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View Poll Results: Is there a market for a twin stick and for how much?
Yes, I would pay about $120 44 18.72%
Yes, I would pay about $100 144 61.28%
No, forget it and move on. 11 4.68%
Bacon 36 15.32%
Voters: 235. You may not vote on this poll

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Old 01-24-2007, 05:01 PM   #1 (permalink)
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Anybody want a twin stick?

UPDATE - In stock and ready to ship! You can order one at www.zukeviltwin.com




A friend of mine and I are kicking around the idea of manufacturing a twin stick. Yea I know this topic has been beat to death and there are some other folks that have tried to manufacture and sell one. But at this point we have a working prototype and are looking at some options for producing it.

Installation is about as easy as it can get with the exception of the interlock ball. You need to remove the interlock ball in the t-case. Those folks that have the 2lo option or "sloppy s" shifter in their cases already have that done for them so this is a direct drop in.

It utilizes the stock shifter retainer cup and spring assembly which makes for a clean install. You remove your shift seat, drop it in, turn the collar and away you go.

So, is there a market for this at a pricepoint around $100-$120??? Or is the Samurai twin stick doomed to be something that everybody has to make for themselves?
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Old 01-24-2007, 05:25 PM   #2 (permalink)
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watch out - some asshole has a patent on twin-sticking a sami tcase.
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Old 01-24-2007, 05:29 PM   #3 (permalink)
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if he makes them i will buy one for 100 bucks let me know i am relly interested.Thanks mike
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Old 01-24-2007, 05:46 PM   #4 (permalink)
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watch out - some asshole has a patent on twin-sticking a sami tcase.
i heard that before.
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Old 01-24-2007, 05:56 PM   #5 (permalink)
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Okay guys, we know Rollerskate has had a patent out for a while but never produced them. I've corresponded with him and Brad is a cool guy that's just trying to protect his investment which is understandable. He doesn't have a problem anyone making these so long as it's not through an established vendor.

Can anybody on here help me out with some CNC machining or water jet cutting? I need to get a price to get these things produced so I know if it's feasible to do. Thanks.
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Old 01-24-2007, 06:06 PM   #6 (permalink)
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depending on how well the final product is (and maybe some cool shifters) i would think around the $100 mark is quite reasonable and there is most likely a demand.

Obviously there are alot of d.i.y. type guys out there and won't spend the money and the cheap guys out there who choose your lowest price no matter what. But for the perfectionist guys that want everything detailed and tried-and-true products, I imagine a nicely designed twin stick would do well. I'd buy one.

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Old 01-24-2007, 06:18 PM   #7 (permalink)
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there's already a guy over on the Zuwharrie board making and selling them for around 50 bucks plus your 2 shifter levers.

http://bbs.zuwharrie.com/content/topic,49930.0.html
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Old 01-24-2007, 07:23 PM   #8 (permalink)
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there's already a guy over on the Zuwharrie board making and selling them for around 50 bucks plus your 2 shifter levers.

http://bbs.zuwharrie.com/content/topic,49930.0.html
That's pretty cheap, I don't see a pic of his design though. I don't think it would be worth doing it for $50, there's still some work and time involved in doing it.
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Old 01-24-2007, 07:57 PM   #9 (permalink)
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I understand Brad's patent was pretty broad in it's description. I'd love to see the shofters available, but I'd hate to see you guys get into trouble too.
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Old 01-24-2007, 08:50 PM   #10 (permalink)
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If you build it and its a good product will buy it!!! Just like any other Zuk vender. I want two.
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Old 01-24-2007, 09:20 PM   #11 (permalink)
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I'm curious. I have the 2LO mod done in my tcase already. How is it different?
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Old 01-24-2007, 09:41 PM   #12 (permalink)
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I'm curious. I have the 2LO mod done in my tcase already. How is it different?
With a twin stick you have 1 lever for 2wd/4wd and another lever for 4lo/2lo. Much more positive feeling to shift, no hunting around for gears.
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Old 01-24-2007, 09:46 PM   #13 (permalink)
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Parts that go into it, no drilling for a pin across the case like some other designs.
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Old 01-24-2007, 09:49 PM   #14 (permalink)
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Installed unit. The shift is very crisp and tight. Ignore the shift pattern on the factory knob, left handle is 2wd/4wd and the right is hi/lo.
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Old 01-24-2007, 09:52 PM   #15 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 1madzuk View Post
If you build it and its a good product will buy it!!! Just like any other Zuk vender. I want two.

You're fairly local, feel free to drop by and check mine out sometime.
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Old 01-24-2007, 10:29 PM   #16 (permalink)
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let me know when there available and price shipped to 95206
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Old 01-24-2007, 11:39 PM   #17 (permalink)
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That sounds awesome and I would be very interested. I love my 2wd Lo option but it is sometime a pain searching for gears like you said. However, I for me.....would it be a bolt in swap, or would I still have to mess with the ball in the tcase?
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Old 01-25-2007, 12:15 AM   #18 (permalink)
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Quote:
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That sounds awesome and I would be very interested. I love my 2wd Lo option but it is sometime a pain searching for gears like you said. However, I for me.....would it be a bolt in swap, or would I still have to mess with the ball in the tcase?
No, if you have a 2lo option already that means the detent ball has been removed from the case previously. This is a direct drop in, just install it as you would a normal shifter with the twist and lock collar.
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Old 01-25-2007, 03:36 AM   #19 (permalink)
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i want a set.Thanks mike
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Old 01-25-2007, 07:06 AM   #20 (permalink)
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Interesting..yours looks almost identicle to mine.
They even mount the same way by the looks of it.
I did build one set of sticks a bit differently, and another set like yours...I haven't decided which one i like better though.
The big differance I think is the insert you made and the one that I have.

I am working on sealing mine, I have a twinstick boot I am going to use, I just need to finish how to attach it to the t-case neatly. Sealing it simple and inexpensivly has really been the only issue but I belive I have that worked out now as well, i just need to fabricate the prototype parts.

As for the patent issue...that has been discussed at great length here and over on Zuwharrie

I am glad to see that someone else has figured out how easy it is to build this.
I have looked at the market for this and its going to be very small, so I decided not to market mine.
I will build it for friends and gifts, just not for profit.
I'm kinda treating it as a gift back to the comunity that has given me so much enjoyment over the years.
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Old 01-25-2007, 07:16 AM   #21 (permalink)
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Quote:
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Interesting..yours looks almost identicle to mine.
They even mount the same way by the looks of it.
I did build one set of sticks a bit differently, and another set like yours...I haven't decided which one i like better though.
The big differance I think is the insert you made and the one that I have.

I am working on sealing mine, I have a twinstick boot I am going to use, I just need to finish how to attach it to the t-case neatly. Sealing it simple and inexpensivly has really been the only issue but I belive I have that worked out now as well, i just need to fabricate the prototype parts.

As for the patent issue...that has been discussed at great length here and over on Zuwharrie

I am glad to see that someone else has figured out how easy it is to build this.
I have looked at the market for this and its going to be very small, so I decided not to market mine.
I will build it for friends and gifts, just not for profit.
I'm kinda treating it as a gift back to the comunity that has given me so much enjoyment over the years.



I've seen others that are similar to this setup too, let's face it - there's only so many ways you can make a twin stick for a samurai. Sealing the boot is an issue we have too and we haven't found anything pre-made that will work well in this application. The best option is of course to have one made specifically for this setup. That might cost some dough, but we're checking into it. It shouldn't leak anymore than a stock setup in a rollover though.

I don't know how you machined your block for the shift towers but these are precision made with zero clearance. That means you remove the shift seat and jiggle this into place and hold it down with the retainer cup and spring assembly. Once installed, it's the tightest and most positive shifting setup I've ever seen.

As for the patent, we'll see what happens. I seriously doubt the patent nazi could get us for this design. But if his patent is so broad that it covers the idea and not just making something different then we're all hosed and this will be just another design that never makes it to market.
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Old 01-25-2007, 07:52 AM   #22 (permalink)
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I've seen others that are similar to this setup too, let's face it - there's only so many ways you can make a twin stick for a samurai.
Haha, you're right there, before I went to Dual Toyota T-cases, I built a twin stick that looked just like yours except the pivot slug was 2 piece.

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Sealing the boot is an issue we have too and we haven't found anything pre-made that will work well in this application. The best option is of course to have one made specifically for this setup. That might cost some dough, but we're checking into it. It shouldn't leak anymore than a stock setup in a rollover though.
I used a thick rubber glove and duct tape, totally crude, but it worked.

Quote:
Originally Posted by TT
I don't know how you machined your block for the shift towers but these are precision made with zero clearance. That means you remove the shift seat and jiggle this into place and hold it down with the retainer cup and spring assembly. Once installed, it's the tightest and most positive shifting setup I've ever seen.
That definitely looks very clean and the nicest I've seen so far.

Quote:
Originally Posted by TT
As for the patent, we'll see what happens. I seriously doubt the patent nazi could get us for this design. But if his patent is so broad that it covers the idea and not just making something different then we're all hosed and this will be just another design that never makes it to market.
If his patent is so broad to cover every possible design, then it would be easy to beat, plus he would need to spend the $ to come after you. I haven't seen his patent, but they can be very tricky if they are not worded right. He cannot just patent a twin stick for a Sami T-case, he has to show his design and then any other design would be legal. Keep in mind that just because he has a patent doesn't mean it is iron clad, the USPTO office usually weeds out bad patents, but many of them get through that are weak and can be gotten around.

Does anyone have the patent number for his design? I am not a patent laywer, but have dealt enough with patents over the years to have gotten a pretty good feel for them.
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Old 01-25-2007, 07:52 AM   #23 (permalink)
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Possible option - How about a do it yourself kit?

Another option to get around any potential patent issues and to keep costs down would be to make it available as a kit. Meaning, we could make a "do it yourself kit" where we could provide the machined block and lower portion of the levers that extend just above the top of the case a couple of inches.

You could cut two stock shift levers and weld them on yourself and use your stock spring and retaining cup with spring. Most shadetree mechanics could cut the levers themselves and put a few booger welds on it and be done. Just an idea.
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Old 01-25-2007, 07:59 AM   #24 (permalink)
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are u guys selling them yet or no because i relly want one and i would like to get it asap.Mike
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Old 01-25-2007, 09:05 AM   #25 (permalink)
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are u guys selling them yet or no because i relly want one and i would like to get it asap.Mike
Sorry Mike, we haven't produced anything for sale as of yet. The reason being if we want to make this worthwhile we would have to manufacture them in a large batch. Maybe we can look into making a small batch first and see how they sell. If we do that (or decide to make one offs) I will let you know. Thanks.

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