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Old 08-06-2007, 10:31 AM   #1 (permalink)
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Zook/Kia stuff....

someone has been suggesting a lot of similarities between some later model GV hardware and Kia stuff. at first, none of it seemed to fit, but it appears that both the V-6 GV and the 95-03 Sportage (only available with a 4 cyl) might be using the exact same auto tranny with different front half and tail housing, both look to be removable, front half might just be the bellhousing, but it looks like the tranny case actually splits there.

my question is this-

if i take the tail housing off my Kia tranny and use the tail housing from a GV, what exactly do i gain? are there doubler kits? i know Calmini and RRO have lower gv case gears, but is the GV case belt or gear driven, and other than getting those low gears, why would i want to swap? are there spicer-style and pattern output flanges available? curious, because i run d44's. gimme everything. i have searched some, i could search more, which is what i plan to do after posting this, but i'm a little eager to find out since this question and many like it have been rolling around the Sportage board over at 4x4 wire for over 3 years without any definite answers.

thanks for anything.
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Old 08-06-2007, 10:43 AM   #2 (permalink)
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running a tracker case from a 2.5L or earlier, not a 2.7 will get you

all of the kicker adapters ( www.ottindustries.com )
i wouldnt put any of the factory stuff behind it because at the level of your rig the chain drive and slip yokes just dont make sense.

I have run a kicker 2 and also a kicker 4 to a toy-dana 300 doubler. the second is my favorite. front dig I do have a new dent (the biggest so far) to blame on it though, I pulled myself into a tree without realizing I was pulling myself into a tree.....
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Old 08-06-2007, 11:38 AM   #3 (permalink)
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running a tracker case from a 2.5L or earlier, not a 2.7 will get you

all of the kicker adapters ( www.ottindustries.com )
i wouldnt put any of the factory stuff behind it because at the level of your rig the chain drive and slip yokes just dont make sense.

I have run a kicker 2 and also a kicker 4 to a toy-dana 300 doubler. the second is my favorite. front dig I do have a new dent (the biggest so far) to blame on it though, I pulled myself into a tree without realizing I was pulling myself into a tree.....
i wanted to ask some questions of OTT about these, but they don't have an e-mail address on the site, so i was gonna wait 'til i got home and call. thanks for that info.

any more?
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Old 08-06-2007, 11:40 AM   #4 (permalink)
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Have fun getting ahold of OTT, and multiply their lead time by 10, no joke.

I can answer a lot of questions about the OTT cases if you want.
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Old 08-06-2007, 12:09 PM   #5 (permalink)
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I have run a kicker 2 and also a kicker 4 to a toy-dana 300 doubler. the second is my favorite. front dig I do have a new dent (the biggest so far) to blame on it though, I pulled myself into a tree without realizing I was pulling myself into a tree.....
ok, so, basically, this is: the kicker 4 kit + the toy low box + the toy/d300 adapter + d300, correct?

about how long is that combo?

are you using stock gears in the toy box and d300? what's are the ratios?

thanks.
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Old 08-06-2007, 12:22 PM   #6 (permalink)
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ok, so, basically, this is: the kicker 4 kit + the toy low box + the toy/d300 adapter + d300, correct? yes, you need the kicker 4, toy-300 adapter, top shift 21 spline toy case, dana 300.

about how long is that combo? Im not positive, I will get a number for you tonight

are you using stock gears in the toy box and d300? what's are the ratios? stock gearing, toy- 2.28x300- 2.62 or about 6:1.
90% of the time I use just the 300 low range, my new powerplant makes the gearing not as picky.


thanks.
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Old 08-06-2007, 12:59 PM   #7 (permalink)
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been researching this here: http://bbs.zuwharrie.com/content/topic,60994.0.html (I am zooky there)
Basically, the bellhousings and tailshafts are interchangable. I am using a Volvo auto as the core and confirmed a toyota and suzuki interchange so I assume the Kia one will since its the same family. The only problem I have ran accross is that the output shafts have different spline counts. The Volvo output is huge at 23 spline and matches the toyota turbo T-case input. I made an adapter to mount the toyota T-case to the volvo trans and it is shorter then the stock sami driveline. You will be able to mount a stock tracker T-case adapter to your transmission and use any of the Kickers like mentioned above. I wouldnt be suprised if the tracker and Kia output splines were the same. If not you can swap out your output or even swap in a complete tracker 4-speed (with your bellhousing). Wiring will be the same but the connectors might be different. You have a bunch of possibilities here
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Old 08-06-2007, 01:47 PM   #8 (permalink)
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Originally Posted by samiguy View Post
been researching this here: http://bbs.zuwharrie.com/content/topic,60994.0.html (I am zooky there)
Basically, the bellhousings and tailshafts are interchangable. I am using a Volvo auto as the core and confirmed a toyota and suzuki interchange so I assume the Kia one will since its the same family. The only problem I have ran accross is that the output shafts have different spline counts. The Volvo output is huge at 23 spline and matches the toyota turbo T-case input. I made an adapter to mount the toyota T-case to the volvo trans and it is shorter then the stock sami driveline. You will be able to mount a stock tracker T-case adapter to your transmission and use any of the Kickers like mentioned above. I wouldnt be suprised if the tracker and Kia output splines were the same. If not you can swap out your output or even swap in a complete tracker 4-speed (with your bellhousing). Wiring will be the same but the connectors might be different. You have a bunch of possibilities here
starting to look that way.

see, 3 years ago, some of the kia guys did a crapload of research on this and the auto tranny was named in a bunch of other applications, but it seamed non of them had all the right bolt patterns, and, i guess we somehow overlooked that the bellhousing was removable, in fact, i would have sworn it wasn't, but the photos i found don't lie, and i haven't bothered to crawl under mine and check it out, but i will definitely do so tonight.

thanks for all the info, guys. i may be back for more very soon.
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Old 08-06-2007, 02:45 PM   #9 (permalink)
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the split for the bellhousing is close to trans oil pan. It bolts right off, no other parts come out with it and you dont lose a drop of fluid. Between the T-case and the transmission there is a 1.5-2" adapter. After you remove the T-case and that adapter the bolt pattern on the transmission should match all the others
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Old 08-07-2007, 06:20 AM   #10 (permalink)
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ok, one problem, maybe....

the Kia t-case input is 25 splines. *edit- and a hair less than 1.125" diameter.

does this mean the tranny output shaft is 25 splines? or is there a short coupler or intermediate shaft in the tail housing? i'm guessing if the Zuk has something like that, the Kia tranny will too, if not, then what else has 25 splines?

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Old 08-07-2007, 09:37 AM   #11 (permalink)
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no coupler, but suppose you could make one.
tracker is 23 spline so it wont be a bolt on swap. Easiest way will be to swap the complete transmission and use your bellhousing and torque converter. It would be worth the effort to get the gearing options.
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Old 08-07-2007, 09:54 AM   #12 (permalink)
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no coupler, but suppose you could make one.
tracker is 23 spline so it wont be a bolt on swap. Easiest way will be to swap the complete transmission and use your bellhousing and torque converter. It would be worth the effort to get the gearing options.
that's what i'm thinking, prolly using the volvo trans, and a toy turbo t-case or whatever, but is there really a difference in the strength between a 25 spline 1.125" diameter Kia tranny output and the 23 spline, whatever diameter volvo output?

is there a 25 spline toy case input option? or something else? i'm going fishing, maybe i can find something hasn't been found yet we can all use. maybe.
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Old 08-07-2007, 02:37 PM   #13 (permalink)
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the volvo output is slightly larger then the Kia, either should be bullet proof. The volvo transmissions are easy to find, I got mine at a junkyard for $59. You can get the 23 spline T-case input option free with any aftermarket gearset, 21 spline is more common.
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Old 08-08-2007, 07:16 AM   #14 (permalink)
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thanks, very much for that info.

looks like i'll be looking for a volvo tranny, toy case OTT adapter and toy d-shaft parts.

i'm gonna keep looking, but off-hand- any idea what model that volvo tranny comes from?

*** found it in the link above, thanks again.

one more question: anyone happen to know if there is an 03-72LE that has the 23-spline volvo output? i really don't wanna have to take the tranny apart, and i'm not sure about the volvo tranny being mechanically shifted, since this is my DD. does that make much difference?

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Old 08-08-2007, 07:55 AM   #15 (permalink)
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I dont think you can (easily) use the OTT adapter with the Volvo transmission due to the diameter of the output. You may be able to use their adapter plate and a toyota coupler, this is going to require research. If you have some fab skills you can build your own adapter, check out mine in the link I posted at the beginning of this thread. The only tools I used were a drill press and saws-all and it cost me under $100 (way cheaper if you have better access to aluminum then I did).
The transmission I used was from a '95 Volvo 940. This has the matching 23 spline output, other years might use different splines, I'm not sure. This 'vintage' is better if you make your own adapter because in the tailhousing, instead of a bronze bushing, they use a huge roller bearing that has a squirter that uses trans fluid to cool and lube it. The trans I got is a non-lock up, they also come in a lock up varity. Thats what you will want since your transmission has a lock-up (or does it?), the torque converters are different and yours wont work with a non-lock up trans.
Another option (better, I think in your case) would be to use the tracker 4-speed, your torque converter should slide right in and the OTT adapter will bolt right up. I know these transmissions use to be pretty cheap, they would be left over from guys swapping the engines into their samis
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Old 08-08-2007, 08:18 AM   #16 (permalink)
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ok, but i'm worried about the output shaft size of the Zuk tranny, that's why i was sorta bent on the volvo. i know it's 21 spline, but is it also larger than 1.125" diameter? and match the toy 21-spline t-case directly?

i'm still looking online for more matches, but i appreciate any input i can get very much.

thanks again.
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Old 08-09-2007, 07:35 AM   #17 (permalink)
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nothing big, but, found this:

http://www.tealautomotiveinc.com/tra...n_index_iv.htm
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Old 08-09-2007, 07:58 AM   #18 (permalink)
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ok, but i'm worried about the output shaft size of the Zuk tranny, that's why i was sorta bent on the volvo. i know it's 21 spline, but is it also larger than 1.125" diameter? and match the toy 21-spline t-case directly?

i'm still looking online for more matches, but i appreciate any input i can get very much.

thanks again.
I've never heard of any problems with a tracker output, its before all the gearing so its not under much stress.
The toyota 23 spline is larger than 1.125" and matches my volvo transmission perfect, I even have a coupler to join the two and have had the whole thing assembled and ready to install.
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Old 08-09-2007, 08:16 AM   #19 (permalink)
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just another bit of info, in case anyone is interested....

the Kia Sorento also runs the AW 03-72LE and is heavier, has 172 hp and 200-ish lb-ft. of torque, so, i'm thinking maybe it runs the 23-spline tranny, but, that's just a guess. still looking.....

[edit- so far, i have yet to find a pic of the apparently matching tranny, i have found some pics, but they don't seem to match]

thanks for the info on the Volvo/Toy combo. wondering about the "coupler" you have though... if the 2 match, why use a coupler?
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Old 08-09-2007, 08:24 AM   #20 (permalink)
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wondering about the "coupler" you have though... if the 2 match, why use a coupler?
the toyota T-case has external splines like the transmssion, not internal splines like the Kia and tracker T-cases. The coupler is about 3" long and has internal splines to slide over the trans and T-case splines
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Old 08-09-2007, 09:14 AM   #21 (permalink)
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i thought so, from photos on the Marlin Crawler site, but wasn't sure. thanks for all that info. so, then, is the coupler the reason the OTT adapter might be too narrow?
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Old 08-09-2007, 10:00 AM   #22 (permalink)
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yes, the OTT coupler will match the tracker splines, not the volvo splines. The coupler I used is from a toyota R151 5-speed.
The setup I put together is easier for tracker (that dont have the factory 4-speed), samurai and even toyota guys that dont already have the correct transmission. The advantage is there is no wiring to do. In your situation, you already have the 4-speed so you have the wiring already to just swap in the tracker auto and simply bolt in one of the OTT adapters. As far as the strength of the tracker output goes, there are tons of them out there being wheeled and I've never heard of any problems. I would like to see you (or someone) use the volvo transmission just to PROVE it works, but I think it will be more research and work for you. Either way, report back, this is good tech.

Last edited by samiguy; 08-09-2007 at 10:01 AM.
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Old 08-09-2007, 10:16 AM   #23 (permalink)
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i think, but don't know, but i think the ECM requires info from the tranny, so i doubt my motor would run very well without all the wiring connected to the tranny. i think i will prolly just run the Zuk tranny and Toy t-case, but i'm gonna keep looking to see if anything else mates to anything else, would be nice to know for future reference.

have one question:

there are splines missing in this photo from the Tracker t-case input, is that factored into the spline count?

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Old 08-09-2007, 10:26 AM   #24 (permalink)
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the tracker transmission is computer controlled just like your Kia transmission. Your Kia computer will control the shifting just like it does now, it wont even know its been swapped out. Definately the way to go.
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Old 08-09-2007, 10:31 AM   #25 (permalink)
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the tracker transmission is computer controlled just like your Kia transmission. Your Kia computer will control the shifting just like it does now, it wont even know its been swapped out. Definately the way to go.
yeah, sorry, i meant that was the one issue against the Volvo tranny. well, and the OTT adapter being too small. i'm good, but i don't know if i'm good enough to build an adapter that needs to be perfectly straight.

so, that's why i think i'm probably going to just settle on what's been done previously.
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