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Old 11-03-2010, 03:11 PM   #1 (permalink)
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3 Link w/ Panhard Front Suspension

So I've been researching linking the front of my samurai and have decided due to packaging issues that a 3 link w/ panhard is my best option. I've been messing around with the 3 link calculator but wanted to get some real world experienced opinions on how to build it. Mainly, what numbers to shoot for.

The rig is stretched 4" in the rear on XJ leafs and fox 2.0's. 37's. Toyota Axles. Toyota IFS steering box. Shooting for 98-100" wb and a 22-23" belly height.

I've searched a lot, but most of the good threads are in the Gen4x4 section and don't specifically pertain to samurais.

Any info you can give me before I start setting up the links would be beneficial. Pictures also would be extremely helpful. Thanks!
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Old 11-03-2010, 03:15 PM   #2 (permalink)
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/forum/general-4x4-discussion/546241-help-me-fix-my-broken-front-suspension-geometry.html

^ This was one of the better threads on 3 link/panhards I've read so far...
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Old 11-03-2010, 04:23 PM   #3 (permalink)
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4 link actually fits pretty easy
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Old 11-03-2010, 05:57 PM   #4 (permalink)
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i did mine with the 3 link and panhard bar. 16" fox air shocks. also running yota axles.
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Old 11-03-2010, 06:03 PM   #5 (permalink)
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This is my KentFab design.
The only thing i wish i would a done differently is the pan hard going from driver side frame to passenger side axle.



(yes these pics are OLD)
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Old 11-04-2010, 01:25 PM   #6 (permalink)
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Quote:
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4 link actually fits pretty easy
How? With the exhaust running down the driver side frame rail?


Any pictures with the upper mounted on top of the pumpkin and to the inside of the frame?

What material is everyone using for lowers/uppers. I'm leaning towards 1.75 0.25 wall. for the lowers. Opinions?
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Old 11-04-2010, 02:30 PM   #7 (permalink)
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4 link actually fits pretty easy
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How? With the exhaust running down the driver side frame rail?
About what I was going to say. Not sure if he was referring to a triangulated 4 link, or parallel w/ panhard, but either way there isn't room without serious frame mods and/or moving the axle WAY forward


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Any pictures with the upper mounted on top of the pumpkin and to the inside of the frame?

What material is everyone using for lowers/uppers. I'm leaning towards 1.75 0.25 wall. for the lowers. Opinions?

Not a great pic, I will try to find a better one, but that is exactly where my upper is



My lowers are 2" .250, and uppers are 1.5" .120

and the calculator
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Old 11-04-2010, 02:33 PM   #8 (permalink)
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I used 2x.25 for lowers cause it was easy to get, and fit the bungs for my heims.
lowers are straight
uppers are triangulated



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Old 11-04-2010, 02:40 PM   #9 (permalink)
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Toyota IFS steering box
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Originally Posted by Hvy_Chevy View Post
lowers are straight
uppers are triangulated
I assume you're running full hydro?

*edit replied before I looked at the last pic
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Old 11-04-2010, 03:43 PM   #10 (permalink)
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I will try to find a better one
a little bit better



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Old 11-04-2010, 04:14 PM   #11 (permalink)
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Quote:
This is my KentFab design.
The only thing i wish i would a done differently is the pan hard going from driver side frame to passenger side axle.
So.... wait. You didn't install you're panhard backwards did you??? Cause that would be like the most incredible bumpsteer ever
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Old 11-04-2010, 04:40 PM   #12 (permalink)
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Im runnin a dual triangulated 4 link with an aerio 2.3 and all i had to do was cut the frame a little bit. I refuse to use a panhard setup. 4 links locating the axle left to right is way better than 1.

Ill take some pics this weekend after i get the front axle back under it.

Will
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Old 11-04-2010, 05:13 PM   #13 (permalink)
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I refuse to use a panhard setup. 4 links locating the axle left to right is way better than 1.


You make a pretty broad statement with no reasoning. Care to enlighten us?

FWIW I have nothing against triangulated links instead of a panhard, if I didn't have mechanical steering that's probably what I would do.

Also this car works OK with 'only one link locating left to right'
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Old 11-05-2010, 12:32 AM   #14 (permalink)
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Its just a personal preference, i shoulda said that instead of how i worded it. My cruiser has a panhard bar and it works great.

And yes, that car works well. Better than anything ill ever build.
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Old 11-05-2010, 02:07 PM   #15 (permalink)
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I love how HVY_CHEVY says stuff like.. "4 link actually fits pretty easy"

then you see his pictures and it's like.. "WTF am I even looking at? is that the front of a samurai"

Apparently The definition of "Easy" differs from person to person..
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Old 11-05-2010, 02:32 PM   #16 (permalink)
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if you're looking to link the front end, chopping the frame off shouldn't seem like that daunting of a mod.
I did it using my trailer as a workbench with my rig on the lawn.
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Old 11-05-2010, 11:24 PM   #17 (permalink)
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So.... wait. You didn't install you're panhard backwards did you??? Cause that would be like the most incredible bumpsteer ever
you are joking right?

the reason i don't like it, is because my axle shifts a little to the right and the driveline kinda rubs on a bolt i have there.
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Old 11-05-2010, 11:50 PM   #18 (permalink)
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haha! sorry, i guess you could say i was hesitantly joking. I'm no expert around here, and after seeing timmy's build i realize that not everyone learns about the basic geometry BEFORE they crack out the welder

Yours looks great in the pic btw, i'm trying to do a similar setup right now
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Old 11-06-2010, 10:43 AM   #19 (permalink)
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lol its all good.

i understand the geometry of links. but i have never really understood how the pan hard works. all i know is it keeps the axle centered.. If it was a street rig i woulda researched it more.

PS i miss timmy! lol
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Old 11-08-2010, 12:57 AM   #20 (permalink)
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Has anyone used one of the stock leaf spring mounts for the upper link? I'm having a hard time building my upper link mount because I need room for airbags on the lowers, so I was wondering how that would work. Pics would be awesome if possible!

Also I'm using a full width chevy dana 60 front not that it really matters
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Old 11-08-2010, 05:07 AM   #21 (permalink)
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So.... wait. You didn't install you're panhard backwards did you??? Cause that would be like the most incredible bumpsteer ever
I wheel with a guy that built exactly what stoney did and it does have the worst bump steer of all time.

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lol its all good.

i understand the geometry of links. but i have never really understood how the pan hard works. all i know is it keeps the axle centered.. If it was a street rig i woulda researched it more.

PS i miss timmy! lol
Its all good as long as its a trail only rig like you say. Since your panhard goes the oposite direction of the drag link when the suspension compresses it makes your tires steer to the right with out any movement from the steering wheel. So you hit the brakes it steers to right all by itself. Hit the gas and it goes left all by its self. Drive on a bumpy paved road going 20 mph or up and it looks like a drunk is driving.
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Old 11-08-2010, 06:50 AM   #22 (permalink)
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Couple of things to get out of the way and figure out before welding.

How far can you either push the ifs steering box forward to clear the panhard rod.

Will the panhard clear steering linkage, coils, shocks, bracketry, driveline? Pvc is a cheap and easy way to mock all of that.

Yes its preferable to have the draglink and panhard be the same length and both to have good flat geometry so they do not fight against each other.

As far as performance the flatter or parallel to the same ground the more likely the front will "hook up" on the rocks and climb over stuff. It will also tend to not lift the back end up when you reverse. How do you achieve this? Look at the expamples of where's folks notched the frame. Noone does extra work for no reason. Its a PITA but its worth it. You lose ground clearance but its worth it when trying to climb especially with a swb vehicle. Vertical separation is less critical in the front it sees less torque due to weight transfer but keep it within reason.
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Old 11-08-2010, 01:18 PM   #23 (permalink)
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I wheel with a guy that built exactly what stoney did and it does have the worst bump steer of all time.
Just to be clear, stoney did NOT in fact do that. Read a couple posts up, he already corrected me. He said it just rubs on a bolt because he didn't quite make the tolerances perfect.

Also- Hvy_Chevy: what are you using for a front driveshaft, a toyota cv front? Just wondering because I notice that with mine up that high the stock u joint won't make it.
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Old 11-10-2010, 08:16 AM   #24 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jr4x View Post
I wheel with a guy that built exactly what stoney did and it does have the worst bump steer of all time.



Its all good as long as its a trail only rig like you say. Since your panhard goes the oposite direction of the drag link when the suspension compresses it makes your tires steer to the right with out any movement from the steering wheel. So you hit the brakes it steers to right all by itself. Hit the gas and it goes left all by its self. Drive on a bumpy paved road going 20 mph or up and it looks like a drunk is driving.
i think that only applies if you have a drag link.. i have a ram up front.
The reason it bugs me is because the axle will shift over to the right a little and the driveline will rub on the lower control arm bolt..
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Old 11-10-2010, 09:38 AM   #25 (permalink)
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Originally Posted by bakerthewrench View Post
Also- Hvy_Chevy: what are you using for a front driveshaft, a toyota cv front? Just wondering because I notice that with mine up that high the stock u joint won't make it.
Toyota IFS non-CV... good to 42*
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