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Old 01-10-2010, 05:23 PM   #1 (permalink)
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New to Samurai's and got some questions

Ok so I just got my first Samurai and wanted to get some advise on it. First here are the specs:

-1988
-1.3l
-Sport cage bolted to floor
-31x10.50r15 BFG M/T
-asian auto parts YJ spring kit (the one with the frame extension and shackle reversal)
-Stock YJ springs
-SPOA kit
-6.5:1 transfer case
-Stock, open diffs
-Z bar steering

I plan on tieing the cage into the frame, going to a high steer kit, rear bumper with tire, gas can, and jack mount, and when the 1.3 calls it quits going to a 1.6 8v engine. But I have a few questions. One is what degree should the axles be set at for the lift I have? They are not correct right now. The other is I would like to go to 33x12.50 tires but I don't know what gearing I should use for the diffs. It is not going to be a daily driver but it will see some freeway driving so I would like to be able to do 65-70 mph(which I can't even do right now) without reving to the moon. Also you guys with the extended frames, can you use some of these winch front bumpers or am I making my own? Here are some pictures.





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Old 01-10-2010, 06:19 PM   #2 (permalink)
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33 are pretty much too big for stock zuk axles unless you beef them up. 31 is pretty good on a zuk. you cant drive that fast cause you have the 6.5to1 tcase gears they are for regearing the tcase to run 33-35 tires and stock axle gears. I would sell that tcase for a stock one and get 5.12 gears from a sidekick or tracker with manual tranny and either use there rear axle or get a hybrid rear from lowrange under samurai axle section you should be able to run fine then.
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Old 01-10-2010, 06:36 PM   #3 (permalink)
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I don't think the transfer case is geared to low to drive that fast in 2 hi right now. I can't use 5th gear with the 31's. Well I take that back, I can on flat ground with no wind. Now in 4 lo it only goes like 15 mph which I understand. The reason I was going to go to 33's is because they are coming off my Explorer and I was debating about going from 31's to 33's. I also don't do really any rock crawling stuff but more trails and desert wheeling. So what I am guess I am asking is what do I need to do to be able to do freeway speeds right now?
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Old 01-10-2010, 06:52 PM   #4 (permalink)
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33 are pretty much too big for stock zuk axles unless you beef them up. 31 is pretty good on a zuk. you cant drive that fast cause you have the 6.5to1 tcase gears they are for regearing the tcase to run 33-35 tires and stock axle gears. I would sell that tcase for a stock one and get 5.12 gears from a sidekick or tracker with manual tranny and either use there rear axle or get a hybrid rear from lowrange under samurai axle section you should be able to run fine then.
Dont sell the t case. I have yota axles under mine with 4:88's, 33 inch tires and it will run 65-70 all day long ! I have seen people run 33's to 37's on sami axle's, I dont know how they don't break, but they run them. I would swap in yota axle's. You can run the stock 4:10's in the yota axle with the 6.5 t case & you will be in good shape. Plus it will probably be cheaper to buy yota axle's and swap them in as it would be to build sami axle's.
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Old 01-10-2010, 07:44 PM   #5 (permalink)
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I ran the heaviest 33" tire on the market (Toyo MT 33x13.50.... 75 lbs each) on stock sami axles for 2 years. Just trails, no rocks, with Lock-rite in the rear, open front, 5.13s out of tracker front diffs. Worked great for around town. Highway speeds came in the form of a 16v swap.

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Old 01-10-2010, 08:15 PM   #6 (permalink)
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So with the 6.5:1 transfer case should I be able to do like 65 mph with 31's in Hi range? Because I have a hard time even getting into 5th gear. How do I check what my transfer case gearing is with out opening it up?
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Old 01-11-2010, 02:19 AM   #7 (permalink)
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Old 01-11-2010, 05:13 AM   #8 (permalink)
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Do a compression test.
You should be able to get into 5th with those gears and tires.
What carb do you have?
Make sure no U-Joints are getting stiff on you and wheel bearings are turning free.
That is a ton of lift for stock U-Joints.
The pinion flange angle should be the same as the T-Case flanges for road use with no vibs.
Check your castor.
To check gear, put it in low and turn the input to the T-Case and count how many revs it takes to get the output to turn one rev. 6.5 turns would be a 6.5 t-case.

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Old 01-11-2010, 09:18 AM   #9 (permalink)
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you cant drive that fast cause you have the 6.5to1 tcase gears they are for regearing the tcase to run 33-35 tires and stock axle gears. I would sell that tcase for a stock one and get 5.12 gears ... you should be able to run fine then.
Ummm

This makes no sense. You're saying the 6.5 tcase gears give too low gearing for 31s, yet they're only a 20% reduction in high range. Compare that to your recommended stock tcase and 5.12 diff gears which give 37% reduction.

5.12s will be way lower geared/higher rpm on the highway than a set of 6.5 tcase gears. Too much gearing for the street, too little gearing for the dirt.

As for the OP's question: your highway performance problems are likely more a result of insufficient power than gearing. A 1.3 + 70mph + not revving to the moon = unlikely in stock form, less so on 31s. there's only so much 60hp and brick-like aerodynamics can do...I'd bump the 1.6 higher on the priority list. The power difference between my stock sammy and stock 8valve kick was HUGE, even with the higher weight of the kick. If I built another one, the 1.6 would be one of my first mods for driveability.

As for axle angle...in theory, to keep the u-joints vibe free, the diff and tcase flanges should be parallel. But with stock shafts/wheelbase and that much lift, you might be pushing the limits on what those u-joints can handle. A rear cv (toy front shaft, for example, which bolt up with a set of rock-rat adapters) means you can point the rear diff at the tcase, which helps angles and vibes a lot. The front end, on a street driven rig, the castor is more important than the u-joint angles, since you probably don't run extended high speeds in 4wd anyway. DON'T point the front diff flange at the tcase to help u-joint angles, as you'll probably be well into the negative castor range.
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Old 01-11-2010, 09:51 AM   #10 (permalink)
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This is what I have.
1.3 with 177 lbs of compression
I'm at 5400' which is a 5%/1000' loss in HP. That equals 25% loss from sea level.
I have 5.14 T-Case with stock 3.73 gears in the axles. 18.6 reduction in hi.
I have GSXR carbs on a set of my manifolds which double the HP over a stock Sammy carbed 1.3.
31 X 10.50 X 15" Trxus MT's
Even with a new stock carb I could run on the flats at 78 no problem in 5th. Took some time to get there. SPUA 3" Calmini lift. Stock carb is really restrictive as is the intake.

Now I can do 89 before I shit my pants trying to keep it in my lane SPOA RUF. There seems to always be some cross wind of some kind here.

With a 6.5 you should easily be able to get into 5th or at least run in 4th at 65 at sea level.
These motors do run high RPM and will run at over 5500 forever if you have a good motor. I can do 76 mph in 3rd up my test hill here which is only 3/4 mile long.
I run with plenty of guys at this altitude that have 6.5 and stock 3rd's and they all can do 65. Not all can in 5th though because of the altitude and week compression. Most guys have at least a MYSide carb setup too.

To do an overall reduction by putting in 5.12 and stock T-Case is really stupid especially with 31's and even no motor left. Not nearly enough for off road and way too much for the road. I wonder what his guy is smokin who said that, cause I don't want any and he shouldn't be trying to push it either.
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Old 01-11-2010, 10:52 AM   #11 (permalink)
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33 are pretty much too big for stock zuk axles unless you beef them up. 31 is pretty good on a zuk. you cant drive that fast cause you have the 6.5to1 tcase gears they are for regearing the tcase to run 33-35 tires and stock axle gears. I would sell that tcase for a stock one and get 5.12 gears from a sidekick or tracker with manual tranny and either use there rear axle or get a hybrid rear from lowrange under samurai axle section you should be able to run fine then.
WTF are you talking about? Don't listen to this dude, he's wrong on every account. Sammy axles will take 33's all day long, the 6.5 case is the only one worth having, and you don't need to change the diff axle gears. There is only one option anyways, which is going to Track/Kick gears, but you'd have a top speed of 50-55mph with those installed on top of the 6.5 case. The 6.5 case has about the ideal amount of high range reduction for 33in tires, so I wouldn't worry about upgrading anything right now as far as that goes.

I have a buddy who runs 33's on his Samurai, and it did awesome even when getting beat on. Might be worth upgrading to chromo axles for peace of mind though. I think thats money better spent then upgrading diff gears personally.

For what its worth, the Samurai is never gonna be a highway cruiser without upgrading to a much larger engine. Even the 1.6 16 valve will bog down up the hills. You could swap in a 2liter Suzuki engine out of a Vitara, or go with a 4.3L Vortec V6. A 22re out of a Toyota Minitruck is an option too, and goes well with the wider and stronger Toyota axles. Until then, the stock engine can take being revved up high for long periods. I drove mine at 5-6k going up the hills, just to stay going 45mph in 3rd gear (with Gixxer carbs). Power adders like a header or cam will help, but not a ton. IMHO, you are better off spending the money on a bigger engine.

JH
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Old 01-11-2010, 11:02 PM   #12 (permalink)
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4.9:1 Low Range Transfer Case Gears
If your running around a 31" tire on your Samurai and want to get that 5th gear back, these are your ticket. Trail Tough's "Rock Monster" series 4.9:1 transfer case gears provide 115% reduction in low range and 16% reduction in high range.
These one-piece billet gear sets run quiet and provide superior reliability. These are the most complete kits currently available and include new gaskets, seals, thrust washers, counter shaft, 2 needle bearings, an O-ring, and even a new oem shift sheet. No cores are required.

so i might of been wrong but then what does this tell you. so i might of read his original post too fast man your a buch of judgemental fuckers. anyway idk if this was mentioned but here it goes i ran a weber 32/36 pain when it didnt want to work but when it did actually work it gave the little 1.3 alot of power and ran down the hwy on 30/9.50/15's it would do 65-70

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Old 01-12-2010, 12:20 AM   #13 (permalink)
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I've been running the Asian Auto Parts setup for something like 8 years. I've got a 4.16:1 tcase and a 5.12 kick hybrid rear from Trail Tough. I can run on the highway at 65 without too much problem (drop it down to about 55 on hills). This is with your typical 33x12.5 MT's. With the 34x10.5 LTB's I had on there it was a lot tougher to get up to speed due to the heavy tires.

I first ran the 34's with 5.43's and a LS up front. On the first two runs out I blew out two birfs and an inner shaft. After that I swapped over to the 5.12's and an open front and mini-spooled rear. I haven't taken out any more shafts or birfs since that switch. I am pretty easy on it though as I let off and don't let my ego get the better of me. (all of this is crawling in the rocks and boulders)

Normally with the AAPOA YJ kit you shouldn't need to shim the axles any. I've never had a problem with caster on mine but it does look like someone did a frame extension so they might have put the front spring mount in a different spot. It's hard to tell but it also looks like there are missing link shackles in the rear?

With the shackle reversal there must be a longer driveshaft put up front also. I don't think the stock shaft can reach even on level ground with both the YJ's, SPOA and shackle reversal.
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Old 01-12-2010, 08:44 AM   #14 (permalink)
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Put a Buick V6/auto in my Samurai few years ago,it was great.
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Old 01-12-2010, 06:19 PM   #15 (permalink)
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I've been running the Asian Auto Parts setup for something like 8 years. I've got a 4.16:1 tcase and a 5.12 kick hybrid rear from Trail Tough. I can run on the highway at 65 without too much problem (drop it down to about 55 on hills). This is with your typical 33x12.5 MT's. With the 34x10.5 LTB's I had on there it was a lot tougher to get up to speed due to the heavy tires.

I first ran the 34's with 5.43's and a LS up front. On the first two runs out I blew out two birfs and an inner shaft. After that I swapped over to the 5.12's and an open front and mini-spooled rear. I haven't taken out any more shafts or birfs since that switch. I am pretty easy on it though as I let off and don't let my ego get the better of me. (all of this is crawling in the rocks and boulders)

Normally with the AAPOA YJ kit you shouldn't need to shim the axles any. I've never had a problem with caster on mine but it does look like someone did a frame extension so they might have put the front spring mount in a different spot. It's hard to tell but it also looks like there are missing link shackles in the rear?

With the shackle reversal there must be a longer driveshaft put up front also. I don't think the stock shaft can reach even on level ground with both the YJ's, SPOA and shackle reversal.
There are no missing links on the Samurai. It does have a SUMO front drive shaft but it is just the flange type and not the CV. So I think that could fix some of the issues with the vibration. Also the wheel base has been extended like 1 to 2 inches in the rear and around 3 in the front.

Thanks for all the info guys and input. It looks like I am going to be doing an engine swap soon.
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Old 01-12-2010, 06:35 PM   #16 (permalink)
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There are no missing links on the Samurai. It does have a SUMO front drive shaft but it is just the flange type and not the CV. So I think that could fix some of the issues with the vibration. Also the wheel base has been extended like 1 to 2 inches in the rear and around 3 in the front.

Thanks for all the info guys and input. It looks like I am going to be doing an engine swap soon.
Start with the easy/cheap/fast basics. Are your driveshafts running in phase? Easy to re-assemble them out of phase if you're not paying attention for a second.

What's your castor set at up front? Is your rear diff/pinion pointed at the tcase or straight forward? Does it vibe in 2wd, or just in 4wd? Front CV shafts are only really of benefit if you're willing to cut and turn your knuckles. If it vibrates in 2wd it's probably your rear shaft. Either because your u-joints are running at too high an angle or because the pinion angles are out or your joints are out of phase. In any case, have a look at these. Good solution for going to a rear CV.

http://www.rock4xfabrication.com/ratadapter.htm
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Old 01-12-2010, 08:02 PM   #17 (permalink)
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Start with the easy/cheap/fast basics. Are your driveshafts running in phase? Easy to re-assemble them out of phase if you're not paying attention for a second.

What's your castor set at up front? Is your rear diff/pinion pointed at the tcase or straight forward? Does it vibe in 2wd, or just in 4wd? Front CV shafts are only really of benefit if you're willing to cut and turn your knuckles. If it vibrates in 2wd it's probably your rear shaft. Either because your u-joints are running at too high an angle or because the pinion angles are out or your joints are out of phase. In any case, have a look at these. Good solution for going to a rear CV.

http://www.rock4xfabrication.com/ratadapter.htm
Both diffs are pointed at the transfer case. Only the front is shimmed and the rear is still useing the stock drive shaft. I only notice the vibe in 2wd on the street.
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Old 01-12-2010, 08:19 PM   #18 (permalink)
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If your front diff is pointed at the tcase, check your castor angle. Unless your axle has had the knuckles cut and rotated and re-welded, your castor's probably off. If it steers/tracks well, and returns to center itself after turning, you should be ok. I wouldn't bother swapping the d-shaft up front if you've already got a long spline unit that works for your lift.

In the rear, if your diff's already pointed up you're all set for a cv shaft. That should help your vibes. If not, the smooth running will be nicer to your tcase and rear diff, and you'll have a stronger shaft at least .

I don't remember how long a stock samurai d-shaft is, but if memory serves, early 80s toy front cv shafts are 19-20", and later (84-85) front shafts are 24-25.

Either that or drop the diff down until the pinion flange is parallel with the tcase flange and keep the single u-joint driveshaft...but you'll be pushing the limits of those joints.
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Old 01-12-2010, 09:36 PM   #19 (permalink)
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Phil has a lot of good suggestions.

I'm running the Arizona Drivelines shafts front and rear from AAPOA and don't have any vibes. Neither is a CV shaft and both pinions are at stock/near stock angles. Even with YJ's and a spring over the angles are alright for those shafts.

As Phil said, unless that front axle has had the knuckles turned then get it back to a stock angle and that should fix the steering and handling.

The Sumo shaft you have up front should be able to handle the extension and the way the axle travels on a shackle reversal. If I'm not mistaken you can get away with running spacers in the rear with a stock driveshaft in a pinch. If it's a stock shaft and the u-joints are worn out just replace it with something else.
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Old 01-13-2010, 01:28 PM   #20 (permalink)
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I ran the heaviest 33" tire on the market (Toyo MT 33x13.50.... 75 lbs each) on stock sami axles for 2 years. Just trails, no rocks, with Lock-rite in the rear, open front, 5.13s out of tracker front diffs. Worked great for around town. Highway speeds came in the form of a 16v swap.
I never broke an axle with my 1-pound-heavier (76lbs apiece) 33x14.50x15 Super Swamper SSRs. Lots of rocks, Lock-Rites front and rear, 4.57's in the diffs and the AAPA 6.1 t-case. Highway speeds came in the form of a hybrid Samurai/Sidekick/Swift GTi 1300 engine.
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Old 01-14-2010, 10:13 AM   #21 (permalink)
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Don't worry about the engine untill you get the drive train tight. If you get your running gear all ligned up and running smooth, Don't discount the bolt on engine mods as power aids. A good running 1.3L engine with a stock carb and exhaust will get your 31's on your gears to freeway speed on flat ground. A header will let you take an incline at freeway speeds on 31's. A 4 throttle body gxsr with header will let you throw 33's at freeway speeds on an incline.

A 2bbl downdraft webber isn't going to preform any better than your stock carb if you have your stocker running right. The stock carb will actually do better for altitude, and temperature compensation than a webber, so don't toss it out unless it's gone to absolute crap. The hitachi is definitely a bitch to rebuild, and about $250 to replace. If you do toss it, don't bother with an aftermarket downdraft... thats a step backwards. Go with the CV side drafts.
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Old 01-14-2010, 10:49 AM   #22 (permalink)
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So a tune up for the motor, side drafts, and full exhaust.
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Old 01-15-2010, 10:40 PM   #23 (permalink)
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is this what you got after the yota? I just got my sammy smog'd so just need a muffler
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Old 01-16-2010, 09:36 AM   #24 (permalink)
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is this what you got after the yota? I just got my sammy smog'd so just need a muffler
Yes it is. You still at pendleton?
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Old 01-16-2010, 11:46 AM   #25 (permalink)
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OOOh just checked your location. If you run side drafts, make sure you keep the original equipment in storage. You'll need to swap it out every two years to smog it. Only takes a couple hours to do the swap, but if you don't lable the hoses or if you loose any vacuum lines or hoses while in storage, you'll be pulling your hair out trying to figgure out what goes where. when you swap the Hitachi back in for the 2 year inspection. Also, get the Doug Thorely header. It's the only one I know of that is California Smog legal.
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