spua vs spoa

[z1u2k3i]

is it better to run taller springs and keep it spua or is it better to just go spoa with flexier springs ?

[jow003]

what are you wanting to do?

[ShuDuck]

spua with flexy springs

[samurai119]

spoa with yj springs. good flex, good ride, fits 32s easy 33s with minor trimming.

[z1u2k3i]

i would like to make it flexible for the rocks up in the sierras and still be decent daily driver and i want to clear 31's

[skyman6529]

For 31's I would do a Y setup spring under. You might want to ask some guys who have done YJ's under to see how well the 31's fit. ShuDuck is a good resource.

I think 31's are about the cut off for spring under without body mods. If you want to go any bigger you will need to modify the body some.

[flexmonger2]

For 31's, I would go springover with rear springs up front and missing links in the front and revolvers in the back. Simple, cheap, and wont break the bank. Save the money and time in cutting and welding, drilling for gears and lockers.

[TrikeKid]

Originally Posted by flexmonger2

For 31's, I would go springover with rear springs up front and missing links in the front and revolvers in the back. Simple, cheap, and wont break the bank. Save the money and time in cutting and welding, drilling for gears and lockers.

ML's and Revolvers are great if you want a ramp queen, otherwise, standard spring over oughta do you just fine for dd/weekend warrior duty, and won't break the bank.

[flexmonger2]

Originally Posted by TrikeKid

ML's and Revolvers are great if you want a ramp queen, otherwise, standard spring over oughta do you just fine for dd/weekend warrior duty, and won't break the bank.

What you say about a spoa on a sammy is true and it changes everything for the rig. But adding rear springs up front and m/l's to the front adds soo much to the equation. I admit the revolver in the back is possibly not necessary. But adding more lift to the rear with lift springs or longer shackles would be necessary.

[jr4x]

Do both, Mine is sprung over in front with modded rears up front and spring under in the rear with 4 inch sky jacker soft rides for a CJ7. On 32s and have nearly no rubbing issues. Dont need a traction bar it rides great and flexes great. I hated the missing links so I just run 6 inch shackles and main eye relocation plates.

[samurai119]

For 31s and a dd just KISS it. (Keep it simple )

A simple spoa rears up front rears in the back.

Lota bang little bucks. Looks good rides good trails good.

[Baratacus]

for DD you want a stable rig -spring under axel
that dosn't have too harsh a ride- longer springs

for clearing 31's you would need 2-3 inches of lift-yj springs


For a YJ conversion you could go with ML's for the easy route, or go with frame extension for the more stable solution. If you plan on doing other work to the frame or suspension in the future I would go with ML's since it's easily removed or modified.

Going Sping over you're raising the COG of the entire vehicle over the axle and you're spending money on a high steer solution as well as re-welding the perches and shock mounts. SPOA was "THE" quick, cheap, dirty way to lift it, but there are other solutions now that are quicker, about the same price, but much better quality to the ride and the handling.

[twisted one]

im gonna say spua with yjs, i daily drive mine with 33s and ive owned spoa setups as well. the ride and stability spua/yjs is soooo much nicer imho. i do all the same trails and am comfortable on the hwy as well

[5zukyard]

I have run the same spua setup on d/d type sammys since "88. Hack off the load spring about 4 in. on both ends, and add heavy longer leaf with a little lift to it, and in some cases maybe a smaller one as well. I run '30's on those with no ther mods except sliding the front bumper ahead, dropped pitman, sometimes some shackles, and maybe some wheel spacers depending on what wheels I had on at the time. Totally streetable, mild trailable, and dependable forever. When you build longer, wide axle, more trail only type, the most common is spoa. But previous posts are correct, today's tech has made spua more common on these type also. What and how you modify often dictates what direction you you end up going. I have spoa, geared, sammy axled, 1.6s that are pretty much trouble free, good wheeling rigs that are pretty much the normal buildup. Have had no experience with the more advanced, home modded type rigs, that these guys run, but almost always the more its messed with, the more you will be messing with it. Just my 2sense.

[skyman6529]

Flexmonger has been wheeling a zook for a long time (as a lot of guys here) Now days there's a lot of options that were not out there before. Spring under will be more stable than spring over, it's just how it is. Not that spring over is bad, it's just a different type of ride.

We all know the simplest (fabrication, knowledge, bolt on wise) The missing links from sky or trail tough with either rears up front, or drop links(not missing links)/revolvers, is going to be the easiest to build, not necessarily the cheapest.

The reason I suggested YJ's is that it can be done spring under axle. With the guy running 31's, he should be able to run the hi-way at 80MPH comfortable as long as his engine will support it. That is not always the case when you go spring over.

My advice to you is to research these guys posts, consider your budget, fabrication knowledge and what you want out of the rig. Then choose the build that suits you best. I strongly advise you to put your handling/wheeling wants in front of budget and build time. Money spent now on good steering correction, poly bushings, good shocks etc.), will save you a LOT of headaches, money an time own the road.

What fun is a rig you want to Daily drive, and weekend wheel if you are not comfortable with the way it handles on the road?

FWIW
A well built Samurai on 31's can out wheel a lot of rigs on 33's. Don't know why, they just do. I've seen Zook's on 31's and no lockers just climb and climb. When they show up everyone shakes their heads, when they start wheeling their jaws drop and they start asking how, and WTF?

[TrikeKid]

Originally Posted by flexmonger2

What you say about a spoa on a sammy is true and it changes everything for the rig. But adding rear springs up front and m/l's to the front adds soo much to the equation. I admit the revolver in the back is possibly not necessary. But adding more lift to the rear with lift springs or longer shackles would be necessary.

Revolvers are garbage, and are a poor choice regardless of application. I don't like missing links because they're only a slightly better version of the same crap. You can do ruf without missing links. Uncontrolled droop is bad enough, uncontrolled droop in a super short rig like a stock length samurai is borderline dangerous. Besides the slop and sway that ML's can add.

I'll take less flex while being stable over having a ton of unpredictable flex any day of the week.

[ShuDuck]

Originally Posted by twisted one

im gonna say spua with yjs, i daily drive mine with 33s and ive owned spoa setups as well. the ride and stability spua/yjs is soooo much nicer imho. i do all the same trails and am comfortable on the hwy as well

you got 33" spua? pics?





I see absolutely no point of spoa for 31", they are so easy to fit without a lift. Ruining the handling an all round versatility with spoa I do not get. It is the most popular way, and the easiest and often cheapest way so I can see why so many go this route though. 2" OME spua will be great for an all round rig, and very simple, bolt on. YJ spua would be even better. Personally I would not run M/L

for a hard trail only rig spoa is a good solution when done right. For everything else, and for good performance overall, spua is the way to go

[twisted one]

Shu, ill have to see bout taking pics, dont do much of that, uptravel is limited but the stability, ride and general driveability of the spua on yjs is more than worth the loss of a lil up travel

ray

[ShuDuck]

cool, look forward to see it. I got limited uptravel as well but as you say it is well worth it

[flexmonger2]

Originally Posted by z1u2k3i

i would like to make it flexible for the rocks up in the sierras and still be decent daily driver and i want to clear 31's

Zuk+rocks+rubicon+31's=spoa
SPUA on the con with yj's gives stability but those u bolts are going to be dragging all over the place and those shackles are gonna hit everything. Why, because you do not have enough clearance. Thats why sammies with spoa and 31's kick ass. As far as flex, spoa in almost all situations flexes more than a spua.
Going spua axle with yjs and spending that much time effort and money is like putting coils on with short contol arms and stock shocks. But that is just my opinion.

[sh996]

Hey everyone, haven't been on Pirate in quite some time. Saw this post and thought I'd give my opinion as well. I've been wheeling samurai's for about 13 years now, I've had 7 different samurai's and 7 different variants of lift and suspension. My current one sits on 35's, toy axles, 1/4 eliptic rear, coil front, and I've been wheeling it for over 5 yrs.

One of my favorites that I built a couple years ago was a small one running 30" tires, rear locker, GRSI t-case, skid plates, roll cage, winch, etc. I did a small SPOA and ran rear springs up front. It was a great daily driver, VERY stable, I kept the sway bar hooked up, and it also did well on the trails and even in some small rocks. I've got pics to prove it if someone wants to post them for me.

I agree with the guys (like flexmonger) in support of the SPOA. It's very simple to do, keeps the u-bolts from getting snagged in the rocks, you can control the amount of lift by using shorter or longer spring perches, keeps the shackles up out of the way in front, etc, etc. Everyone has their opinion of course, but to me the SPOA is the best way to go with the most options and fine tuning to address the street handling and still perform well off-road.

If what z1u2k3i wants is something that "is flexible in the rocks" and "still be DECENT daily driver", then I think SPOA is the way to go to get the best of those two criteria.

Trikekid: I ran ML's on one of my earlier samurais. They performed fine, I liked them ok, and the droop wasn't "uncontrollable" as you say. They weren't the best on road, true, but my experience wasn't nearly as bad as you say they are and would qualify as "decent" to me. Have you ever ran them? Maybe you didn't give it enough time to get used to them and their characteristics? Oh, and it certainly wasn't a ramp queen, I ran several trails up in your neck of the woods regularly with them.

[Airzuk42]

Originally Posted by twisted one

im gonna say spua with yjs, i daily drive mine with 33s and ive owned spoa setups as well. the ride and stability spua/yjs is soooo much nicer imho. i do all the same trails and am comfortable on the hwy as well

Are you saying that you are spua with yjs with 33s? Any pictures?

[DRKelly]

Originally Posted by Airzuk42

Are you saying that you are spua with yjs with 33s? Any pictures?

I'm SPUA with YJ's with 34's.








There are pictures on Zuwharrie.com.
http://bbs.zuwharrie.com/content/topic,63129.60.html

[Baratacus]

the whole "rocks will catch your u-bolts thing... I'd rather have my zuke scrape over a rock with the spring and mangle my ubolt threads than smash into that rock with the axle housing. Replace a ubolt vs replacing your front housing and possibly axle? I vote for the u-bolt to take the hit.
For the limiting factor of spring under YJ's on 31's... He'd have to be seriously jacked up to rub anything, even without triming the body.

The only practical reason to lift a solid axle rig is to clear bigger tires which you run to clear bigger obstacles with your solid axle. With 31's thats as high as your axle will clear and YJ's will clear the body and tires just fine. No need to lift the body and CG up any higher cause you aren't clearing anything more.. you're just making it more tippy.

[jst1818s]

So would which way for 3 inch of lift and better ride quality (just not beating me to death). I have seen the Rocky Road Outfitters 3inch spua Deaver spring lift. (expensive)

Trying keeping the cost down by not having to upgrade sway bar and steering. Trying to be cheap but not have it unreliable (I mean breaking thing all the time....needs to be RELIABLE) Yj Springs spua or spoa? What shackles? What else am I missing. I know nothing about these vehicles..... my area has been full size and buggies.