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Old 11-28-2001, 06:27 PM   #1 (permalink)
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missing links/dls shackles

Has anybody tried using a missing link or dls shackle on the rear of the front springs after doing a shackle revesal I know there will
be issues with the driveshaft pinion angle not to mention caster/camber but with that aside I think you could get a nice approach angle and still have alot more droop in the front what do you guy's think??
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Old 11-28-2001, 06:50 PM   #2 (permalink)
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Shackle reversal is highly over rated. The theory is to get a better aproach angle. But once you do the math , and decide that you have to pull the axle ahead to help counteract tire rebound towards the fender, and using rear springs up front. You are no further ahead.

As far as better road Ride, who cares.

If you add a missing link, or goofie on the rear of the spring , you will also need a very long travel sprine. If not you will be dumping your driveshaft at every rock.

What is the best way to increase your approach angle?
coils. 90 degree aproach angle!!!!!!!!!!!!

what trails are you running? what size tires?

There are also issues with brake dive too.
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Old 11-28-2001, 07:29 PM   #3 (permalink)
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i got like a 79* approach angle with my shackle reverse... thats better clearance than the shackle up front.
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Old 11-29-2001, 05:23 AM   #4 (permalink)
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Re: missing links/dls shackles

Quote:
Originally posted by Rockrat
Has anybody tried using a missing link or dls shackle on the rear of the front springs after doing a shackle revesal I know there will
be issues with the driveshaft pinion angle not to mention caster/camber but with that aside I think you could get a nice approach angle and still have alot more droop in the front what do you guy's think??
With YJ's and shackle reverse you don't need a very long shackle. Mine is 4" hole to hole and I can easily max out a Rancho 9012, even with the shock tipped back at a 30 degree angle. Didn't have the camera with me but we were able to lift the pass rear tire of my Zuk 38" with all four tires still on the ground, the drivers side rear tire was still sitting on the sidewall (would have been the first to lift). Here's a picture at about 33 inches. Can't see needing much more flex, you'd be better off spending the time and energy working on extending the wheelbase.

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Old 11-29-2001, 08:23 AM   #5 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally posted by mudlite
Shackle reversal is highly over rated. The theory is to get a better aproach angle. But once you do the math , and decide that you have to pull the axle ahead to help counteract tire rebound towards the fender, and using rear springs up front. You are no further ahead.

MY MATH SUCKS, BUT MY S.R. SEEMS TO WORK JUST FINE, THANKS

As far as better road Ride, who cares.

I DO, MY BACK LOVES ME FOR IT.

If you add a missing link, or goofie on the rear of the spring , you will also need a very long travel sprine. If not you will be dumping your driveshaft at every rock.

"SPRINES" ALSO ARE VERY RARE, I HEAR.

What is the best way to increase your approach angle?
coils. 90 degree aproach angle!!!!!!!!!!!!

NAH, "SAWZALL"

what trails are you running? what size tires?

"WEB", "CYBER", "KNIGHT ST.", "7-11". (THIS LAST ONE IS VERY DIFFICULT WHILE TRYING TO CARRY SLURPEE AND NOT SPILL.)

There are also issues with brake dive too.
WHAT, TO CHICKEN TO DO A "BRAKEY" ? TSK TSK

oh, Mud. yer such an opinionated, know it all, blowhard.

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Old 11-29-2001, 08:40 AM   #6 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally posted by UZI 9mm


WHAT, TO CHICKEN TO DO A "BRAKEY" ? TSK TSK

oh, Mud. yer such a great guy, and you know it all too.

Everyone is allowed there opinion. IMHO I never saw the need.
I seriously doult that it makes that much of a differance on the road. Especially if you are running a tire bigger than a 33.

I guess its a trend. The Jeep boys figured out that it was useless, you may too one day................

Blowhard, Bite Me!!!!!!!!!!
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Old 11-29-2001, 09:06 AM   #7 (permalink)
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'morning, Mud.
my ride is soft and cushy (relatively speaking, of course...) definately an improvement over stock imho.
i'm quite happy with sticking to 31"-33" tires as you set off a chain reaction of $$ when going larger.that, i neither need, nor want. i can only afford so much. i constantly smile when thinking to myself "this is so cool that i can have fun on the weekends, and still drive this thing comfortably to work everyday".

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Old 11-29-2001, 10:56 AM   #8 (permalink)
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Afternoon 9mm.
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Old 11-29-2001, 11:48 AM   #9 (permalink)
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Actually, the shackle reverse on my old CJ5 made a world of difference - but only on the street. And I care about ride quality... until I can afford a tow rig, that is.

Also, you say that there isn't much of an effect on the approach angle, since you have to move the tires forward? What exactly do you think moving the tires closer to the front of the rig is going to do to your approach angle? It sure as hell ain't going to hurt.
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Old 11-29-2001, 12:14 PM   #10 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally posted by Yota_San
Actually, the shackle reverse on my old CJ5 made a world of difference - but only on the street. And I care about ride quality... until I can afford a tow rig, that is.

Also, you say that there isn't much of an effect on the approach angle, since you have to move the tires forward? What exactly do you think moving the tires closer to the front of the rig is going to do to your approach angle? It sure as hell ain't going to hurt.
let me clarify. When you go to do a S/R you should also move the axle ahead. ( if you paln on running bigger tires. To do this you would use a YJ spring or a rear sammie that are 3 or 4 inches longer. So you know have to move the front mounting point forward too. You do this by lengthening the frame, hense taking approach angle away.

You do gain alittle. My point is , is it worth it?
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Old 11-29-2001, 02:47 PM   #11 (permalink)
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aren't there springs that are not "symetrical"? ie: with the perch mounting flat area shorter/longer distance from the eyes?
also, if this is too rare an item, what about re-drilling the pack slightly forward of the original hole*? i'm sure i've heard about both these options being done, wouldn't that kill two birds with one stone?

* combined of course, with moving the rear spring eye-to-frame mounting location further back as well.


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Old 11-29-2001, 03:14 PM   #12 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally posted by mudlite
Shackle reversal is highly over rated.
All I know is I damn-near went endover backwards on Helicopter Pad because of missing link shackles. They opened up, shifting my center of gravity from "okay" to "OH SHIT!". Those things are alright I guess for everything But climbing, although sloppy on the street (a buddy of mine put on a panhard bar & it helped a lot).

I can see a shackle-reverse in my near future, & it Ain't 'cause a no TREND
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Old 11-29-2001, 08:35 PM   #13 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally posted by mudlite


let me clarify. When you go to do a S/R you should also move the axle ahead. ( if you paln on running bigger tires. To do this you would use a YJ spring or a rear sammie that are 3 or 4 inches longer. So you know have to move the front mounting point forward too. You do this by lengthening the frame, hense taking approach angle away.

You do gain alittle. My point is , is it worth it?

Yes it's worth it, check out the CSC kit. Notice how the new spring mounting point is nearly as high as the top of the original shackle mount.



I tried obstacles both before and after with mine and I was amazed at the stuff I could climb up on without having to approach at an angle. Another benefit was while climbing the front axle walks forward helping to get the front tires farther over the top of the obstacle. There's an obstacle out by Dave's, a 5 foot nearly vertical ledge that I tried with the S/R and before with the shackle in front. The S/R eased right up it while the shackle in front setup had a lot of rear tire bouncing. There was no way to let it crawl up it since the front tires were just over the top when the rear ones started climbing.
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Old 11-29-2001, 09:02 PM   #14 (permalink)
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shackle

I have the rear sami's upfront now with wranglers on the rear
i also have a dls shackle set up at all 4 corners my front axle is already moved up about an 1to 1-1/2 what I'm looking to do is just getting the front spring up closer to the frame instead of hanging out as a catch all. but would still like to use my dls in the rear of the front spring's if possible just wonderd if any one had tryed this I realy dont care about street driving it's only use is offroad thanx for the input guys
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Old 11-30-2001, 06:48 AM   #15 (permalink)
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Re: shackle

Quote:
Originally posted by Rockrat
I have the rear sami's upfront now with wranglers on the rear
i also have a dls shackle set up at all 4 corners my front axle is already moved up about an 1to 1-1/2 what I'm looking to do is just getting the front spring up closer to the frame instead of hanging out as a catch all. but would still like to use my dls in the rear of the front spring's if possible just wonderd if any one had tryed this I realy dont care about street driving it's only use is offroad thanx for the input guys
Should have mentioned this in my first post. Fred from CSC tried a link type shackle up front. He said it didn't work. There used to be pictures of it on the CSC site but they seem to be gone now. With a 6" hole to hole shackle up front I separated my driveshaft (11" of spline). Again, a small shackle will max out your shocks and driveshaft easily. The other thing I noticed when building the shackle for the front end was the length was real critical (a lot more so than the rear shackles). 5/8"difference in the shackle length was the difference between the shackle sitting at a nice 45 degree and and laying against the frame when I did my S/R.
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Old 11-30-2001, 07:34 AM   #16 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally posted by PROJSAM



Yes it's worth it, check out the CSC kit. Notice how the new spring mounting point is nearly as high as the top of the original shackle mount.



I tried obstacles both before and after with mine and I was amazed at the stuff I could climb up on without having to approach at an angle. Another benefit was while climbing the front axle walks forward helping to get the front tires farther over the top of the obstacle. There's an obstacle out by Dave's, a 5 foot nearly vertical ledge that I tried with the S/R and before with the shackle in front. The S/R eased right up it while the shackle in front setup had a lot of rear tire bouncing. There was no way to let it crawl up it since the front tires were just over the top when the rear ones started climbing.
So I'm not sure how this gives you a better approach angle?
Draw in the old shackle. Now drwa a line for the angle of approach for both. Not much difference that I can see....maybe .5 degree?
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Old 11-30-2001, 11:34 AM   #17 (permalink)
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Your right as long as your using a short stock shackle which limits your flex. throw in the longer shackle or missing link shackle to get closer to YJ flex and your way better of with the S/R.
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Old 12-03-2001, 11:25 AM   #18 (permalink)
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Here's a gratuitous flex shot from this weekend.

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Old 12-03-2001, 11:31 AM   #19 (permalink)
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Here's a gratuitous flex shot from this weekend.

Not bad, how does the rear flex? Does she fear ballanced?
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Old 12-04-2001, 04:24 PM   #20 (permalink)
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I don't really have a recent shot showing the rear flex. This is when I had 32's, stock axles. I think it flexed pretty good considering how much further outboard the rear springs are than the front. On the trail it feels balanced, balanced enough to actually balance in the last picture





My next step is to flat bed the rear and extend the wheelbase out back another 5-8 inches. When I do that I am going to try and inboard the rear springs inline with the fronts. Anyone done this on a Zuk yet?
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