Here is a direct copy and paste from something I wrote on another message board.

Why I bought a 6.0L diesel - A post for the haters

I'm fairly tired of all the mis-information regarding the 6.0L diesel. Here is my input.

I was a 7.3L guy through and through. I've had 6 of them, all with minor issues and only one with a major issue (dropped a valve). None of them were "trouble free" like people state. Every engine needs repairs, pure and simple. The plus side to the 7.3L, is most of those repairs are easy enough for a guy with good mechanical skill to do in his driveway.

Here is why I now own a 6.0L diesel and not a 7.3L.
I was on the hunt for a nice, clean 7.3L. The market for them is absolutely insane. In my opinion, they are way overpriced for what they are. A 2002 or 2003 rust free 7.3L crew cab, long bed, 4x4 with 150K miles will fetch about 16-17K dollars. That's ridiculous. I have driven a 2005+ coil sprung superduty many times and the ride is so much better than the <2003 superduty that it would make it tough to go back to the "old truck". Not to mention, the coil sprung front end makes the turning radius far better than the leaf springs. This is critical for towing. Keep in mind I won't compare a 2003-2004 6.0L in this post. 2003-2004 6.0L had a considerable amount of issues, combined with the leaf sprung front suspensions, and older front facia, do not make a very ideal combination.

So, I started reading about the 6.0L. There are 5 major complaints. Lets start off by saying the worst thing for a 6.0L is daily driving it empty 10-15 miles to work. If that is your daily routine for the truck, don't buy a 6.0L. If you are looking for a diesel that you can drive like you stole it and tow a ton, you'll like the 6.0L. For the record, I am pulling 21K (combined truck and trailer) with my truck and it is smother than my old 7.3L pulling 15K combined.
EGR plugging- The EGR cooler gets built up with carbon and doesn't flow correctly. It can also get plugged with sand from the coolant (see fix below). When it plugs, you run the risk of blowing head gaskets. If you tow a lot or push the truck, the EGR will remain cleaner than if the truck idles a lot. Again, the truck likes to be pushed hard. Many retailers have developed EGR delete kits, or bulletproof EGR coolers.
Oil/Coolant coolers – The oil is tied into the coolant system; the coolant helps cool the oil. There is a problem with the 6.0L having sand in the casting from the factory. The sand ends up blocking the oil cooler and oil temps spike out of control. This causes oil leaks, turbo issues and even coolant related issues due to lack of flow. The solution is fairly simple - Put a DIY coolant filter in place. A full kit is about $120, but some people claim to build them yourself for about $50 and after 5K-10K miles (and 3-4 filter changes) the sand will be 100% removed.
Turbo – The 6.0L has a variable vain turbo, unlike the 7.3L. A variable vane turbo can change the angle of the blades to maximize boost/efficiency. If the truck isn't pushed hard, the vanes won't travel their full path very often. If that happens, carbon gets built up in certain places between each vane. Once the turbo gets carbon built up inside it, the vanes can become stuck and you run the risk of overboost, and blowing the headgaskets. This seems to be most likely on 03-04 engines. Again, if you push the truck hard or tow with it, the turbo vanes will travel full sweeps to keep the turbo clean. If you drive the truck light, you have a higher chance of building up carbon. Ford eventually put in a "turbo dither" calibration that forced the vanes to travel a full path on shutdown to prevent carbon build-up. Turbo failures on post 2005 trucks are fairly rare (or the same rate as a 7.3L). If you have a 2003-2004 turbo, drive the truck like you stole it and you won't have this issue.
Headstuds – the head bolts aren't actually an issue themselves, the issue is when other parts fail (EGR and turbo) and stress the head bolts. The ARP headstuds should be put in to place just to protect the heads incase other parts fail.
Injectors- People complain about the 03 and 04 injectors failing. The injectors cost the same as 7.3L injectors, and once they are replaced, are fairly trouble free. Keep the oil changed and you should be fine. Again, 2005+ trucks tend to have less issues.

So… aftermarket companies like Sinister Diesel have developed kits that address a lot of these issues.
http://www.mkmcustoms.com/60powerstrokesolution.aspx
They will take care of the EGR, oil cooler, and headstuds. The kit is ~$1400 ($1800 with a tune, which can put you at 400hp and turns off the EGR OBD system to turn off your check engine light) and a shop will charge about 2500-3000 to install it (some cheaper).

So back to why I bought a 6.0L…. It is still very easy to find rust free (or close) 2005-2007 trucks with the 6.0L, and in a lot of cases, they are the same price as a rust free 2002 or 2003 7.3L. You can put $4400 into repairs/upgrades into a 2005-2007 6.0L and have a very reliable 400 hp, 675+ ft lb diesel that is quiet, comfortable, turns great, rides nice, doesn't pollute, etc. The 6.0L intake/exhaust/auto trans can support 500hp, so no worries there. Stock injectors can support 400 hp.
Or you can buy a rust free 7.3L and put $1500 into intake, exhaust, gauges and a tune and you might be able to squeeze out 300 hp/ 575 ft lbs from it. Anything more than that and you need injectors, oil pump, turbo, and a $3500 trans.

In my opinion, the 6.0L is one of the few engines that if you know what you are getting into prior to purchasing one, and you convince yourself you need to put $4500 into it right away (most people struggle with that), then you will be very happy with your purchase. The 2003-2004 6.0L made a very rocky road for the 2005-2007 6.0L trucks, which have far less issues.

 

This is a great post. One of the best I've read in quite awhile.

That's the kind of info I'm looking for. Thanks guys!

What do you think about this one. It's got a lot of miles (170K) but looks like it's in good shape and the price is low.

http://www.fugateford.com/new-ford-...56-XLT-4WD/186/1FTWW31P25EA29404/~/VehicleType_~Price1_~Make_Ford~Model_F-350/4

Too bad that truck is in Wa. or I'd be all over it.

 

and from another thread, but regarding the 6.0L performance
(And my truck and trailer are for sale here).
http://www.pirate4x4.com/forum/showthread.php?t=995408&highlight=

FOR SALE

Truck:
2005 F350 CC LB
Drive:
4x4
Engine:
6.0L PSD
Trans:
manual
Axle ratio:
3.55:1 or 3.73:1, need to verify
Tires:
stock 18"s
Mods:
No perforamce mods, just engine monitors (Edge)

Best Fuel Economy Empty (7500 lb):
18 mpg at 70 mph

Best Fuel Economy Loaded (21,000 lb combined):
13.5 mpg at 63 mph. 10 mpg at 72 mph.

Load / Driving:
extra tall 30'/39' enclosed gooseneck, fully loaded with buggy, gear, tools, spare parts, etc

this was without spare parts, weekend food, beverages, coolers, etc.

 

I agree with the above. Went from a 7.3 truck to an 06 6.0 and wouldn't go back. Turning radius is a huge improvement as well as ride. Trying to back a trailer with a 05-07 is night and day compared to a <04.

 

Pay 4500 up front to get rid of the 6.0 issues that WILL pop up, or put 4500 in the bank to rebuild the 7.3 automatic transmission that WILL blow up down the road, especially if you tow hard.

Diesels are an expensive game.

That is how I looked at things when I bought my Excursion. I ended up with a 7.3 and I have been saving for a transmission, I did not find a deal I was happy enough with for a 6.0 to throw 4500 into it right off.


Or get a 7.3 manual. I loved my old truck.

 

A 6.0 Excursion uses the same 4R100 transmission as the 7.3

 

Its usually not the egr cooler that clogs, but rather the egr valve itself.

While I do agree with the above post regarding common problems and fixes, those aren't the full extent of common problems. Other stuff would include; Oil rail stand pipes and plugs, HPOP and STC fitting, and FICM.

Oil rail stand pipes and plugs: These o-rings will break and cause hard start conditions due to oil pressure not building enough or quick enough for the injectors. These would be (or should be) updated with the new style during a head gasket job if it is already apart.

HPOP and STC fittin: The HPOP do go out (not the most common but still a costly fix) causing the engine not to run because of no high pressure oil for the injectors. The STC fitting is more common of an issue. It has the same characteristics of the oil rail stand pipes and plugs. These were supposed to be the new style by 06 but they are still hit and miss on what trucks got them and what didn't. The STC should be updated to the new style during a head gasket job.

FICM: The fuel injection control module is the computer that steps up battery voltage to 47-49 volts to fire the injectors. This can cause all sorts of symptoms from no start to rough run when cold to a slight miss. Problems are caused when ficm voltage drops to 46.5 volts or below. This usually goes out because low battery voltage due to bad batteries or alternator. I believe it shouldn't go below 11 volts (maybe 10) and the ficm has to work a lot harder and fries a circuit. This thing is costly to replace, usually 3 hours labor and around 700 for the computer.

Can you make it pretty reliable? Yes
Do they make good power stock and a whole lot more with a programmer? Hell yes
Do they ride great? No doubt about it

Would I still buy one, probably not.

Besides having to drop so much in them to get them reliable, another problem is that when you do have problems with no start or runs rough, the cost for diagnosis is high do to the amount of things that can be wrong. You also HAVE to have some sort of scan tool to daig these things. So think about those extra costs to have a shop do it.

-Garret

 

The stand pipes and plugs and the STC fitting are all easy cheap fixes WHILE you are doing something with the EGR/oil coolers.

Another thing to remember is that most HPOP, stand pipe/plug and many injector problems are from overheating the oil, it cooks the seals and orings until they don't seal anymore.

Many people are fixing their own FICMS now, and even dealers are fixing them in-house. And really, its not like FICMS fail all the time. All FICMs that I have replaced have been original with +100k on them.

 

That's the kind of info I'm looking for. Thanks guys!

What do you think about this one. It's got a lot of miles (170K) but looks like it's in good shape and the price is low.

http://www.fugateford.com/new-ford-...56-XLT-4WD/186/1FTWW31P25EA29404/~/VehicleType_~Price1_~Make_Ford~Model_F-350/4

 

The price is a little high IMHO. There are plenty of dealers trying to get these off their lots and they adjust the price accordingly.

 

You guys know way more about this than me. Just had to jump in and say we have 2 6.0's at the farm. They are only used to cart around the horses and tow in the gravity boxes in to town. 440 and 500 bushel boxes. The only problem we have had is the King Ranch had a cracked turbo. It was covered buy the dealer. Love the trucks except the KR interior witch is meant for a car. Unfinished leather has no bissness in a truck. Love the trucks overall.

 

Love the trucks except the KR interior witch is meant for a car. Unfinished leather has no bissness in a truck. Love the trucks overall.

So you paid extra for Leather you have to care for and maintain (just like the saddles on your horses) in a farm truck, and are bitching about said leather?

In short... NO. the 6.0 is a boat anchor. if you want reliability, stay away from them.

awesome post, you convinced me!

go drive around in your 30mpg+ while towing a house truck and let the adults talk here.


OP - search my posts in this forum for info on MY 6.0. I posted a month or so ago on my real experiences and how I use my truck... FWIW, I have no regrets and until I can get a Ford truck with a Cummins and an Allison from the Factory, Ford still makes the best off the lot truck.


:usa:

 

I really like the looks of the later 6.0L PSD trucks with the newer frontend and nicer interiors. These trucks can be found in great shape with low miles for around $15K.


I've read about some of the mods the guys are doing to the 6.0L Powerstrokes that claim they make the motors just as reliable as the older 7.3L. I'm not looking to make lots of aftermarket power. Just needs to be able to haul my camper, and tow the boat or Jeep.

Sorry if I jumped the gun and didnt see it, which part of WA are you in because I'm having a real hard time spotting a 6.0 truck '05-07" for $15k, I get close with $20k.

I recently made a thread asking about the newer PSD's got a lot of fingers pointed in many directions. But for the most part it seems like theres just a couple mods and then you're sittin pretty good. A lot of people are going to point at the 7.3 because it has a better record (stock), but like you said, hard to find cheap, and low mileage.

 

I've been a Ford man my whole life, only own 1 chevy engine and it's in my Model A, I drive a 00 F250 7.3 w 220k miles on it that is paid for and plan to run it til the wheels fall off, put em back on and run it some more. I bleed blue. If I'm forced to buy another truck in the next 10 years it will be a 06 Duramax and thats all I have to say about that.

 

This is some good info from people who obviously know what they're talking about.

A good piece of insurance for any 6.0 is an aux coolant filtration system. Good kits run around $150, and can be installed by anyone with enough skills to change brakes. Just do a good VC9 coolant systems flush first!

 

A good piece of insurance for any 6.0 is an aux coolant filtration system. Good kits run around $150, and can be installed by anyone with enough skills to change brakes. Just do a good VC9 coolant systems flush first!

A friend is running this kit on his PSD:

http://www.dieselsite.com/2003-200760lcoolantfiltrationsystem-preservethelifeofyourwaterpump.aspx

 

Yes they can be made reliable, but that's an extra $4500 on top of the cost of the truck. Also my service manager owns one and he said that they are 250k motors, where cummins are 500k motors (dont know if there is any truth to this, this claim has a title, but I just don't know what it is called).

I just don't think its right that you have to spend that much money to make it reliable, ya know?

 

Yeah but the dodge is a 150k truck

 

Go stroke your Cummins in a different thread. This one is about the 6.0L. :flipoff2:

 

Makes now or when your 2002 was new? You know like the 6spd manual in my '02 Ford PSD.

Jack

I actually like the 7.3, and I would own one if they weren't so proud of em. They just aren't that easy to make power out of. The only one I drove was my managers and his seemed pretty sluggish, when compared to mine stock to stock (but his does have 300k+ miles). And I use mine primarily as a daily driver. I will say it was quicker than my grandfathers 90k mile automatic 12v.....that thing is painfully slow stock!

I forgot about the 6.0 coming with the 6 speed, but you still have the 6.0 in front of it. :laughing: when I was on the search for a new rig I never even saw a manual tranny diesel Ford ever for sale in my area!

I am curious to see how the new 6.7 will hold up though. Not that I would ever be able to afford one . I probably won't ever buy a newer diesel as all the emission crap makes them all garbage.

Oh and I bought a cummins, unfortunately it came in a dodge

 

Makes now or when your 2002 was new? You know like the 6spd manual in my '02 Ford PSD.

Jack

 

I've been working on my brother-in-law's '05 F350 and we've installed the Bulletproof oil cooler and EGR cooler. Once it's done I'll post a full writeup.

 

I installed one for a customer, very high quality parts. Dropped oil temp from 225 to 190 on a 100 degree day :smokin:

 

I love my 04 stuperduty. I have done all the things mentioned, and i am very happy with it over all. One day I'd like to find an 05+ coil sprung front end, but I'm not in a real hurry.

I too don't get the hate. You buy a dodge or a 7.3 you will most likely be buying a tranny for it down the road. That's gonna cost more than to make a 6.0 very reliable.

 

In short... NO. the 6.0 is a boat anchor. if you want reliability, stay away from them.

 

I have two close friends who have 6ls. They are more comfortable, better turning radius than my 03. Both have been fixed for significant problems under warranty and luckily for them they both know service managers at Ford dealerships. Both have replaced parts on the engine and out on programmers and have had 0 problems since. Both are around 100,000 miles now.

On the other hand my 03 7.3l with the 6 speed has 265,000 miles on it. It is slower and not as comfy, but in 265k I have replaced the rear axle because the previous owner did not change the oil, and put a bigger turbo on it because I wanted to. As far as I know it has the original clutch, I know it has at least 130,000 miles on it since I bought it. The only other issue I have had was rotors until I put slotted cryo'd rotors on it 60,000 miles ago. But then with my hauler hooked up and the Jeep in it I'm pushing 24,000 lbs gross.

I'd buy a 6l truck, as long as I had the money to upgrade, and I knew it was not abuse by the previous owner or a dealership. And I had the time to remove the illegal parts since smog checks are her and becoming more common everywhere.

For now I'll just keep my old clunker. I can put a good rebuilt engine in this truck for less than $5k.

Now if I had lots of money the new diesels look really nice......

 

I have a 03 6.0 and its a great truck! I have replaced the crap egr to sinister egr delete. I purchased a SCT programer with custom tunes from Jody at DP Tunner. It opend up so much performance that the truck has to offer of of stock injectors. Also have air intake 4" silverline Exh. All my friends that are 7.3 guys get in my truck and brag about the smooth ride and power! hope it helps man!

 

Own an early 05 (Dec 04) with the 6.0l, 5-sp, auto, 4x4, cabnchassis, bought 2.5 yrs ago with 112k miles. I have taken care of a lot of the issues with operating the 6l. EGR delete, cat delete, coolant by-pass filter, SCT tunes (egr delete requires SCT to remove the CEL for EGR valve), and oil by-pass micro filter (FS2500).

Injectors on the 6l are powered by the oil pressure and controlled by the computer. The 6l requires proper maintenance especially with the oil. The by-pass filters to 2 microns whereas the stock filter is 15 or so. The by-pass is like that of the coolant on the low pressure side.
Ford has come out with a better internal oil cooler and I had one installed when my egr cooler went by-by. The STC was also upgraded at the same time.

Recently, I have injector issues. Have 138k on it. Basic use of the truck is tow my TJ on a 18' flat trailer. Found out due to cabnchassis, the rear fuel tank is steel and coated. The coating is failing and caused issues with the pump, filter and the banjo bolts on the heads. 6.4l banjo bolts is considered an upgrade. Got them but haven't installed them. Replaced 2 injectors on pass bank. Drained all fuel rails and cleaned them out with a flow cleaner. No matter if you replace 1 injector, the cost is the same per bank usually $200 each bank. Injectors, stock rebuilts, run $300 or so range. Had the tank recoated and she's back running.

Current issue is front end, tie rods, unit hub bearings, track bar ball joint (yah on the axle mount), and axle joints. Just basic maintenace, yah, but them are heavy crap compared to the TJ axle!

I would buy another 05-08 6l, but would probably stay away from the 6.4s.

 

One thing you forgot to mention about the 6.0s vs the 7.3s is the fact that the 6.0 comes with a 5 speed TorqueShift transmission which is a very large improvement over the 4 speed that came behind the 7.3.

 

Why not just get the 6.0 and get a GOOD extended warranty? I have an 06 6.0L I have almost 50k on it, and will be getting the extended warranty in a few weeks to cover well past 100k. THEN, I will get another one. Once the parts go out, I will talkt o the repair facilities and bring up the idea of getting the bulletproof setup as well as ARP head Studs.

I also know people are going to say they can't have any down time on their trucks. They need them for work, which I totally understand. I am just saying that I can do without it for a few weeks if necessary.

Dima

 

Why not just get the 6.0 and get a GOOD extended warranty?

Dima

There is no extended warranty that I'm aware of that will cover anything but the engine. You will find a hard time getting extended warranties that cover diesels at all, and the ones that do only cover the "engine." Their definition of engine is anything contained between the heads and oil pan. The one I looked at specifically excluded the heads, turbo, EGR, emissions eqiupment, cooling system, etc. Pretty much anything that would fail on a 6.0 is excluded unless it grenades the rotating assembly.

 

Why not just get a V10?

I've had mine for 160k so far and everything is original INCLUDING the serpentine belt!

I've done a few performance upgrades because I wanted to such as headers, cat delete, K&N filter, but nothing that had to be done. My cousin owns a 7.3 the same year as mine (2001) and he has a list a mile long of shit he's had to do to his truck to keep it on the road, the most noteable of which being a VERY expensive injector pump :shaking:

The expense to own and maintain a Diesel engine far outweighs the benefits to me. I tow anything and everything I have ever needed or wanted to and average around 10-12 mpg while doing it. You guys can keep the noisy, expensive Diesels.

/hijack over

 

Why not just get a V10?

I've had mine for 160k so far and everything is original INCLUDING the serpentine belt!

I've done a few performance upgrades because I wanted to such as headers, cat delete, K&N filter, but nothing that had to be done. My cousin owns a 7.3 the same year as mine (2001) and he has a list a mile long of shit he's had to do to his truck to keep it on the road, the most noteable of which being a VERY expensive injector pump :shaking:

Say what?

Do you mean the fuel pump, the injectors or the High Pressure Oil Pump? The injectors are expensive, I need new ones on mine at 265k and it's gonna be $2K.

 

Specs from a 2001 V10 Triton:
310 HP at 4,250 rpm
425 TQ at 3,250 rpm

Specs from a 2003 6.0 PSD:
325 HP at 3,500 rpm
550 TQ at 2,000 rpm

The TQ bumped up to 560 and eventually ended at 570

Yes, I think the V10 is an option.......but how does the MPGs compared? Plus, look at the low rpm grunt of the torque, compared to the V10 higher rpm

I would say if you want to spend the time and money to fix the 6.0L PSD, do it.....good motor once the bugs are worked out

 

The mpg on my stock engine sucked plain and simple. It would get 9-10 all the time loaded or unloaded :shaking:

I did all the mods at the same time so I am not sure which ones really helped but after the headers, cat removal and 3" exaust, k&n setup I went to getting 15-16 mpg unloaded and around 10 if I am loaded extremely heavy. I have a 30 foot flybridge cruiser that weighs in at 12,000 pounds and we averaged 10-12 going over to South Carolina and back from here.

edit* one thing that helps the V10 is the factory gear ratio on my truck is 4.30 where the Diesel's had 3.73. It lets the engine get revved up quicker from a dead stop and get the torque worked up.

edit 2 also, a simple truth about the guys claiming 22 - 25 mpg towing is that they are NOT getting that :shaking:. I work with a guy that is one of these fanatics. He tells story's of him towing "blah blab" over the mountain and gettin 25mpg all the way but the thing is I have driven his truck pulling my boat and I averaged around 15.7 - 16.3. And yes it is the famed 12V Cummins. I'm not saying that is bad mile per gallon average but is nowhere NEAR what he claims in his far fetched story's.

 

I think the main issue with the 6.0L problems are the poor design of not enough head bolts......which causes the 6-leaker saying, because the head gasket lets loose

Upgrade it with some APR head studs, replace it with an aftermarket EGR and Oil Cooler

An oil cooler upgrade can cost $1,500+ and an aftermarket EGR can be around $500, not to mention possibly having to pull the cab off the truck just to replace the head gasket and install some ARP head studs

 

Here is some fantastic info on 6.0L PSD motors:

2003-2004:
http://dan.prxy.org/Truck/6L_bible_html/html/TOC.html


2005+:
http://dan.prxy.org/Truck/6L_bible_html/05_update/html/05_Update_TOC.html