Yager - E450 Ambulance Tow RiV

[BassnTruck]

Originally Posted by angryblack

There is a guy in the bronx that is doing the swap now.Im trying to hold out for the finished product since my E150 needs an engine and i dont wanna build a stroker..He is taking his sweet time but last i heard the 6bt requires a new custom exhaust manifold to fit in the doghouse.

I measured my van and it seems the 6bt will fit. Will be tight to the dog house on the rear and would want to run electric fans on the front. I measured using my 24v. Biggest issues I see is like above. Even though the block and head is a lot narrower then then v8 the intake on the Cummins sticks out real wide but will fit as will the stock exhaust manifold just minus the turbo. I do not think the turbo will clear sitting in the center where it is stock. If you could put it on the front and relocate the stock battery then it might fit. Or you could just locate the turbo remotely. No need or less need for a large inter cooler depending on how far back you have it. Could cram a larger or twins if you wanted.

[yager]

No batteries up front on the van, both mid mounted on the ambo body.

Here are some web pics (not mine) showing the dog house tunnel area and size available. The passage is full width all the way to the front.

Also is a pic of an engine with the turbo sorta rolled under the exhaust.. I think something like that and a suitable intake should help it all fit..

[gavan]

Those are low mount rear manifolds, I am sure they would fit just fine. They will put the turbo is just about the same place as the ridiculously huge 6.0 head.

Same manifold this guy used



03-07 manifolds dump in the correct place, but they have round ports and will not flow correctly with your 12v head. The proper industrial manifold should not be hard to find.

You might want to look into turbos before you get too far into swapping motors, if you decide to upgrade to the 341 or HY35W now is the time It is going to be 10x worse to do it later, exhaust, intake, everything will be a pain. WH1Cs can be a little laggy, but that might not be a huge issue for you, you will be putting the motor under load all the time pulling that box around.

[BassnTruck]

For the pan to clean the cross member. The height of the 6bt is going to eat all that room where the intake and turbo is. So that turbo option is out. The Cummins is a tall SOB but it will clear by a hair IIRC.

Edit:

With the turbo in the above pic your plastic dog house will not last long. And that is the 80s, early 90s gen. Even with some insulation and a radiant shield I think it will just be to close to that 1300deg turbo a glowing. Not even sure a stand alone heat shield around the turbo or wrapping the turbo would work. It might but man you passengers feet will be nice and warm.

[87manche]

Originally Posted by BassnTruck

For the pan to clean the cross member. The height of the 6bt is going to eat all that room where the intake and turbo is. So that turbo option is out. The Cummins is a tall SOB but it will clear by a hair IIRC.

Edit:

With the turbo in the above pic your plastic dog house will not last long. Even with some insulation and a radiant shield I think it will just be to close to that 1300deg turbo a glowing. Not even sure a stand alone heat shield around the turbo or wrapping the turbo would work. It might but man you passengers feet will be nice and warm.

what if he tosses the 2" body lift on it? It might be just enough.

I would agree that the turbo heat is probably going to suck right next to the pasenger side of the doghouse, but wouldn't ceramic coating it and insulating it keep all thta heat inside?

[BassnTruck]

Originally Posted by 87manche

what if he tosses the 2" body lift on it? It might be just enough.

I would agree that the turbo heat is probably going to suck right next to the pasenger side of the doghouse, but wouldn't ceramic coating it and insulating it keep all thta heat inside?

The height is not the issue in fitting the motor. And the body lift really is not needed. I do not see how that would help with the turbo. I had my Ram and E350 sitting next to each other measuring things. Just do not know where my notes went but getting it in there was not the issue. I have a 4bt also and was debating on putting the 4bt in or stealing the 6bt out of my Ram. I recall there being more room width wise at the front of the engine compartment. So if you could find or make a front mount turbo it might work. But I really like the idea of a rear mount like some of the retrofit gasser guys do.

[gavan]

Originally Posted by BassnTruck

With the turbo in the above pic your plastic dog house will not last long. And that is the 80s, early 90s gen. Even with some insulation and a radiant shield I think it will just be to close to that 1300deg turbo a glowing. Not even sure a stand alone heat shield around the turbo or wrapping the turbo would work. It might but man you passengers feet will be nice and warm.

I dont know what van you are looking at, but the 6.0 van doghouse is made from some heavy composites, and has some very thick heat insulation. The up pipes run very close to it, and the downpipe runs straight from the turbo, it comes very close to it as well. A small heat shield is on the stock 6.0 downpipe, keeping that would be more than enough to negate any heat issues at the doghouse. If you can rest your hand on the dog house with the stock 6.0 and its downpipe running about an inch from it, you can get around a Cummins turbocharger.

6.0s run very hot, and the motor is just about in the passenger compartment. The narrow width of the Cummins will promote airflow and provide a huge heat benefit over the 6.0 to begin with. The turbo will be kind of close to the doghouse, but the stock turbo is VERY CLOSE to the top of the dog house, and the dash does not usually burn up.

Ford has not changed much of the doghouse since '75. I would not be surprised if an 80s doghouse fit a 00s van. The clearances should be about the same, probably a little better, or bigger, in the new chassis.

[gavan]

Originally Posted by BassnTruck

So if you could find or make a front mount turbo it might work.
No room height wise if you flip the manifold, no room for intake boots if you low mount it. You would need another ~9 inches at least to high mount it up front, and the hood just would not close. Not to mention it would start getting in the way of the hood opening, the washer bottle, lots of other stuff.
But I really like the idea of a rear mount like some of the retrofit gasser guys do.
You have a very hard time getting the heat and drive pressure back to a remote mount turbo in a diesel application. Cars can usually fudge it because they are running low boost, usually under 10 PSI. With an ideal 1:1 drive pressure, you have the exhaust pipes pressurized to 10 PSI, not a huge deal. That is easy to seal in and deal with. Diesels run 25-35 PSI, and drive pressure can be up in the 50 PSI range. There are a lot of potential issues with designing an exhaust to deal with 50 PSI, especially when it is hot and full of soot like a diesel exhaust usually is.

Besides that, there is very limited room under the ambulance chassis. The outside is taken up by compartments, the middle has the driveshaft take up a lot of room, the back is a 55 gallon fuel tank. There is already an air tank mounter under there and that is tight.

I think your intake issues, if any pop up in the conversion, can be taken care of by making your own intake like this guy. Chrome plating is optional, but full of awesome. Because you know everyone will be able to see it when you pop the van "hood"...

[yager]

Man with all that heat im looking at, im not sure how most dodges just don't spontaneously combust, maybe thats why they are always driving so fast, to keep em cool

The dog house and a plastic fiberglass type material, with dense matting and a thick foil lining on the side facing the motor. The stock 6.0 down pipe is literally almost touching it.. I'm not worried... Seriously, these are not insurmountable problems.. i was thinking of an alum. heat shield riveted to the dog house and wrapping the down pipe. Maybe some shields near the heater box area..

Gavan - your right seeing it from that position in that van that's not the one I thought it was.. If there is one that fits for me... I will find it

Though that rearward position would work w/ a tight 90 bend pointing down... (and a 2" BL changes things also)

[gavan]

Originally Posted by yager

Man with all that heat im looking at, im not sure how most dodges just don't spontaneously combust, maybe thats why they are always driving so fast, to keep em cool

The dog house and a plastic fiberglass type material, with dense matting and a thick foil lining on the side facing the motor. The stock 6.0 down pipe is literally almost touching it.. I'm not worried... Seriously, these are not insurmountable problems.. i was thinking of an alum. heat shield riveted to the dog house and wrapping the down pipe. Maybe some shields near the heater box area..

Gavan - your right seeing it from that position in that van that's not the one I thought it was.. If there is one that fits for me... I will find it

Though that rearward position would work w/ a tight 90 bend pointing down... (and a 2" BL changes things also)

My memory must be going bad. I thought those doghouses had steel in there somewhere, they are heavy enough! With the downpipe almost touching it, and the exhaust manifolds almost touching it on both sides, one little turbo will not self combust the van.

I do not see why that manifold will not work. You should have plenty of room over there. You could offset it driver a couple inches if you needed too, but I do not see a big deal with it. It should be nice and out of the way of everything, it is sitting right around where the stock head would be, so plenty of room.

You can take the stock turbo apart, clock it, and put it back together to run the WH1C "upside down" from the stock position. As long as the oil comes in from the top, and leaves through the bottom, it really does not matter.

My HY35W is all sorts of clocked and has no issues.

From that image of the turbo in the van it looks like a short radius 90 would run from the back of that turbo with no issues.

Another think to keep in mind is the "cobra head" exhaust elbow that came on the 8.3 CTAs. That is a really good way to turn the exhaust down in a tight area, and if it flows enough for the 8.3, your 5.9 will be more than fine. Some times they are hard to find. Here is a thread about them.

http://www.4btswaps.com/forum/showth...haust-downpipe

They are out there on 8.3s, but they are also available new if you need to.

[yager]

Dang, lets cross that 'issue' off the list... I was so wanting to make a burrito warmer over there for my wife to cook my food while I pedal down on the hills !!!

[pic_jon]

Originally Posted by yager

Dang, lets cross that 'issue' off the list... I was so wanting to make a burrito warmer over there for my wife to cook my food while I pedal down on the hills !!!

No love for Bacon???

[BassnTruck]

Well you might be right on the dog house but mine gets warm and it is only a 5.4. Maybe the 6.0s have a different one? Maybe they do not I have no comparison and do not feel like calling up Ford to see if they have different part numbers. I just really do not like hot things next plastic. Your ideas may work but like I said I only took a tape measure to them and have not actually put one in. I do know if I were to do that the body would be coming off. Which might be a lot easier for you since the small cab is not permanently connect to your box.

I am still kicking the idea around but I need to finish some other projects first. I am leaning to the 4bt route.

[BassnTruck]

Originally Posted by gavan

Those are low mount rear manifolds, I am sure they would fit just fine. They will put the turbo is just about the same place as the ridiculously huge 6.0 head.

Same manifold this guy used




03-07 manifolds dump in the correct place, but they have round ports and will not flow correctly with your 12v head. The proper industrial manifold should not be hard to find.

You might want to look into turbos before you get too far into swapping motors, if you decide to upgrade to the 341 or HY35W now is the time It is going to be 10x worse to do it later, exhaust, intake, everything will be a pain. WH1Cs can be a little laggy, but that might not be a huge issue for you, you will be putting the motor under load all the time pulling that box around.

Went out and took a pic of the 06 in a similar angle. I know for a fact the mount totally different as I used to have an 89. And after looking at the 2 I will say with 99% that a 92 or older doghouse will not fit a 94+.

Image added under yours for comparison.

[gavan]

Thanks for the picture, it has been a LONG time since I have taken off the doghouse of a gas van. I have taken off a bunch of diesel doghouses, and the last thing you would ever have to worry about is melting one... I do not remember if the gas ones are different. Diesel ones get warm, but thats about it, even running them hard in 100 degree weather. I am pretty sure one of our old 95 trucks had an older 90 doghouse in it, but that was 10+ years ago. It could well have been the console of the 90 on the doghouse of the 95.

[BassnTruck]

The photo makes it look like there is a lot more room under the dog house then there really is. The wall of the dog house might come back off that fuel line running side to side on the back of the motor 3". If you wanted to hack up the dog house you could glass it out quite a bit but the motor will be just about between the front of the seats and lose you cup holders. lol

[yager]

Originally Posted by yager

First (important stuff) the 6bt should fit. Based on some web dimensions I found.

Attachment 631385

Attachment 631386

33.5" Long, 21" wide 32.6" tall not sure how accurate that is though..

I have 32" at the dog house opening, that carries through to the front including along the heater box. I measured 35" from the rear face of engine to radiator is 35" If needed, looks to be ~3" room to slide the drive line back before the trans vent hits the floor. Also the radiator and cooler connections look doable..

Looks like I need to find a decent 6bt

You can see where the down pipe is. The dog house just clears that by maybe ~1" (or less) That is the working room under the dog house...


And just to be clear.... This will happen... We solved the down pipe issue in like 30 seconds... The dog house will not slow this train down !!!!

[87manche]

Originally Posted by yager

And just to be clear.... This will happen... We solved the down pipe issue in like 30 seconds... The dog house will not slow this train down !!!!

fuck yeah!

[BassnTruck]

Originally Posted by yager

After looking at that angle the V8 doghouse might be the same. Get a photo of it and measure it and I will do one of mine and then we can be sure for any future readers.

[pic_jon]

I found a center drop manifold for sale on another forum. Trying to get pics.

Here's what the add says:


industrial center drop manifold

"Got this with a rebuilt engine I picked up, not sure how much use it has seem but there aren't any cracks. Doesn't look like it has been superheated or anything. $120 plus shipping

I'll take offers from that price. "

[pic_jon]

Wow that was quick... Here's the pic though, I'm not sure if this is even the least bit helpful lol

[gavan]

That is a center dump, we were looking at rear dumps, but it might work. It will be one of those "stab it in and see what fits" type deals. The center dump is not _that_ different than what he has now, it just puts the turbo a little further out and clocked a little more down. The rear pump manifolds actually lower the position of the turbo as well, which will put it closer to the bulge in the floorpan where the 6.0 heads were.

Might work, though...

[yager]

I'm gonna start a new thread just on the diesel swap and integration stuff..

Diesel swap thread: VRAY 2006 E450 - Ambulance Cummins Diesel Swap


Then keep this thread for the RV upfitting stuff..

[tim_zr2]

Let me know if you need any engine measurements with that industrial manifold installed. It can be flipped upside down as well...


*Edit, I'll post in the other thread.

[yager]

Lets get this thread back on track with the RV conversion stuff... I pulled out a ton of stuff from the RV today. The side seat, and the counter area and overhead. I'm sure many would have just used it the way it was and called it good, but I see bigger better things happening.. I was actually disappointed with how the whole thing was assembled. Only a handful of screws held the whole overhead part in.. Pulled a ton of wires out also...






Lots of random thoughts in my head about how to best do the floor plan.. I'm 100% sure I want a bath/shower area. John will likely be a cartridge type, though I've seen some nice European style that are permanent mounted but still with a small removable cassette. Anyway, just not sure on the layout..

I'm sure I want a partial divider wall behind the driver seat extending ~1/2 way. A small sliding wall will pull out to block off the front area when camping. I hate the noise while driving and hate the cold/heat from the front area of the van.

The bed area will be a full size bed, but I'm curretnly stuck on where to put it. The options i have come up with are sideways across the back, partially notching on the right/pass side rear tall outside cabinet. 2nd option is as a sofa/bad combo sorta where the sitting bench was originally. I'm leaving towards at the rear. As this plays well into making a kicthen area in front of that.

I really need to work on my sketch up drawings..