S/R Brake Dive?

[0ILBURNER]

Hey Guys,

Those of you running a front shackle-reversal: do you have problems off-road with the nose diving (worse than with front-mounted shackles) when braking on Steep hills? <IMG SRC="smilies/eek.gif" border="0">

[ 10-12-2001: Message edited by: 0ILBURNER ]

[Arizona Zuk]

Originally posted by 0ILBURNER:
<STRONG>Hey Guys,

Those of you running a front shackle-reversal, do you have problems with brake dive going down Steep hills? <IMG SRC="smilies/eek.gif" border="0"></STRONG>

I don't...with the CSC Suspension..

[M.Martian]

I've got the CSC kit with stock 5 leaf packs front and rear. I get brake dive on mine when I step on the brakes at a stop. I haven't noticed much brake dive when going down hill while on the brakes though (granted usually I'm trying to pick up speed when going down hill to make up for the up hill I know is coming).

I went straight from bone stock to YJ's spring under, then over so I went straight from short stiff springs to long soft springs.

[0ILBURNER]

OK you CSC guys, let me try this another way:
You're crawlin' along a gnarly part of a rocky trail, and there is an Extreemly steep section (goin' downhill)right in front of you. You have several options available to you, some popular ones are:
A. Close yer eyes & GAS IT. <IMG SRC="smilies/biggrin.gif" border="0">
B. Engage your Klune-V or whatever lowest gears you have & crawl down.
C. Panic and stab the brake pedal.

In options B & C, the vehicle will experience a sudden deceleration - do you think that having a shackle-reverse causes your weight to shift forward faster than when you had the shackles up front? If so is it a problem?
(Option "A" not applicable to brake dive)

[ 10-12-2001: Message edited by: 0ILBURNER ]

[poppycock]

i went s/r with my yj's. in about 2 months i'll be doing choice b with the klune and d300. <IMG SRC="smilies/thefinger.gif" border="0"> got the d300 just need the klune...

[poppycock]

arizona zuk are you super dave?

[0ILBURNER]

Originally posted by poppyseed:
<STRONG>i went s/r with my yj's. in about 2 months i'll be doing choice b with the klune and d300. <IMG SRC="smilies/thefinger.gif" border="0"> got the d300 just need the klune...</STRONG>

Yeah, I think I'm gonna go with the Klune + Atlas <IMG SRC="smilies/grinpimp.gif" border="0">
Need to wait until I got my Unimog axles under there, first... <IMG SRC="smilies/thefinger.gif" border="0">

Poppy you Really gonna sell yer GRS II?

[ 10-12-2001: Message edited by: 0ILBURNER ]

[poppycock]

selling the grsII once my klune and 300 are setup are ready to go in. hopefully around january or something... i'm gonna run the piss out of until then <IMG SRC="smilies/grinpimp.gif" border="0">

[poppycock]

well, guess i should say once i get it running. <IMG SRC="smilies/rolleyes.gif" border="0"> picking up the engine sunday then all i need is the adaptor and im going wheeling.

[0ILBURNER]

Originally posted by poppyseed:
<STRONG>selling the grsII once my klune and 300 are setup are ready to go in. hopefully around january or something... i'm gonna run the piss out of until then <IMG SRC="smilies/grinpimp.gif" border="0"></STRONG>

Daaaeeeeuuummm! That's gonna be Sa-Weet.

<IMG SRC="smilies/glasses.gif" border="0">

[poppycock]

once i sell the the grs2 the klune/300 setup is only going to set me back a little over what those 6:1 cases sell for... except i'll have a 10.52 low- low range and some beefcake down there. <IMG SRC="smilies/biggrin.gif" border="0">

[Arizona Zuk]

Originally posted by poppyseed:
<STRONG>arizona zuk are you super dave?</STRONG>

why, yes I am....I toasted my other puter..and couldn't remember my login.so I gots me a new name...all the Dave's are taken...;-)

[Arizona Zuk]

Originally posted by 0ILBURNER:
<STRONG>OK you CSC guys, let me try this another way:
You're crawlin' along a gnarly part of a rocky trail, and there is an Extreemly steep section (goin' downhill)right in front of you. You have several options available to you, some popular ones are:
A. Close yer eyes & GAS IT. <IMG SRC="smilies/biggrin.gif" border="0">
B. Engage your Klune-V or whatever lowest gears you have & crawl down.
C. Panic and stab the brake pedal.

In options B & C, the vehicle will experience a sudden deceleration - do you think that having a shackle-reverse causes your weight to shift forward faster than when you had the shackles up front? If so is it a problem?
(Option "A" not applicable to brake dive)

[ 10-12-2001: Message edited by: 0ILBURNER ]</STRONG>

my answer is (B)....I would like to point out there is nothing in this reply for my gain..CSC is not building the YJ suspension..so I am not trying to boost it....I like it on My Zuk and just want to answer your question with how I feel about it..

as for brake dive, .mine is less than a Big Foot type truck, but it is more than a stock Zuk, but then again, it rides way better and won't bend a front spring as fast as a shackel up front rig would...lol

[M.Martian]

Originally posted by 0ILBURNER:
<STRONG>
A. Close yer eyes & GAS IT. <IMG SRC="smilies/biggrin.gif" border="0">
B. Engage your Klune-V or whatever lowest gears you have & crawl down.
C. Panic and stab the brake pedal.</STRONG>

Usually in that type of a situation I'm going pretty slow from a start and usually in 1st LO (4.16 tcase, 3.73 diffs). I haven't really noticed any dive up front when going down a steep hill, but I also try to stay off the brake unless I pick up too much speed.

I'm sure I get a little bit of weight shift forward but I haven't found it to be a problem.

[scwafish]

Poppy-you can get an inexpensive adapter from bobaki, he made a batch of 10 or so last year, they need to be finished out but its real easy, send him a pm.

All you'll need after that is a motor mount bracket, I got mine from TT ($20??) or you can make one easy enough. You can come check mine out if you want.

[bobaki]

Mr Seed
email me or call,Sean has number
glad to help---got to get a closer look at your rig

[bobaki]

So,Mr Burner did you get an answer to your original question?If you did,please splain it

[DougO]

I've only felt brake dive while on the road, off road I havent really gone fast enough and needed to slam on the brake to produce it. But hey, thats just me and my experiance.

<IMG SRC="smilies/rolleyes.gif" border="0">

[0ILBURNER]

Originally posted by bobaki:
<STRONG>So,Mr Burner did you get an answer to your original question?If you did,please splain it</STRONG>

The original question was supposed to address whether or not you get a lot of weight-shift while going downhill with a shackle-reverse front suspension. (Apparently the term "brake dive" is used for "on-highway" situations only, so I muddied the issue by trying to use it for an extreme off-road downhill situation.) Whether you hit the brakes or drop to a lower gear, the truck will decellerate. This will cause the weight to shift forward. I think you do get a little of the front springs 'unloading' with the shackles in the rear while going downhill - probably even more if you have a plush rear suspension.

I have a set of missing link front shackles, and I do like them alright except when I am climbing steep obstacles - those shackles will unload on you, shifting the weight farther to the rear when you Least need it to. With a S/R, you shouldn't have this problem, but I was concerned that you might suffer from the reverse of this while going downhill. But the center of gravity is on the opposite side of the pivot point of the leaf springs, so I think this effect is somewhat diminished.

[bobaki]

INTERESTING <IMG SRC="smilies/biggrin.gif" border="0">

[Azrckcrawler]

Originally posted by 0ILBURNER:
<STRONG>The original question was supposed to address whether or not you get a lot of weight-shift while going downhill with a shackle-reverse front suspension. (Apparently the term "brake dive" is used for "on-highway" situations only, so I muddied the issue by trying to use it for an extreme off-road downhill situation.) Whether you hit the brakes or drop to a lower gear, the truck will decellerate. This will cause the weight to shift forward. I think you do get a little of the front springs 'unloading' with the shackles in the rear while going downhill - probably even more if you have a plush rear suspension.

I have a set of missing link front shackles, and I do like them alright except when I am climbing steep obstacles - those shackles will unload on you, shifting the weight farther to the rear when you Least need it to. With a S/R, you shouldn't have this problem, but I was concerned that you might suffer from the reverse of this while going downhill. But the center of gravity is on the opposite side of the pivot point of the leaf springs, so I think this effect is somewhat diminished.</STRONG>

I run a S/R YJ setup. I haven't noticed any difference over my old shackle up front setup when going down hills. I do get brake dive on the street, fixed that by buying a trailer <IMG SRC="smilies/smile.gif" border="0"> The thing I noticed most was the uphill climbs, the front end likes to walk forward, extending the wheelbase a little. There are a couple obstacles I tried with both my suspension and the S/R setup allowed me to climb it without any tire slip because the front tire was able to get up and over the obstacle.

[0ILBURNER]

Originally posted by bobaki:
<STRONG>INTERESTING <IMG SRC="smilies/biggrin.gif" border="0"></STRONG>

How so? <IMG SRC="smilies/smile.gif" border="0">

[bobaki]

in that i haven't done my yj's,yota's ,dualtoy's-
good imput that all HONEST

[DougO]

With a S/R, you shouldn't have this problem, but I was concerned that you might suffer from the reverse of this while going downhill. But the center of gravity is on the opposite side of the pivot point of the leaf springs, so I think this effect is somewhat diminished.

I have a front and rear opening/drop/missing link shackles on my YJ SR I didnt and havent felt any of those effects of it opening while jamming the brakes even with my high center of gravity(7'1"tall), though the steepest long grade downhill was only about 45*. Though I didnt like the way my front opening shackle performed this past weekend, so I'm doing a redesign.

[scwafish]

I think the whole weight transfer thing of m/l's on a climb is very legit. Jake had talked about it on here a while ago. Too much weight transfer to the rear will definitley mess up your front axles ability to do its job.