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VRAY 2006 E450 - Ambulance Cummins Diesel Swap

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#1 · (Edited)
VRAY 2006 E450 - Ambulance Cummins Diesel Swap

This is a split off of my initial YAger RV build up thread. This one will focus on the 5.9 cummins diesel engine swap.

The other thread will stay focused on the 'RV' aspects including conversion, upfitting, wiring, insulation and interior stuff.

E450 Ambulance VRAY (YAger RV)


While the other thread may become less awesome, I think this one will have a lot of traffic from the discussion and general interest as 'we' work through the swap and all the issues that will arise.

So brief overview on how things ended up here:

Decided to upgrade current 2004 1ton Chevy van to something with more room for camping, longer more comfortable, trips. Evaluated several options, MDT trucks, expoditer rigs, step vans, box trucks, cab overs etc.. Kept being steering into an ambulance by Gavan. He is an EMT and essentially lives in one, and knows a lot about them good and bad.. I resisted at first, but eventually the draw was to much and I started looking specifically for a 'bus'.

Located many, all over the US, and all over the price scale. Called on several local, but was never able to get folks to return calls or commit to times etc.. Full craigslist search one day showed a rig outside Dallas, Tx. This gem was a 2006 E450 14' box more/less standard issue rig. It had the dreaded 6.0 Powerstroke diesel but with only 102k on it. I did my homework understood the issues with them and what would be expected and required to make it a good engine etc.. I figured even if the motor needed to be fully rebuilt or swapped out it would still be a good project. The low mileage and being from Texas was also key factors. The frame still has a shine to it!!

So I called Gavan how happens to live in Houston and who also talked me into getting a damn ambulance and asked if he could 'help' out with a possible acquisition. He agreed it was a great idea and I bought it sight unseen. I saw enough pics to know the interior had been picked over and the outside lights removed etc.. But it was mostly intact and more/less in good overall mechanical condition, minus some small issues, like broken A/C, cruddy interior etc..

Gavan hauled it back to his house which in hind sight turned out to be a great decision. After he got it, he started sizing it up and giving it a once over. I had some lights shipped down and after he wired them in, started actually driving it.. I had already may plans to fly down to drive it back home to NC, when I got a call 2 day prior saying the dreaded EGR cooler had let loose and it was blowing coolant out the exhaust. Oh no !

I have to give props to Rudy's Diesel Rudy's Diesel Performance located in Durham, NC I had already purchased a full 'fix kit' from them to fix and correct all the possible issues with the motor, including the EGR delete. I didn't have the van so i didn't take anything home with me... so I called em up and said I need to grab some of the kit, they sent me home with the parts, gaskets I might need during the repair process.

I flew to Tx now on a repair mission and IF we got it fixed and running ok, drive it 1200 miles back home... Both of us are clearly in the enough knowledge to be dangerous category, but neither had ever touched a 6.0 in a van no less.. So with a basic understanding of our goal we thrashed for 16 hours Friday and 4 more on Saturday. We were joined my Pic_John friday evening who happened to have clean hands and his own tool supply.. Making up for Gavan's tool deficiency at just the right time... We stopped shortly after doing the repair and I flopped the turbo back on the motor and we bolted it down.. The next day we finished reassembly, and it fired up... Ran for 30 seconds, loped and died... WTF !! No restart... We had some issue with loosing fuel line prime after the filter changes, but we fixed that with a rag and air hose in the take trick.. Fired back up ran great...

We drove around Houston gathering supplies for my return trip and seeing how well it ran and drove.. My comfort level was just high enough for me to make the trip.. I figured with fresh coolant, synthetic oil, new filters and a running rig, what could happen ??? Goal was to drive at least 1/2 way home, where I had a few offers to retrieve me if I made it that far... I logged 16 hours driving Sunday before I stopped in Spartenburg, SC I didn't shut the truck down until I was 14 hours in. I let it run while pumping and the few quick pit stops for a sub or fuel. It was running fine but was loosing coolant out the overfill tank, it was being pushed out not leaking..

Made it home, while researching 6.0 repairs, parts, new heads, and the long list of possible and/or inevitable problems to expect (again) the mention of a cummins swap came up... What ?? Could it happen? Wow that would be so cool... Hell I'd instantly be cool.. (wait i am cool !!!) Then reality set in and the usual thought about it just not fitting in there came up.. I literally ran outside pulled the dog house and measured it up.. It would be a tight fit but hell so is the current engine. It takes up almost every square inch or usable space and then some...

I started researching transmission adapter I really like the 5 speed on the drive home, worked great with the 6.0L... But man !!! The adapter, flex plate, and trans controller alone was almost what I paid for the whole bus !! About that time Gavan said he had a lead on a cummins motor and possibly an entire truck... I continued to follow up on some leads and investigate trans options etc.. as well as see what would be needed to make a 47RH hold up... Very doable with some proper parts... AND with this setup I'd get a t-case.... That puts me closer to the 4wd RV that I had simply put off as 'not happening now' thoughts...
 
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#2 · (Edited)
So here we are..... Working out all the details on how to stuff a cummins motor in the VRAY !!!!

We started some great discussion in the other thread but clearly was side tracking the equally great 'RV' upfit discussions with cummins specific stuff...

I'll cut/paste some of the other pics and discussions from over there..

Hell if a mod could move stuff from the last few days over here that would be awesome also !?!?!?
 
#3 ·
In with popcorn on this one..Since im thinking of the swap for my E150..Its alredy getting a dually conversion with shaved 22.5s..

If you need a hand wrenching in jan. let me know as i will be down your way..
 
#4 · (Edited)
A short recap on previous discussions.

It will fit, but length will be an issue, especially with trying to run stock mechanical fan.
Maintaining Dog House clearance will be key.
Several possibly exhaust manifold exist to help position turbo in an ideal location and orientation.
Cobra head exhaust outlet would solve ALL exhaust down tube issues.

Some pics...

Current 6.0l engine room under dog house...
Vehicle Car Auto part Automotive exterior



cobra outlet
Footwear Auto part Shoe


Older ford econoline diesel swap (w/ manual trans) clearly shows workable engine placement and turbo position.
Vehicle Motor vehicle Auto part Car Engine
 
#70 ·
A short recap on previous discussions.

It will fit, but length will be an issue, especially with trying to run stock mechanical fan.
Maintaining Dog House clearance will be key.
Several possibly exhaust manifold exist to help position turbo in an ideal location and orientation.
Cobra head exhaust outlet would solve ALL exhaust down tube issues.

Some pics...

Current 6.0l engine room under dog house...
View attachment 632425


cobra outlet
View attachment 632426

Older ford econoline diesel swap (w/ manual trans) clearly shows workable engine placement and turbo position.
View attachment 632427
Why not cut the floor pan and make your own dog house?
 
#8 ·
As someone nameless pointed out..... Hmmm interesting.... Not saying....

Text Font Technology Screenshot Games


just saying.....
 
#11 ·
I think this manifold setup might work best for your app. The industrial 12v manifold that I posted in your other thread, keeps the turbo centered...
This is a 2pc 24v manifold, but it will bolt right up to the 12v, as shown.

I can pull measurements if you need me to.
 

Attachments

#12 ·
That 24v manifold will physically bolt up to the 12v head, but it has round ports and will not work correctly with the 12v head. You just can not port the exhaust outlets enough for the round manifold ports without cracking the head. I believe that the industrial 12v low rear rump is very similar. Measurements should be close.

Seeing talented CAD/proE/whatever drawings remind me how much time I could have saved on my various projects through the years. Oh well. I usually get it close...:flipoff2:
 
#14 ·
So you bought the fix kit already? If you threw down the greenback's already, seems better to just fix/build the 6.0 and rock it like that. Find a 4wd superduty trans/tcase and bolt that in for your 4wd.
I hate the 6.0 just as much as the next guy, but its... already there :D
It sounds like a "fixed" 6.0 is fairly badass and can take some serious fuel
 
#16 ·
Not to make the swap any harder but is there a readily available stainless flange for the 6bt?I think the exhuast manfold issue has been worked out but just in case its nothing that a flange and some weldels/ stainless tube cant fix.:D

I also dont think that the turbo whine will be an issue, i drove my clapped out 351w back from durham with a huge crack in the pass manifold and never heard it untill i rolled the window down..The doghouses are really well insulated..
 
#17 ·
are those "CAD" drawings of an ISB motor or just pictures?

If they are usable in Solid Works, would love to have copies of them, thanks

very interested in seeing what you come up with here, Mike, an ISB is a big bitch for a van. You may want to consider a shallow oil pan or a dry sump of some kind to get you some clearance on the the top of the motor and at the front diff..
 
#18 ·
Meeting the Delaware gang in Fredricksburgh, Va Sunday high noon to get the truck... Need to rustle up a set of rollers if i can, else she will be riding low on the deck for the ride home..

Rudy's Diesel was super about taking the unused kit part back. I had simply planned to dump em on craigslists. So I'm only out the EGR delete and gaskets... I was happy to loose a nominal restocking fee, saves me the trouble of dealing with Craigslist etc..
 
#20 ·
New motor is now home :D
Had to take the rest of the truck but oh well.... Few pics after we transfered the truck. Runs great no breaks but low range kept it under control w/ the ebrake.. Got it home, unloaded and had to pull door panels to get elec. windows closed up... Good to go !!

As soon as I was backing it off the trailer, I knew I had made the right decision.. I really fell so much better about the direction of the project. I think having this engine in there will make it about as reliable as possible... Lots of work to do....


Arron and Wayne...
Land vehicle Vehicle Car Transport Bumper


Loaded up...
Land vehicle Vehicle Car Motor vehicle Transport


New home... Ready to tear it down...
Land vehicle Vehicle Car Tire Automotive tire


Vehicle Engine Auto part Car Fuel line
 
#26 ·
Fired the motor up one last time to breath some fresh exhaust in.... Then started tearing the dodge down.... Got some front end stuff off and some hoses..

Engine Auto part Vehicle Car Automotive engine part





Oh and I was wrong on the mileage on the truck.... :flipoff2:

Vehicle Auto part Speedometer Car Gauge
 
#31 ·
The ambo box is 14' long, not sure how that would sit on the back of the dodge without reworking the frame.. The e450 cab/chassis frame is pretty damn stout.. Also its my opinion that the van chassis is much better. It's taller and more roomier than a truck cab. I like the higher seating position. And with the box I think the cab has better overall aerodynamics vs what a truck cab would.

I'm pretty damn happy with the direction I'm going... Usually I start second guessing myself and start having doubts about things and I starting changing my mind on things... Not today.... Put your money away, this ones not for sale.
 
#34 ·
the Truck chassis will be forsale soon.. It would make a great start to your RV project.
 
#35 ·
Honestly, 2nd gen Dodge chassis really are not all that much to write home about. Plus it is a 94 chassis, albeit with less miles, but the ambulance is a 2006 chassis with a lot less years on it. Dodge fronts are kinda squirely, IMHO. You need to do a lot of "stuff" to them to make them nice, 03+ tie rod ends, steering box braces, free spin hub conversions, blah blah blah.

You could move the box over to a 3500 second gen cab/chassis easier with straight frame rails, but you gain a lot of length over the van cab. All in what you want, I guess. You can make a bigger/taller passthrough in a van cab than you can with a pickup cab.

Van chassis turn tighter just because of 1 foot+ less wheelbase. a 2006 E450 has disc brakes in the rear, the 1994 has drums. I do not know what a cab/chassis 3500 would have had, but that is not really the discussion.

Ujoint offroad has a very nice conversion kit to put a Superduty D60 under a van chassis, I would rather slap that kit under the truck than swap ambulance boxes or make some crazy E450/2500 hybrid chassis.

All in what you want, I guess...
 
#38 ·
The guy who thought the earth was round was laughed at in the beginning.

-- Ahhahahahah there's the dummy who things the earth is roooouund..... I bet he thinks he so smart with his math and stuff..... I'll just go back to my cave and pound rocks together and eat bugs.
 
#44 ·
The guy who thought the earth was round was laughed at in the beginning.
We're not laughing at you because you say the earth is round, we laugh because after starting on the "earth is a pyramid, "earth is cube," "earth is a cylinder," "earth is a polyhedron" - you've sold them all and started over... :laughing:
 
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