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View Poll Results: Is there a market for a twin stick and for how much?
Yes, I would pay about $120 44 18.80%
Yes, I would pay about $100 143 61.11%
No, forget it and move on. 11 4.70%
Bacon 36 15.38%
Voters: 234. You may not vote on this poll

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Old 05-24-2007, 01:51 PM   #251 (permalink)
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What can I say guys? The 4340 material has been back ordered for two months now even though we paid extra for "express delivery". I was just told that it will be another 3 weeks. If we had material, we could have these done and ship within a week. Everything else is done.

We're looking for any other options that are available. We really don't want to use an inferior material that could bend or break, which is why we've been holding out. I wish they were done too

I will continue pushing forward and get it done ASAP. Thanks for your patience.
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Old 05-24-2007, 06:22 PM   #252 (permalink)
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Thanks for the update

Thanks for the update, I hope they refund your express order money.
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Old 05-24-2007, 07:20 PM   #253 (permalink)
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Originally Posted by TruckTrader View Post
What can I say guys? The 4340 material has been back ordered for two months now even though we paid extra for "express delivery". I was just told that it will be another 3 weeks. If we had material, we could have these done and ship within a week. Everything else is done.

We're looking for any other options that are available. We really don't want to use an inferior material that could bend or break, which is why we've been holding out. I wish they were done too

I will continue pushing forward and get it done ASAP. Thanks for your patience.
Give Dean a call at Performance Cryogenics. He may know another solution using another material and either heat treating or cryo'ing the pieces.

Shane
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Old 05-24-2007, 08:06 PM   #254 (permalink)
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What can I say guys? The 4340 material has been back ordered for two months now even though we paid extra for "express delivery". I was just told that it will be another 3 weeks. If we had material, we could have these done and ship within a week. Everything else is done.

We're looking for any other options that are available. We really don't want to use an inferior material that could bend or break, which is why we've been holding out. I wish they were done too

I will continue pushing forward and get it done ASAP. Thanks for your patience.
TT:

We appreciate all your efforts & will be patient for the superior design you are offering! You ought to be ordering extra material to make a decent sized run of these for the demand that I'm sure will follow. I hope you both will be making at least a token profit for all your designing, planning, effort, & managing the logistics. I think your design will dominate this, albeit, limited market. Thanks again!



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Old 06-09-2007, 12:07 AM   #255 (permalink)
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The Bad, The Good, and the (sort of) Ugly...

It's been a while since we've reported anything about the "Evil Twin" project, but a lot has actually been happening in the last week and a half:

The Bad - The steel supplier once again told us that the estimated time of shipment for our 4340 alloy steel would be yet another three weeks later. I've come to think that when they have no idea when a shipment can be fulfilled, they give a standard <bullshit> "three week" estimate. I shopped around at several other steel suppliers, but got essentially the same answer (not available at this time). I've thought about thermal processing and/or cryo with available 1018 steel, but that would have questionable results and add much more expense and delay - (read on)...

The Good - Having figured out that it may be ten years before we ever see our shipment of 4340 steel, I checked to see what we can get in alloy steels and it turns out that 4140 Cr-Mo is readily available. The only minor issue is that the yield strength is about 20-25% lower than 4340. Sooooo - I redesigned the critical parts such that the cross sectional area of stressed material is about 50% greater. This should be more than sufficient for the 4140 alloy to work for us. I tracked down some 4140 alloy material to generate some sample pieces, shipped them to the jet cutter yesterday, and they are being jet cut on Monday. I'll commence testing on these parts as soon as they arrive, probably some time next week. If they pass the destructive testing phase, we should have levers made within a couple of weeks. And the kits will follow soon thereafter.

The (sort of) Ugly - I've made some headway at making a shift tower boot using a material called plastisol. I made a "plug" (positive mold) and made a sample boot. For the most part, it worked pretty well (the molding process, that is). The only problem that I ran into was that the shape of the mold trapped the finished part in a way that made quite an ugly mess when releasing the part... back to the drawing board to redesign and make another plug - However, there is hope for this one... My thinking is to get the "Evil Twin" kit out there and then continue to work on the boot problem, hopefully being able to offer shift tower boots at a later time. In the meantime, there is the "glove" solution.

Additional good news -
I installed one of the prototype "Evil Twins" in my Sammy and used a modified rubber glove for a shift tower boot. I found that with little modification that the "Glove-Boot" fit very well and sealed nicely. I took my Sammy up to Big Bear and ran it with the twin stick - It worked flawlessly. Even better than that, because it has such a positive crisp feel, I think that the "Evil Twin" makes it much easier to tell when the front wheel drive hub is fully engaged. This helps eliminate the "Hub half-engaged, power-on-hard, snap-pop, strip-teeth, break-the-output-shaft" syndrome. After a full weekend of wheeling, it had been 'worked' a lot and there was not even a drop of oil leakage from the "Glove-Boot." The twin stick was definitely the sickest thing to have when running through a boulder field and it made a difficult run much easier. I'm a novice wheeler and it definitely gave me an "unfair advantage."

I'll keep you posted as to the results of the 4140 alloy part testing...

Hopefully, the kits will be just around the corner.

Thanks again for your patience,


Alan
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Old 06-09-2007, 04:39 AM   #256 (permalink)
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Thanks for posting the update Alan. I see you were working late again as usual!
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Old 06-09-2007, 02:38 PM   #257 (permalink)
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Twin Stick boot

Truck Trader, I happen to be looking @ another Zuk site. Saw the twin stick kit that Rock-Rat is selling. Did you happen to catch the trick machined piece with what looked like the jeep boot on it? Looked pretty Damn Kewel!!!
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Old 06-09-2007, 03:04 PM   #258 (permalink)
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Yes I saw them. There are several guys out there selling versions where you need to drill the case.
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Old 06-09-2007, 03:21 PM   #259 (permalink)
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Sorry, but you do not have to drill the case with these. My sealing cap and boot assembly take care of everything. And it should work with anybodys twinstick.
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Old 06-09-2007, 03:39 PM   #260 (permalink)
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I misunderstood what you were producing originally. I thought you were making the twin sticks with it. Now I see you're just making the top piece with boot. Looks good. Either way, good luck with your design and the sales of it.
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Old 06-09-2007, 03:52 PM   #261 (permalink)
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I am not producing the sticks, Just selling my boot with Troys stuff. My original design that I made some years back was like what you have now. But my assembly was all intergrated into it. I made the changes to make it work with what Troy did. At this point the boots are selling preety good. Hope you get your material issues worked out. The one advantage I have is my Land lord is a Urethane shop so I get alot of molds and R/D done rather inexpensive, or we trade machining for product..
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Old 06-11-2007, 10:22 AM   #262 (permalink)
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If the glove technique uses a latex glove, be warned that the glove will be eaten by the gear oil over time. That method was used on a Toyota twin stick I have.. It didn't last long.

-Wayne
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Old 06-11-2007, 10:57 AM   #263 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by rotozuk View Post
If the glove technique uses a latex glove, be warned that the glove will be eaten by the gear oil over time. That method was used on a Toyota twin stick I have.. It didn't last long.

-Wayne

It's a nitril glove that he used, they are really thick and oil resistant. But I think that Plastisol material he's experimenting with will work. We should be able to provide boots for the twin sticks if that pans out.
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Old 06-11-2007, 08:47 PM   #264 (permalink)
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Well, Alan and I got lots of good news today. The metal supplier has the 4340 material in Chicago and can have it here in 9 days. Also, our machinist has the 4140 material and can knock out some samples tomorrow for us to try. So now we just have to decide which material to go with. I'm leaning towards waiting for the 4340, we've waited this long - what's another 9 days right? One way or another we should have this wrapped up before month end.
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Old 06-14-2007, 01:40 AM   #265 (permalink)
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Twin Stick

T.T. In order to use this I know the detent ball must be removed? Well lets say you have a PetroWorks case with the 2/low. Will this work? I know there is some mod to the shift fork. Thats how he's getting the "H" pattern. Asking before I buy. I may have to put a stock fork back in? Thanks
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Old 06-15-2007, 02:04 AM   #266 (permalink)
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T.T. In order to use this I know the detent ball must be removed? Well lets say you have a PetroWorks case with the 2/low. Will this work? I know there is some mod to the shift fork. Thats how he's getting the "H" pattern. Asking before I buy. I may have to put a stock fork back in? Thanks
I'm not familiar with what Petroworks does to modify the shift rail. I will have to get back to you on that. Or better yet, when they're ready in a couple of weeks just come over and we put one in and try it!
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Old 06-15-2007, 08:23 AM   #267 (permalink)
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I am curious of this too now as I have the petroworks split H pattern in mine as well. Hate to tear down two t-cases to do this, but it would be worth it!!!!
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Old 06-15-2007, 08:55 AM   #268 (permalink)
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I am curious of this too now as I have the petroworks split H pattern in mine as well. Hate to tear down two t-cases to do this, but it would be worth it!!!!
I know that Petroworks grinds the shift fork but I'm unsure on what that would mean for a twin stick. I would think it would be fine, but would like to test it first before I tell you it will work. I don't have one here to try it on, but madzuk is local so maybe we can experiment on his.
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Old 06-16-2007, 12:07 AM   #269 (permalink)
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H pattern

Sure thing T.T. Let me know when you get some together. I'll bring the Zuk over and will check it out.
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Old 06-16-2007, 03:32 PM   #270 (permalink)
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I've been looking on Rock Rats website for some items and can't find them. Things like the Toy driveshaft adapters, the twin sticks, dual Tcase adapters, and the adapter plates for the toy front axle spring perches. Anyone know how to find those on the website?
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Old 06-19-2007, 06:30 AM   #271 (permalink)
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I know that Petroworks grinds the shift fork but I'm unsure on what that would mean for a twin stick. I would think it would be fine, but would like to test it first before I tell you it will work. I don't have one here to try it on, but madzuk is local so maybe we can experiment on his.
It is true that the fork is grinded which makes the split "H" work. I would think that it may make the twin shifters a little sloppy and not quite like the crisp feel your getting now. Keep us posted if you do try it that way I know if its time to open mine up. Again, thanks for all your time and effort to make these happen.

And I have been keeping up with this post since day one, but without reading all the pages again, what are you doing to the interior "cosmetic" boot?
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Old 06-19-2007, 06:49 AM   #272 (permalink)
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Alan created a really nice pattern to make a material boot for the floor. He has a protoype on his already and it looks good and fits really nice. We plan to have those made and offer them with the kit, but we haven't found a source to produce those yet because I haven't had time to do it. It shouldn't be a problem, but in the interest of time we may just send the kits out first and then provide both the shift tower boot and interior boot at a later date. We were just going to produce them and sell them to the kit owners at cost if they wanted one.

The lower boot on the shift tower is holding up fine so far. Alan used a really heavy duty nitril glove on his and it hasn't leaked a drop yet. We could modify those initially to go out with the kit as well just to get folks by until we finish the nicer boots.
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Old 06-19-2007, 10:45 AM   #273 (permalink)
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Thats right. I remember that boot now. There were pics of it as well I believe.
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Old 06-20-2007, 09:27 AM   #274 (permalink)
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Here's a pic of the boot that Alan made. We're trying to source someone to make these on the side.
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Old 06-28-2007, 01:26 PM   #275 (permalink)
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any new progress??? The anticipation is killin me..
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