48" Press Brake Project

[Benderart]

Originally Posted by BESRK

The really fawked up part is that, this will be the 3rd batch. I didn't mention the first batch that I mismeasured..

Must be catching, common here but I thought it was an age thing....

[MQYJ]

Originally Posted by BESRK

The really fawked up part is that, this will be the 3rd batch. I didn't mention the first batch that I mismeasured..

Been there done that. I have a pile of three 1/4" plates that I mis-cut and then proceeded to alter the drawing wrong three times before I finally got it right. Sorry to hijack the thread with a bit of comedic relief. Back to your regular program.

[BESRK]

Got the pivot tubes bored for the bushings on the slave arm.. and mocked it up.


Here's the tube I'm using for the connecting link. It was old "lower link" material from my old buggy.. Had to remove a bit of material from the ID in order to fit the heims in place..


If I ever get around to building another buggy, I know where my "trail spares" will come from for the heim joints..


Mocked up and ready to tack weld..




Testing the arms and linkage system..
Press Brake Test - YouTube

[tikka308]

AWESOME! Thanks for posting the video!

[Benderart]

Good job mate....must give a satisfied felling knowing you built from scratch.
Maybe I missed the detail but, are the bushings able to be lubricated??

[carslut]

amazing!........ id give my first born for something built this well but..... i don't have kids and u cant have my dog ...........

maybe i can order a bent piece or 2 from u to hang on the shop walls for good joojoo...

keep up the great work.

[BESRK]

Originally Posted by Benderart

Good job mate....must give a satisfied felling knowing you built from scratch.
Maybe I missed the detail but, are the bushings able to be lubricated??

They're oilite bushings. However, this thing will never spin fast enough to warm them up (releasing the oil). So.. I'll probably just coat the pins with grease when I reassemble.. maybe grease them yearly or so. I thought about installing zerks and cutting some grooves in the pins but at this point, I'm not gonna mess with it.

[BESRK]

Just dropped $1500 on a 48" die (1.5"), a 36" die (2"), and a 48" punch (85 deg). Hopefully, they'll be here in the next few days.

[Todd W]

Originally Posted by BESRK

Just dropped $1500 on a 48" die (1.5"), a 36" die (2"), and a 48" punch (85 deg). Hopefully, they'll be here in the next few days.

Congrats That video really puts it into perspective. Nice work!

[North Shore Fab]

what will keep you from over traveling on the down stroke? looks like you could do some serious damage if you just got WOT. when the punch plate is all the way up is the cylinder fully compressed? was there much design to to getting that right or do you just make your linkage longer shorter?

I have used a log splitter before never took the time to think how that valve works. is there a pressure spike when it is fully closed and it just throws the valve back to neutral?

[BESRK]

At full bottom, the hydro system hits the "bypass"... I've already done it. However, during normal usage, I'll set the "stroke control valve" to limit downstroke.
The detent valve is adjustable. I think the factory setting is set to trigger at approx 600psi.
I did some early measuring for cylinder stroke when I was drawing everything in CAD. However, it's easy enough to make some adjustments by changing the clevis end, connecting link length, even shackle length if need be.

[BESRK]

Did some more fitting/testing this evening. I slide the lower die into the middle of the die opening. When the die was near the right side (looking at it from the log splitter valve), the guillotine guide plates kept the lower die are stable. When the die was moved to the center of the machine, stuff started moving around while trying to test bend 18" of 3/16". So.. I layed some weld.. securing the 1"x2" hot rolled "die bed" to the main frame and supporting gussets. That stiffened it up alot. I've still got more welding to do but I was able to move forward with some more test bending..

I was also able to play around with the stroke control valve.. here's another video showing how the stroke control works..
Press Brake Stroke Control Test - YouTube

[madfab]

Nice!!!

[North Shore Fab]

thanks for the updated video eddie!!!!

how will you figure out the angles? i know you can come down and with your stroke control threaded all the way up but correct me here. you wont know what angle you bent untill you take the pressure off and check for spring back. and once you come up you are no longer at the same position.

i see two solutions for setting the angle after its already figured out. lets say you need two inches of threads sticking out to make a 60* bend if you could make a pin that you drop in there and secure some how, you could just make pins for the same thickness, die, material, bend combo. if you do a lot of repeat parts week in and week out. then you dont have to fuck with it every time to get it where you want, drop the pin and pull the lever. could become a lot of pins as that length would change if any of the previous variables change.

option to would be some type of scale. similar to how some people take a digital caliper and mod it to be a DRO for the z axis on then mills. you would have to keep notes again of all the shit listed above so you know how far to move. could also use the tube bandit that is used for tubbing benders. instead of the pulley put a spur gear on there and get a small gear rack for it to spin in. this should give an actually angle measure in the DRO and would account for spring back. i personally have never used one but i think you can 0 them. so if used in conjunction with the caliper idea you can set your caliper a set distance from TDC, say jog it down 1.5 inches then zero the tube bandit.


i guess you would zero it just as the punch die touches the work piece. i am thinking out loud and talking from my ass. and not sure if this just complicates it but it sounds cool in my head.

[BESRK]

Actually, I was planning on keeping good records on parts that I bend frequently. I'm kind of liking the DRO setup. I've actually got a drill press that has a digital readout on it for "spindle height". It is able to be zeroed. I might take a closer look around for a simple setup.. or just use a dial caliper. Maybe switch out to a "precision" Acme thread and use a graduated wheel.

I'm sure there will a learning curve associated with setting this thing up. I just need to zero in on something simple for us.

[BESRK]

Ordered this today.. it was only about $35 so we'll see how it works. With 6" of travel, I should be able to raise the guillotine to a positive stop, zero the DRO, work down to the depth I need for a particular bend/material/piece, and annotate that setting in a log book.





I'll probably do something similar for the backgauge. I probably should have picked up a 2 axis DRO.. maybe I'll get a better one later on down the road.



.

[North Shore Fab]

i think that in conjunction with the tube bandit would be tits. as you can get it all figured out and zeroed after some trial and error to give an actually angle DRO.

i would think that for a given die opening and material thickness that the travel from just touching the plate to BDC is going to be the same. if you have .125 and jog down to the top of the plate and zero your bandit and do a 60* bend that the distance traveled would be the same if you did a .25 plate to the same degree and same die?

the trick would be finding out home many revs it takes to make one degree on the bandits and then the gear ratio you would need from the rack the the spur to the pulley reduction... it could be done im sure of it!!! i just really want to see an actually angle read out

[BESRK]

Hmmm.. interesting.

I could probably do the same thing with my digital angle finder. Just clamp it to a plate and bend. Do the math to come up with a ratio of stroke travel-to-angle. With that formula, it would be pretty easy to program in an angle by doing the math to figure out the stoke required for the desired angle.

I can check the first few bends with a simple protractor but once it's zeroed in, the stroke control will allow repitition for that piece.

One thing I see in my future will be doing lots of "production runs" of items. I won't want to spend time setting up the machine all the time. So instead of cutting/bending 2-3 winch plates (for instance) at a time, I'll want to do 20 or 30.

If this thing works out like I'm praying it will.. I'll probably convert it to CNC at some point...

[North Shore Fab]

im interested to see how it all works out for you... i waiting for you to get the bugs out and then having the thick plates cut a local shop and building my own. only thing i need is 5 inch cylinder and stroke control valve.

III has a plc for a grand and it seems pretty simply and smart enough for what it needs to do not sure if it will run a back gauge or not. but it some how knows how far it has traveled, maybe it uses a scale similar to what you posted.

[BESRK]

Wow! I ordered that little DRO 2 days ago and it was waiting for me when I got home today. That's pretty dang quick from Cali to Virginia!

[seanmurphy265]

Is there enough difference between your press brake and Iraquois' press brake that you can sell your plans? Just totaling up the list of materials on the first page is $5492.00. The price on Iroquois website is basicly $15,000.00. I'm thinking you should do like Swagg Offroad and sell the plates precut with a set of plans, and a B.O.M. list!!!!! The average guy fabricating and welding on the weekend could never justify $15,000.00, but $7,000.00 (purchasing the pre-cut plates and shipping) would in reach for the average guy. This could be a project that you can buy the parts as you can afford them, and eventually you would have something. The same as building your own plasma table, it takes about 6 months, but eventually you get it finished and you saved money.

[PAToyota]

Well, you're looking at $5500 in materials and then $1500 in shipping - but no cost for BESRK's labor, consumables, and other costs. I'm guessing to make it worthwhile to make a kit you'd end up over $10K and still have to have the ability to put it together - don't forget tech support costs in BESRK's price...

[North Shore Fab]

if you knew that you would be selling one a month or had orders lined up, you would be able to cut cost buy going to an actual hydraulic parts distributor ( id say any one but parker and nachi) and get a rep and order just through them. you'll get better parts then what your getting through northern and the will most likely give you a killer deal if they see you doing one a month. down side to that is you may have to buy all the shit for 12 machines up front. until you really get in their good graces and they allow you to just pick up as needed but they stock your parts and they float the bill till you go in and get it.


as far as being different from the III brake i think it would be hard to say. i have always been told a 10% change on something makes it your own. there are only so many ways you can build a brake. not sure if they have a patent on anything but once the product is released into the market with out one it is fair game to copy it.

in retro spec i think it would be in his best interest to just sell the plans. If you don't have the ability to cut the thick plate or have a table big enough i am sure there is a water jet or industrial plaz with in a reasonable distance to the buyer and just send them the dxf and save the 1500 on shipping plates across country.

[03ramit1]

Originally Posted by seanmurphy265

The same as building your own plasma table, it takes about 6 months, but eventually you get it finished and you saved money.

Saved money yeah I did, but 6 months? I think not. I have spent every saterday afternoon and Sunday on my table, and it has not quite been a month. I have also built a work bench in the same window. I'm guessing I have a total of about 35-40 hours in my table. And about 6 in my workbench. I still gotta weld up a water tray but that is all. Then power everything up and start cutting.

I do like the idea of build it as you can afford it though. And selling the plans and dxf seems like the best solution. You could also include a list of partnumbers and where to get them also. As that would be a big help. I know I can't afford it right now nor do I have room for it, but I would buy the plans for when I can afford it and have the space for it.

[BESRK]

I don't think I'd be interested in selling a bolt-together kit. If anything, selling the DXF and a detailed list of materials would be the way to go. Truth be told though.. I'd feel kind of low selling someone else's design.

I only built this brake for myself because I didn't have $15K sitting around, I have the resources (shop, plasma table, mill, lathe..etc.), and I was fairly confident in my ability to pull it off. If I had the $$$, I would have just ponied up and bought an Iriquois.

I'm in about $5500-$6000 so far. Still have to do the back-gauge.. which I'm figuring on another $400-$500 or so.

I'm hoping that this press will pay itself off rather quickly.. like my plasma table did. Got a bunch of projects I'm anxious to try out.

BTW.. the dies were sitting on the front doorstep when I got home this afternoon. I finished welding up all the pivot tubes this evening. We're going to reassemble everything tomorrow night and hopefully do some good testing over the next few days.