-31-2009, 06:21 PM   #12 (permalink)
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Quote: If you've got time to bitch about whats going on take 5 min out to write a letter. Keep writing. Dont let them forget.


Right on, I don't plan on rolling over on this!

I am going to take every oppurtunity I can the maake this closure look like the stupid idea it is.
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Old 07-31-2009, 09:13 PM   #13 (permalink)
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Write letters,write letters,Im so tired of hearing that bull shit.
I guess it is easier to bitch on pirate about what other people are doing instead of doing something yourself. I cant drive up to the FS office everytime I feel like saying something. But I can take 5 min out of my busy day to shoot an email to someone. What'd you do today? Why bother to try and bring down people that are still trying to do something? HUh Wilhelm?
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Old 07-31-2009, 09:19 PM   #14 (permalink)
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I agree. Quit bitching about what others are doing. I miss Tellico a lot, as do many many others that I know. I will continue to do whatever I can to get Tellico back open. Whether it's donating, writing, or just whatever. I feel for the folks in that area as they are seeing a drastic change in visitors and income. I will continue to keep my spirits positive and that it will reopen again soon.
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Old 08-01-2009, 06:56 AM   #15 (permalink)
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Write letters,write letters,Im so tired of hearing that bull shit.
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I guess it is easier to bitch on pirate about what other people are doing instead of doing something yourself. I cant drive up to the FS office everytime I feel like saying something. But I can take 5 min out of my busy day to shoot an email to someone. What'd you do today? Why bother to try and bring down people that are still trying to do something? HUh Wilhelm?
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How many fucking emails are you going to send how many letters are you going to write that fall on deaf ears.This whole Tellico forum is in denial and its unfolding right in front of your faces.Give some more money


Say again DJ? Gerken is that you? Why are you even here? What is your purpose? Do you have a mission? A plan? A vague idea? Lead, follow, or get the fuck out of the way. You sound like a "get out of the way" kinda guy.
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Old 08-01-2009, 08:27 AM   #16 (permalink)
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oh boy...... this is better than comedy central!
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Old 08-01-2009, 08:45 AM   #17 (permalink)
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Where are you leading to then? You cant just lead away. Leading implies your going toward some goal. You've got an plan, better organization, you've already been working in your free time? Show us what you've done. If people are that unhappy with SFWDA they might follow you to a solution. Start your own organization that can help maintain or fight for all the areas in the south. I think a lot of people are focused on Tellico right now because its the current battleground.

As for my yellowxj? Drive right over it? What are you...16..17...what you drive and the size of your dick matter to no one except you. One day you'll be old enough to realize that.

For what its worth, my xj got sold last year, its in Alabama now(I think). I sold it for two reasons, build something smaller to make the trails more challenging, and use the extra money to pay bills. Any pussy can strap one tons or rockwells on a buggy or tj or whatever, fit 47's and climb all over the trails in Tellico. I was looking for harder and harder lines and trails when I realized I was already driving over them. I couldnt change the trails but I could change my vehicles capabilities. Good bye flex, good bye one tons, good bye lockers...I built an xj on 31's with just a rear limited slip, to lose all your "hard core" conveniencies made it hard again... I had fun with that but eventually that got sold to. And I built another one and that got sold too. Then my wifes tubed xj went to Cincinatti when we needed more money to keep the business afloat.

You see, I had a 4x4 shop out side of Tellico. There used to be 5, Crawlers, Farmers, Smokey Mountian, B & B, and our shop. Now there are two of them, mine and Farmers(now Bears) that are working on 4x4's part time and working on what ever else we can get in the shop. My shop will probably be closing soon. The accountant told me I should have given up last year. I'm working hard on not losing my building, house, and land. No matter what happens with Tellico in the future, my business as a business is done for. I wouldnt have the money to start it up again. Its over. Took the shot at a dream job and a year after we opened the trails start getting closed and the economy crashes. Atleast I took the shot. Now my family cant take vacations like we used to. My kids arent getting to do all the extra curricular activities that I'd like them to be enjoying. Heck, we arent even eating the same foods we used to.

And with all that happening I'm still writing letters, complaining and arguing, and helping out when ever I can. I've gone almost all the way through an application process that should land me in a decent job out west. But I'm still writing letters. Give me a better option and I'll take it. Your not presenting an option.
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Old 08-01-2009, 10:01 AM   #18 (permalink)
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Thank god the whole 4x4 community does not have that roll over and take it in the butt attitude.

For those doing something constructive, thanks! I am sure the next announcement from the FS will allow us to focus our efforts as well as those of SFWD, whatever that may be.
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Old 08-01-2009, 10:42 AM   #19 (permalink)
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ROCKRAWL: It was good to have had Tellico even if it never comes back. My kids will never forget. If it opens again you'll find me behind a herd of buggies, grinding my...zj maybe...on 31's up lower 2
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Old 08-01-2009, 10:44 AM   #20 (permalink)
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rockrawl, either come up with a better plan/decision or go back to playing on your little tncrawlers site. Your constant whining and bitching does nothing to help and just makes you look like a clown.

Giving up is exactly what others want and you have done so. They have you right where they want you, whining and complaining, but doing nothing.

Back on topic, the paving gives me the impression these changes were in the plans for a while. Looks like the FS has plans to close a lot of this area to the public for the purpose of making $$.
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Old 08-01-2009, 11:00 AM   #21 (permalink)
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politics
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Old 08-01-2009, 11:02 AM   #22 (permalink)
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politics
and big business money.
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Old 08-01-2009, 11:13 AM   #23 (permalink)
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Where are you leading to then? You cant just lead away. Leading implies your going toward some goal. You've got an plan, better organization, you've already been working in your free time? Show us what you've done. If people are that unhappy with SFWDA they might follow you to a solution. Start your own organization that can help maintain or fight for all the areas in the south. I think a lot of people are focused on Tellico right now because its the current battleground.

As for my yellowxj? Drive right over it? What are you...16..17...what you drive and the size of your dick matter to no one except you. One day you'll be old enough to realize that.

For what its worth, my xj got sold last year, its in Alabama now(I think). I sold it for two reasons, build something smaller to make the trails more challenging, and use the extra money to pay bills. Any pussy can strap one tons or rockwells on a buggy or tj or whatever, fit 47's and climb all over the trails in Tellico. I was looking for harder and harder lines and trails when I realized I was already driving over them. I couldnt change the trails but I could change my vehicles capabilities. Good bye flex, good bye one tons, good bye lockers...I built an xj on 31's with just a rear limited slip, to lose all your "hard core" conveniencies made it hard again... I had fun with that but eventually that got sold to. And I built another one and that got sold too. Then my wifes tubed xj went to Cincinatti when we needed more money to keep the business afloat.

You see, I had a 4x4 shop out side of Tellico. There used to be 5, Crawlers, Farmers, Smokey Mountian, B & B, and our shop. Now there are two of them, mine and Farmers(now Bears) that are working on 4x4's part time and working on what ever else we can get in the shop. My shop will probably be closing soon. The accountant told me I should have given up last year. I'm working hard on not losing my building, house, and land. No matter what happens with Tellico in the future, my business as a business is done for. I wouldnt have the money to start it up again. Its over. Took the shot at a dream job and a year after we opened the trails start getting closed and the economy crashes. Atleast I took the shot. Now my family cant take vacations like we used to. My kids arent getting to do all the extra curricular activities that I'd like them to be enjoying. Heck, we arent even eating the same foods we used to.

And with all that happening I'm still writing letters, complaining and arguing, and helping out when ever I can. I've gone almost all the way through an application process that should land me in a decent job out west. But I'm still writing letters. Give me a better option and I'll take it. Your not presenting an option.
I commend you for your efforts. I'm in a similar boat to you... hard times aren't they?

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Thank god the whole 4x4 community does not have that roll over and take it in the butt attitude.

For those doing something constructive, thanks! I am sure the next announcement from the FS will allow us to focus our efforts as well as those of SFWD, whatever that may be.
Exactly.

The road paving was proposed early in the process and IIRC was separate and predated the EA and Transportation Plan/study. The timber operation was also separate from but mentioned in the EA. So - the FS is not rolling over us - BUT - we need to use this as an opportunity. Document everything - continue speaking with your elected representatives. We need them on the bandwagon. We need them to recognize how much of a hurting the trails being closed is putting on the local economy and especially local families who are already hurting from a down economy.

So you want someone bird dogging this? Heck, pay my salary and I'll put 85-90 hours per week ONLY into Tellico. I'll be on the ground documenting everything, meeting with the FS, meeting with elected representatives, meeting with business owners, local movers and shakers, meeting with lawyers, etc. Heck - this sort of situation is right up my professional alley. In the mean time though I have to support my family so those hours go into my business.

If anyone wants to make a difference then we need people contacting their local officials, and all the others I listed above. You might laugh but the squeaky wheel gets the grease. Ever heard of that? If you think one person can't make a difference then why would you ever consider voting? BECAUSE IT IS THE PRINCIPLE! Once the Tellico situation is over, and God forbid the trails never open again, TU will then focus on other trail systems for closure with Tellico as a huge notch on its gun stock. Don't believe me - then just watch.

In the meantime I'm going to keep doing everything I can in my meager free time and with my meager dollars to support SFWDA because they are spearheading the effort to get the trails back open. The lawyers are waiting on timing. They can't file suit prematurely, have it dismissed with prejudice, and then try to come right back a few weeks or months later and refile - don't work that way.

To everyone fighting the good fight - I commend you. To those who aren't - well...
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Old 08-01-2009, 11:32 AM   #24 (permalink)
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I support Tellico but I dont think enough has been done to save it and I wont support the SFWDA,good for you guys if you do.If you built a bussiness around Tellico thinking the trails will be there forever IMO I think it was a mistake.
So what can you build a business around then? Nothing is guaranteed forever. Tellico has been around for decades - seems like a decent place for a 4x4 shop. Should Danny have never bought Crawford's? He's adapting - that is the key to a good business man. Sounds like yellowxj is adapting too.

My business might go kaput in a year - who knows. Something that I couldn't forsee might happen and I'll try to adapt them too. In the mean time I recommend that you don't crap on someone's business when they are busting their balls to keep a roof over their family's head and food in their family's stomach. It looks very, very bad - is in very poor taste - and lacks any tact whatsoever.

ETA - if you support Tellico then it only makes sense to support the fight - pick your own fight with SFWDA after the closure situation is settled. By picking a fight with SFWDA when they are leading the fight to reopen Tellico and are the key group that supports Tellico then you are effectively crapping on Tellico - kinda counter intuitive to what you just stated.

ETA2 - ROCKRAWL, do you want to address any of my other points? I'm not trying to pick a fight with ya, just trying really hard to understand your justification for your position and so far I'm not understanding much...

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Old 08-01-2009, 12:16 PM   #25 (permalink)
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They are doing all kinds of work in Tellico right now and there is still no lawsuit. How long do people have to wait? I get on here and speak for alot of people who are not regulars on this board,I am not alone and I guess some people dont like what I say but I am just speaking realalisticly.
I'm ready to see a lawsuit also - as I see things it is logistically the next logical step in the process. k9crazy (SFWDA land mgmt officer) has been on here before and has said that the time is not now but once the USFS makes a decision. How I see it, separate from what SFWDA says, if they were to file suit now it would take $$$ to do that and then depending on what the USFS does they would then probably have to revise their suit which means extra $$$. I've seen you complaining a ton about SFWDA asking for donations. Seems that saying you want to see a lawsuit now means they would potentially be wasting the donations they have been given so far. Again, I don't understand your argument.

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I am not putting down anybodys bussiness,
You said "If you built a bussiness around Tellico thinking the trails will be there forever IMO I think it was a mistake."

and

"Sorry for you loses both recreational and personal...but really if you opened a 4X4 shop in that area based on the trails at Tellico staying open, that was a bad decision,"

then make fun of a guy who sold his rig to support his family and taunt him that you could drive over his Saturn. You also have one helluva tone with anything to do about Tellico. Granted, it is difficult to read someone over the interweb but you've been on here enough that I think everyone has the jist of your demeanor. What are you trying to prove? If you want to pick on someone why don't you pick on me? Or Heather? Or Danny? Who is going to be your next target? Again, I don't understand where you are coming from and I REALLY am trying.

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everytime I have ridden Tellico the conversation always came up...How long will this last?
I'll ask the same question - "How long will this last?" You know the answer? If you do please let me know because I'm pretty sure I am correct when I say that no one knows. I want to see the suit filed ASAP but I also realize that SFWDA is hurting for funds and they are doing what they can with what they've got. If they had half a million in their Rescue Tellico account I bet things would progressing a bit different but SFWDA doesn't have that kind of funding and TU does. When you are outgunned (in this case it is funding) you have to be cautions. This isn't a poker game where when you are about of money you have to throw caution to the wind and try to win a few hands to get back in things. If SFWDA does that and they run out of money it is over - plain and simple - unless you want to bankroll them.

ETA: And it won't just be over for the trails, it will be over for many families that rely on the economic impact from the trails too. It is not just Danny, and Tellico Cabins, and yellowxy - the economic impact of tourism is much wider than that and especially in the case of the Tellico trails. That is something I deal with for a living - I could write a dang Thesis, or probably better yet a dissertation on the Tellico situation (come to think of it that is really a good idea) but please realize that this is much bigger than just a few trails. The situation we are in right now reaches into many families and local communities. By doing what you are doing here you are hurting all of these people - not just SFWDA.

Once again, I'm not attacking you here or anyone else - just still trying to understand your argument. I do understand you are frustrated and I am too - just as much if not more than you but I am not taking it out on the main group that is working to save Tellico.

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