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Old 12-01-2011, 03:03 AM   #51 (permalink)
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Just chiming in with what was posted already; ATS stopped making the IDI turbos a few years ago. The only manufacturer I know of now is Banks. I tried asking questions about the Moose pump and other parts on that other site and was pretty much given the cold shoulder so I'm open to competition. I'm not a product ass kisser unless my ass has at least been looked at appreciatively first.

In all fairness to everyone else, I'd be the closest to you regarding being a candidate for the guinea pig role and have the beat up old IDI required for this. I don't work so I'll have lots of free time and my Dad is pretty independent with a full social schedule so I don't have to be on top of him unless I need to use his car. However, I do have a few caveats:

I'm on disability which means I'm close to constantly broke. This doesn't balance realistically with the opportunity for more disposable income that the rest of the guys could have access to. It will however keep expensive aspirations in check, maybe sometimes agonizingly so. Really, the only thing I can offer is that I'll be 70 miles north of you where the next closest is MT in Montana.

I will be living in my truck and have no access to other housing except Nickelsville and I don't own the tent required to live there. I don't want to buy one either. Basically this means if my truck is down for a few days in your driveway I'll need a ride to the closest gym so I could workout and shower, I'll need to plug in with an extension cord and garden hose and be able to use the interwebs. I also have a friendly indoor cat that I take for walks. The rest of the time I'm hiding in my home playing games(the reason for the interwebs) and taking a break from being social until I unwind.

I bought my truck for pretty much the same reason others did, cheap to buy and cheap to buy another MDT to replace it. However, the reason I asked you about your work is I want to get away from this cavitation issue and other than this issue I really liked what I read from others about these motors. However, I do want a newer, thicker block where cavitation isn't as much of an issue. If you want to work something out with me where I get that thicker walled block and you have my old IDI to play with, I'm open to that. Of course I have to get there first and it looks like I'll be coming across in Jan or Feb.

I do not have a toy or trailer to haul it. However, in comparison to others I do believe I'll be able to match and/or exceed their weights being I'll actually be full timing in mine with furnishings and stuff. I'm fully framing in the interior, insulating and walling it up.

If I'm living in a trailer or RV park it will have to run when parked there.

I know it's not the optimum situation being I don't have a bunch of cash to play with but I'm game to experiment within my means. We should be able to work out some sort of arrangement being it potentially means continued income for you afterward. I just want to be able to pull hills without dropping gears and I want a 13 speed someday. Cruise control would be nice too.

I'll take more engine compartment pics when I walk out to where it's parked today.
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Old 12-01-2011, 03:50 AM   #52 (permalink)
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Justin,

I am in the market for multiple things with the IDI. I would want a new injection pump, injectors, cam, studs, full gasket kit, headgaskets, and better turbo than my banks. New fuel pump if my carrier cant keep up.

The current issue with IDI performance parts is that you have moose or DPS. Moose seems iffy currently with the pump builder supply, and DPS has a crappy reputation(tho it seems to be improving).

So if you could come on the scene and offer quality parts, at a reasonable price, I think you could really find that you would get a ton of customers. .....For example your current turbo is an s362.....awesome charger, but pricey. So maybe a less expensive middle of the road turbo as an option for those that want to spend a little less.
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Old 12-01-2011, 04:08 AM   #53 (permalink)
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You just couldn't stay away! You got sucked back in!

Hey! That means there are SEVEN of us!

Do you have any pics or a thread about yours pennsylvaniaboy? I'll add it to my lazy little index on my thread if you do.
No build thread, but if I start a rebuild of the motor I will. Currently she is stock banks system, with some fresh paint.
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Old 12-01-2011, 05:01 AM   #54 (permalink)
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You mentioned complete engines. I'm looking at spending 3k on my 460 gas motor. This will get me 480hp and 530tq. I saw the dyno sheet of the exact motor I will have built. What would a complete motor cost? I'm assuming it would have less usable range as I will be able to wind mine up if need be.
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Old 12-01-2011, 05:10 AM   #55 (permalink)
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As mentioned the IDIs are essentially in 'older' bodied trucks, that in itself has you with a limited market just due to them wearing out. Along with motor parts maybe start offering or at least listing out other venders who sell parts needed to keep the entire truck on the road. I'm talking like door/window seals, carpet kits, crap that makes the truck not as bad to drive 10hours at a time or have better potential as a project truck.


My last point, I'm well into my cummins swap on my Ford van 'RV' ambo project. BUT in my evaluating possible vehicle choices I stayed away from the 'older' vans with IDI motors simply due low(er) performance. I wanted a reliable min 250hp/500tq. Turbo or not. Personally if those numbers were easily available it would have likely altered my course early on.

Lastly, In the van category the van cabs are essentially the same from 92/93? up to 2008. Which leaves a sweet spot in the 92-94s ? newer cab w/ older IDI.. This offers that motor but also ability to (easily) update interiors w/ later model stuff. Not sure if there are similar overlaps on the trucks.

Might be helpful to identify these points, might open up some options for someone planning out tow rig project.
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Old 12-01-2011, 07:10 AM   #56 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by hadfield4wd View Post
You mentioned complete engines. I'm looking at spending 3k on my 460 gas motor. This will get me 480hp and 530tq. I saw the dyno sheet of the exact motor I will have built. What would a complete motor cost? I'm assuming it would have less usable range as I will be able to wind mine up if need be.
Give me more specs on this 460. Its that a brand new zero mile engine for $3k? new pistons, decked, milled.. ect....? If so, I can't touch that price.

for 3k in bolt on/replacement parts... I can get an IDI into the 300rwhp/550rwtq range, and 2-3 times the mileage of that 460.

You are never going to get a 460 to out tow one of my IDI's, and certainly not even touch mileage.
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Old 12-01-2011, 07:41 AM   #57 (permalink)
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Would you guys be willing to do camshaft swaps? I'm trying to figure out the best way to get you guys an extra 75hp or so, for as cheap as I can.
Yes, if that's part of what I need to invest in to get a reliable and economical hp/tq boost.

Never done it, but I can get help from people who have to get them installed correctly.

If I have to choose 2 of easy, reliable, economical; I'd pick reliable and economical.
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Old 12-01-2011, 07:44 AM   #58 (permalink)
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Yes, if that's part of what I need to invest in to get a reliable and economical hp/tq boost.

Never done it, but I can get help from people who have to get them installed correctly.

If I have to choose 2 of easy, reliable, economical; I'd pick reliable and economical.
The swap is dead simple. about as easy as any engine possibly could. Also if I get this going, you can rest assured I will offer you any support you need during installation, just gimme a call.

If people are willing to swap cam's I can really cut down on having to jam alot more fuel and boost down its throat, which means more reliable for you guys, and cheaper as well. Because you can then use the cheaper u-haul rebuild parts.

edit:

Just bare with me on some of this stuff. I just got done spending the last 5-6 months designing and building a custom IDI to crank out 1000lbs of torque. I'm a little stuck in those ruts so to speak. That's why I started this thread, to see what people really want. I am getting some good info here guys. I think that there is enough interest that it would be worthwhile to get my yellow star and start dealing stuff. Lets keep this thread going with ideas until then. Probably be right after these upcoming holidays.

I really thing once I do a couple of jobs for some of you guys, word of mouth will do the rest. I am confident I can put smiles on your faces.
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Old 12-01-2011, 07:58 AM   #59 (permalink)
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Just bare with me on some of this stuff. I just got done spending the last 5-6 months designing and building a custom IDI to crank out 1000lbs of torque. I'm a little stuck in those ruts so to speak.

I really thing once I do a couple of jobs for some of you guys, word of mouth will do the rest. I am confident I can put smiles on your faces.
I respect that. I would rather deal with someone who has gone to 1,000hp and takes a step back to help me with my mild build, than to deal with someone who maxes out their abilities trying to do the same thing I'm doing.


At the end of the day, this is my Going to KOH rig.
If it is not reliable, I kill my week's vacation just trying to get all my shit home and potentially miss the greatest race of the year, including my responsibilities and commitment to the promoter and to the race on race day.
Getting there a bit quicker, less fuel, and easier going up hills is just icing on the cake.

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Old 12-01-2011, 07:59 AM   #60 (permalink)
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I would build new manifolds, do an x-over pipe across the front, and remote mount it on the passenger side.

Another idea, to utilize equal length, and twin scroll, would be to build an intake so I can directly mount the compressor to the intake manifold, build tubular exhaust manifolds with individual up pipes, up each side and into a twin scroll inlet housing.
All of this sounds expensive.

I think for the MDT market if you can do just the flanges/piping to mount a popular OEM turbo and the assorted things to make it not overboost the motor that would be the cheapest way.

if you can't figure it out, the UHaul crowd is a bunch of cheap asses. That's how we ended up with used uhaul trucks.
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Old 12-01-2011, 08:05 AM   #61 (permalink)
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All of this sounds expensive.

I think for the MDT market if you can do just the flanges/piping to mount a popular OEM turbo and the assorted things to make it not overboost the motor that would be the cheapest way.

if you can't figure it out, the UHaul crowd is a bunch of cheap asses. That's how we ended up with used uhaul trucks.
It really depends on what each persons definition of cheap is. There is a few people that seem willing to spend nothing. Those people will get just that.

Then there is the people that understand they need to spend a little, and this I can work with. This is probably the majority.

Then there is the few that want to go crazy. Well... crazy I can do as well.

The first option will be the easiest probably.

The second option wouldnt be bad either, because it would eliminate the need for any x-over pipes, and a charge pipe.

No matter what there is going to be custom fab involved on the hot side. There is no way around it, after that its just a matter of deciding where I want to mount the charger.

As for chargers... I already have a cheap, proven charger picked out for you guys.
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Old 12-01-2011, 09:45 AM   #62 (permalink)
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I just picked up an '88 CCLB 4x4 with a banks sidewinder for $1600. I'd be in for a better than stock pump and injectors. Maybe even a cam if the price is right.

Love IDI's, this is my 3rd one and they are the best bang for the buck. The main thing you have to consider (and looks like you have) is the owners of these trucks are usually a bunch of cheapasses, myself included. Props to you for working with these old trucks.
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Old 12-01-2011, 10:02 AM   #63 (permalink)
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Idi

I have a 92 F250 IDI 5 Spd. owned since new. It has pulled my stuff for almost 20 years reliably, comfortably and SLOWLY. Would be interested in options to improve performance and not sacrifice reliability or longevity. I am in the Puget Sound area and would like to talk about options when you are ready.
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Old 12-01-2011, 10:06 AM   #64 (permalink)
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Give me more specs on this 460. Its that a brand new zero mile engine for $3k? new pistons, decked, milled.. ect....? If so, I can't touch that price.
It's taking my long block. Tear it down. New bearings, rods, pistons, cam, heads, intake, coil, custom curved distributor and carb. Dyno tuned. This is not some guy building motors in his garage.

He has a custom "recipe" that works awesome for pulling trucks. He built the exact motor for his brothers truck. I saw the dyno sheet. 485/530. oN regular gas not even premium. It's not a high compression motor. He is getting 9-10mpg empty.

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for 3k in bolt on/replacement parts... I can get an IDI into the 300rwhp/550rwtq range,
But you're saying I'd need to come up with a running motor right?


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and 2-3 times the mileage of that 460.
That I doubt. I got 6-7 this last trip. And I had some issues which will be remedied. So I should get 7-8. Even at 6 3x the mileage is 18. I could believe 12, maybe. At 8 that would be 16 - 24. I'd have a hard time believing that.


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You are never going to get a 460 to out tow one of my IDI's, and certainly not even touch mileage.
I bet when I get mine built my 485/530 motor will pull just as good as your 300/500 motor. With it making torque from 1200 - 4000. Wider torque range. Albeit you will get better mileage but not 3x.

Don't get me wrong I'm not saying gassers are better engines for towing. It's just what I have and you stated you would provide full turnkey motors. As my body style truck came with the IDI as a option it wouldn't be too much of a pain to swap.

So your trying to sell your idea, sell it to me. Sell me on a turnkey motor to swap into '85 F350 gasser.
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Old 12-01-2011, 10:14 AM   #65 (permalink)
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I
That I doubt. I got 6-7 this last trip. And I had some issues which will be remedied. So I should get 7-8. Even at 6 3x the mileage is 18. I could believe 12, maybe. At 8 that would be 16 - 24. I'd have a hard time believing that.
Stock NA 7.3IDI I get 18 cruising at 60-65, so I can only see it get worse as well.

I keep looking at a turbo for mine, but I want to also keep the dead nuts reliability.
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Old 12-01-2011, 11:09 AM   #66 (permalink)
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The second option wouldnt be bad either, because it would eliminate the need for any x-over pipes, and a charge pipe.

This would be nice, but its not that hardof a mod if needed....kinda like doing headers on a gasser.
No matter what there is going to be custom fab involved on the hot side. There is no way around it, after that its just a matter of deciding where I want to mount the charger.

I would love to put it right where my banks is currently.
As for chargers... I already have a cheap, proven charger picked out for you guys.

Do tell!


I highlighted above, but I would love to know what charger this is!
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Old 12-01-2011, 11:19 AM   #67 (permalink)
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It really depends on what each persons definition of cheap is. There is a few people that seem willing to spend nothing. Those people will get just that.
Anytime I start seeing "custom manifolds" I think I'm going to drop 5-700 bucks in just manifolds.
THat puts it past my budget when you figure in the rest of it.

Now, this cam swap thing. I'd be willing to rock it if there were precise instructions, and I didn't have to take the motor out of the truck. I have a torque wrench and I know how to use it.

With a cam swap, we could get that extra 30-50 HP and some torque and still stay N/A? Or would that have to be paired with a turbo?

Like I said earlier, I'm willing to drop a grand on a 13 speed, and might eventually drop that much on a turbo setup, but I'm not dumping 3 into a truck that I have less than that in just for another 75HP and some torque. I have things with a higher payoff for that kind of money, like just swapping a complete much larger motor.
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Old 12-01-2011, 12:23 PM   #68 (permalink)
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somebody care to help the newb.

what is the difference between a dt444, dt446 ? IDI and the 7.3 powerstroke ?


anyhow, I have a excursion with the 7.3 powerstroke. 180k on the clock and I intend to keep it forever.

I recently put in a bombproof trans and have been thinking ahead to the day the motor will need to be rebuilt.

I would like to stay just south of the crazy zone on the rebuild but certainly have the budget to build a first class motor that makes big power, offers improved fuel milage and is rock solid reliable.

anybody recommend a builder ?



oh ya, runs 37" tires and geared to 4:30

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Old 12-01-2011, 12:39 PM   #69 (permalink)
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somebody care to help the newb.

what is the difference between a dt444, dt446 ? IDI and the 7.3 powerstroke ?
This is the short version, tho I am sure there are more here who are more knowledgable on the subject.

IDI- Indirect injected. Fuel is not directly injected into the cumbustion chamber. This is also a mechanically injected diesel, where everything is based of the fuel pump, timing etc. They came naturally aspirated and turbo. You can have the 6.9L and 7.3L. These also came before the "powerstroke".

7.3- The powerstroke 7.3 came in the late 94 i believe. It's a direct injected, computer controlled engine. This allows you to chip it, or add a tuner.

T444e- Same as the 7.3, but I would call that the industrial name for the powerstroke motor. Usually used to reference motors in MDT and bus applications.

Dt360/dt466- Straight 6, MDT truck motors. This is the cubic " designation. But being inline they are much bigger motor than their v8 counterparts. They also came all mechanical, then later became electrical or "e" such as Dt466e.

I threw in some link for simply reading and the give a little more detail than I did, but there is much more to what seperates these motors than even the link provide.
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Old 12-01-2011, 01:32 PM   #70 (permalink)
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It's taking my long block. Tear it down. New bearings, rods, pistons, cam, heads, intake, coil, custom curved distributor and carb. Dyno tuned. This is not some guy building motors in his garage.

He has a custom "recipe" that works awesome for pulling trucks. He built the exact motor for his brothers truck. I saw the dyno sheet. 485/530. oN regular gas not even premium. It's not a high compression motor. He is getting 9-10mpg empty.


But you're saying I'd need to come up with a running motor right?




That I doubt. I got 6-7 this last trip. And I had some issues which will be remedied. So I should get 7-8. Even at 6 3x the mileage is 18. I could believe 12, maybe. At 8 that would be 16 - 24. I'd have a hard time believing that.

My current IDI is averaging 17mpg cruising 65mph. That is with 4.10's and stock sized duallys. I havent towed enough to get a mileage readout with this engine, but the last engine averaged 12mpg towing my buggy @ 70-75 all day long. 4.10's and stock sized duallys




I bet when I get mine built my 485/530 motor will pull just as good as your 300/500 motor. With it making torque from 1200 - 4000. Wider torque range. Albeit you will get better mileage but not 3x.

485/530 must be on an engine dyno. I would have to see proof of this 485rwhp/530rwtq to buy that. I just did a quick google search of 460 builds and this seems like some secret squirrel type of engine build.

In the diesel world we don't care about BHP, its all about the WHP.

so my 300/550 recipe is roughly 375/690, with a power band of idle-3400rpms, and a superior torque curve.


Don't get me wrong I'm not saying gassers are better engines for towing. It's just what I have and you stated you would provide full turnkey motors. As my body style truck came with the IDI as a option it wouldn't be too much of a pain to swap.

So your trying to sell your idea, sell it to me. Sell me on a turnkey motor to swap into '85 F350 gasser.
I wont lie. If you've got some hookup to get a 485bhp/530btq 460 with zero miles on it, and all brand new parts for only $3k. I can't touch it.
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Old 12-01-2011, 01:38 PM   #71 (permalink)
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Anytime I start seeing "custom manifolds" I think I'm going to drop 5-700 bucks in just manifolds.
THat puts it past my budget when you figure in the rest of it.

I sold a set of my manifolds to a local guy a few weeks ago. $300

Now, this cam swap thing. I'd be willing to rock it if there were precise instructions, and I didn't have to take the motor out of the truck. I have a torque wrench and I know how to use it.

Very simple, and can be done with a simple set of tools. This thing has timing gears, not chains, and everything bolts into place. Its nearly idiot proof.

With a cam swap, we could get that extra 30-50 HP and some torque and still stay N/A? Or would that have to be paired with a turbo?

You couldn't run my "powershaft" on an N/A engine. You would have to run the torque cam. 50hp wouldn't happen. The main thing the cam would do for you in an N/A application is make a stronger powerband

Like I said earlier, I'm willing to drop a grand on a 13 speed, and might eventually drop that much on a turbo setup, but I'm not dumping 3 into a truck that I have less than that in just for another 75HP and some torque. I have things with a higher payoff for that kind of money, like just swapping a complete much larger motor.
Understood.
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Old 12-01-2011, 01:43 PM   #72 (permalink)
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Originally Posted by camo View Post
somebody care to help the newb.

what is the difference between a dt444, dt446 ? IDI and the 7.3 powerstroke ?

IDI - indirect injected. they were offered by navistar/international. They are medium duty engines that were put into the ford pickups from 83-94. They are fully mechanical.

T444e and 7.3 PSD are the same engine. The T444e is the medium duty model which has a completely different computer system. PSD is the ford truck. There is a OBS 7.3 94-97. and the superduty 7.3 - 99-03 They are very different.

DT466 is a an inline 6 international diesel.


anyhow, I have a excursion with the 7.3 powerstroke. 180k on the clock and I intend to keep it forever.

I recently put in a bombproof trans and have been thinking ahead to the day the motor will need to be rebuilt.

I would like to stay just south of the crazy zone on the rebuild but certainly have the budget to build a first class motor that makes big power, offers improved fuel milage and is rock solid reliable.

anybody recommend a builder ?



oh ya, runs 37" tires and geared to 4:30

The people I work with for the IDI fuel systems, specialize in the 7.3 PSD.

In kens own words "the 7.3 PSD is our baby". They show up to dyno events and truck pulls and spank Swamps, BD, and the other popular builders all day long. They do all of their own custom tunes, injectors, hpops, turbo kits, studs... everything. They are pretty popular in the truck pulling circuit.
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Last edited by 1badb2; 12-01-2011 at 01:43 PM.
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Old 12-01-2011, 02:04 PM   #73 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 1badb2 View Post
I wont lie. If you've got some hookup to get a 485bhp/530btq 460 with zero miles on it, and all brand new parts for only $3k. I can't touch it.
Yeah it's engine dyno. Most places builds gassers for racing motors, which this place will do as well. Most people who are towing are doing so with a diesel. It's actually pretty simple, not at all what you would expect.

btw I know I'm not going to get a drop in motor for 3k. But what would one be? What else would be required? Would it be easier/cheaper than a cummins due to already being offered in this truck.

I guess what I getting at is there are a bunch of people like me who have old body style trucks that would like to go diesel, but don't want to undergo a cummins swap. I would think there is a market for an IDI swap due to you being able to make good reliable power from one. and with these being offered as options in these trucks motor mounts, transmissions, positioning in the engine bay etc would be easier than shoehorning a cummins in there. Plus a cummins swap is going to be in the 5k range if I do it myself. And that's a stock power cummins, I'd have to spend more on mods.

I'm not trying to be a pain exploring options.
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Last edited by hadfield4wd; 12-01-2011 at 02:29 PM.
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Old 12-01-2011, 03:26 PM   #74 (permalink)
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Old 12-01-2011, 03:30 PM   #75 (permalink)
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