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Old 04-10-2012, 07:13 PM   #1 (permalink)
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Excursion Diesel ZF6 swap

I wasn't even going to make a thread about this, but this project has been kicking my ass more than I thought it would from the beginning, and there is some interest out there for the poor old Excursions, so here it goes.

I got this truck 2-3 years ago and it has been a good truck. Excursions have a fair number of "problems" for normal truck use because Ford designed them for soccer moms, not truck users.

BUT, the wife LOVES it, so you know what that means... (If you are not married, that means you can never get rid of it until it quite literally falls apart!)

Since I am stuck with this pig, I have been making the best of it. It was actually borderline unsafe when I got it, the stock Excursion suspension leaves a lot to be desired. I have done a lot of the "normal" Excursion stuff, rear sway bar, V/Modified B springs, air bags, shocks, blah blah blah. I have done some stuff to make it a much better tow pig, spyntech hubs and used Rickson 19.5s. Excursions are heavy, and it was eating 285/75r16s like m&ms. The 19.5s have virtually stopped tire wear and they have been working out well.

So, it is pretty squared away, but I have no love for the 4r100 transmission. I thought I could like it with tuner, it still sucks. I thought I could just wait till it blows up and get it replaced with a BTS or John Woods, but the wait was killing me. And it does help I have no love for fluid couplers.


It's swap time!
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Old 04-10-2012, 07:28 PM   #2 (permalink)
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That will be one cool Excursion. I hate automatics! I want to see pics of it on the 19.5s.
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Old 04-10-2012, 07:31 PM   #3 (permalink)
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There is a lot of stuff out there for the pickups. It was somewhat of a "black science" for awhile, with the typical "Want a manual? Go sell your auto truck and buy one!" attitude. I think the trucks are getting older, and not really getting much cheaper due to the emissions crap for diesels, so there has been some more information out there in the last couple years. The actual nuts and bolts of the swap have been covered in a couple threads. I am going to focus on the Excursion aspects, these threads cover the big stuff.

DozerDan's

/forum/tow-rigs-trailers/995689-real-world-values-trans-question.html

And a couple he mentions from powerstroke.org

http://www.powerstroke.org/forum/99-...nverstion.html

http://www.powerstroke.org/forum/99-...f6-swap-4.html

So I read all this shit. And I re read it. And I was ready to make my move. I bought this pile as a parts donor



Plan was to swap the auto from the Excursion into the F350 and sell off the F350 as an automatic.

Plans don't always work out. Now the F350 is for sale as a manual truck
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Old 04-10-2012, 07:42 PM   #4 (permalink)
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The Excursion currently with the 19.5s. I have taken off the trim rings, it looks a lot more like something that is usually accompanied by black helicopters



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Old 04-10-2012, 07:57 PM   #5 (permalink)
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So I drove around the donor for awhile to make sure everything was OK and got all my ducks in a row for the swap. Yager rode my ass for awhile to buy a factory service manual. Like usual, I figured he was full of shit, until I actually listened to him and bought it. Like usual, he was right, I have learned a lot about this swap.
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Old 04-10-2012, 08:12 PM   #6 (permalink)
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So, after a lot of research and poking and prodding, I found out the following -

1. Excursion computers will only run Excursions. There are enough differences, plus they all have a PATS system, that you can not just swap computers around like you can with a pickup.

2. Pickup wiring harnesses have jumpers to change between an auto and a manual in the harness, and it is mostly a plug and play setup. Excursions are wired only for automatic. I should have known this, I had to hack into the wiring to add my AIC because the plug that is there in the pickup is missing in the Excursion. Oh well. This is actually not all bad.

3. Excursions DO have the same firewall as pickups, so clutch pedal mount hardware and the firewall holes are the same. They have a lot more sound insulation, so it is harder to find the mounts, but they are there.

4. Excursions also have the same crossmember as the pickup, so it already has the proper mounting points for the transmission. Driveshafts should bolt up as well. The nuts and bolts are very easy.

5. Just a little tidbit - you can program an automatic computer to run a manual, but you can not run an automatic truck with a manual computer, even if you reprogram it.
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Old 04-10-2012, 08:12 PM   #7 (permalink)
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Only picture I have. It barely fit in that bay of my shop.

Looks great without the beauty rings!




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Yager rode my ass for awhile to buy a factory service manual. Like usual, I figured he was full of shit, until I actually listened to him and bought it. Like usual, he was right
Old wise men know all
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Old 04-10-2012, 08:26 PM   #8 (permalink)
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So swapping the transmissions between the trucks is basically out. I would need to get a wiring harness and computer from an automatic truck, plus a steering column (the excursion column has more buttons/switches for the Excursion only stuff) and a bunch of other random stuff. It was quickly looking like a loosing battle.

So I called Joe's Transmission in PA, and they sent me out a pallet of stuff. One call got me a reman transmission, a good used throwout arm, reverse switch and shift tower, plus new ford parts for the clutch pedal, adapter plate, transfercase input, shift boot, shift lever and shift knob. DozerDan used them and liked them, and they are recommended by a couple other people. I would absolutely use them again. It is nice to have everything included for a decent price, beats having to track everything down separately.

http://www.joestransmission.net/

So, the interior is stripped out,



The transfercase is out and the input is swapped, and I am waiting to get the clutch, but the transmission is almost out. Everything is going pretty well so far, but the wiring is next, and it might be a mess.
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Old 04-10-2012, 10:46 PM   #9 (permalink)
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6 speed swap

I'll definately be following this one. I am in the process of putting a V10 Ex body on a diesel running gear. May just swap in a manual while i'm at it?

Looking forward to your progress reports.
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Old 04-11-2012, 08:22 AM   #10 (permalink)
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Quote:
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a good used throwout arm
Please make sure this is the updated Ford clutch fork, the first design like I had does and WILL bend/brake. I'd hate to see you end up with one destined to fail.

"The part number on the updated clutch fork is YC3Z-7515-BB".

What my early style looks like now:
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Old 04-11-2012, 08:29 AM   #11 (permalink)
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"Tanks 250" at Powerstroke Nation has a ZF6 in his Excursion.

http://powerstrokenation.com/forums/member.php?u=2744
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Old 04-11-2012, 10:32 AM   #12 (permalink)
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Quote:
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Please make sure this is the updated Ford clutch fork, the first design like I had does and WILL bend/brake. I'd hate to see you end up with one destined to fail.

"The part number on the updated clutch fork is YC3Z-7515-BB".

What my early style looks like now:
Yeah, been there done that. My old truck did not fail, but it was close when I pulled it. This one is the new style.
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Old 04-11-2012, 10:48 AM   #13 (permalink)
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Quote:
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"Tanks 250" at Powerstroke Nation has a ZF6 in his Excursion.

http://powerstrokenation.com/forums/member.php?u=2744
Does he have a thread on it? I have not found it. I have seen them, I know they exist, but I have not found much information on how to actually do it, specifically the wiring involved.

This is the closest thread I have found for an Excursion specific swap

http://www.powerstroke.org/forum/99-...excursion.html

But is another "I just slapped one in" thread.

I am trying to get the wiring figured out, just throwing in the transmission is easy.
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Old 04-11-2012, 02:36 PM   #14 (permalink)
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Quote:
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"Tanks 250" at Powerstroke Nation has a ZF6 in his Excursion.

http://powerstrokenation.com/forums/member.php?u=2744
Tank's big thing is a crew cab with short box/topped is it not?
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Old 04-11-2012, 03:13 PM   #15 (permalink)
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Def a big props to Joes transmission. Great guys to deal with. Very knowledgeable and helpful!!!

I still need to finish up some things on mine, but over all am loving it.

Need to wire up my reverse lights (finally got the switch wire from ford) and find/make a tunnel cover, as mine is still rocking the cardboard "temp" cover I made for it. haha

I never did get a shifter for it, as the one I made I kinda like and it was simple and free.

If you do not plan on reusing the old clutch let me know (or go look in my thread) for the one I got. Complete with everything I think it was $365 or something like that online with free shipping.



If you need any other input let me know.
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Old 04-11-2012, 03:58 PM   #16 (permalink)
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Quote:
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Tank's big thing is a crew cab with short box/topped is it not?
That is what his profile pic is of, and thats the only posts I could find referenced. BUT, I do know some people have more than one Powerstroke...
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Old 04-11-2012, 04:19 PM   #17 (permalink)
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Which version ZF6 are you using?
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Old 04-11-2012, 05:38 PM   #18 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DozerDan View Post
Def a big props to Joes transmission. Great guys to deal with. Very knowledgeable and helpful!!!

I still need to finish up some things on mine, but over all am loving it.

Need to wire up my reverse lights (finally got the switch wire from ford) and find/make a tunnel cover, as mine is still rocking the cardboard "temp" cover I made for it. haha

I never did get a shifter for it, as the one I made I kinda like and it was simple and free.

If you do not plan on reusing the old clutch let me know (or go look in my thread) for the one I got. Complete with everything I think it was $365 or something like that online with free shipping.



If you need any other input let me know.
I got a LuK pro gold clutch, I had really good service with one in my last truck.

Do you have cruise control? Get it to work? Did you remove the clutch jumper and add the clutch switch to get it to start, or rewire the range selector for the auto?
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Old 04-11-2012, 05:41 PM   #19 (permalink)
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Quote:
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Which version ZF6 are you using?
ZF-S6-650, the only one I am aware of that bolt to the 7.3 in a Ford truck. The 6.4 uses a ZF-S6-750, technically rated a little higher, but I think it only bolts to the 6.4.
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Old 04-11-2012, 05:51 PM   #20 (permalink)
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Getting the trans in is the easy part. Getting cruise and other assorted items to work like factory is the hard part. My wife would love a manual Excursion.
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Old 04-11-2012, 07:00 PM   #21 (permalink)
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Getting the trans in is the easy part. Getting cruise and other assorted items to work like factory is the hard part. My wife would love a manual Excursion.
EXACTLY. Plenty of threads on the physical swap, not much firm information on the electronics.

I have the factory service manual, and I have been researching everything I need to do to.

There are a couple vague tidbits in other swap threads about what needs to be done, but nothing definitive, and most of the information is for pickups, not Excursions.

So far, I think the Excursion might actually be a little easier, because the engine control, start control, and cruise control wiring is simpler than the trucks because it was only ever produced with the automatic. It needs to be, electrically at least, in "N" or "P" to start, and it might need to be in "D" to have the cruise control working. I am still double checking the factory service manual.

I am considering skipping the clutch switch, which means it will start in gear, but I am the primary driver and the CJ-10 and CJ-7 start in gear, so I think I can handle it
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Old 04-11-2012, 08:09 PM   #22 (permalink)
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How does the cruise get it's "D" signal? From the transmission controller or a hard switch?

Can you wire the clutch switch so it will turn on the cruise? Then it will turn off the cruise instead of going crazy when you push the clutch.
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Old 04-11-2012, 09:05 PM   #23 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by gavan View Post
I got a LuK pro gold clutch, I had really good service with one in my last truck.

Do you have cruise control? Get it to work? Did you remove the clutch jumper and add the clutch switch to get it to start, or rewire the range selector for the auto?

I have cruise but have not rewired it to work. From what I have read I have to jump (not cut splice) two wires in the harness and it will work. I keep meaning to do it but lack ambition.

I added the clutch switch, it came with the master cyl setup I got and the wire was already under the dash so I used it,

the range selector I just removed, took the gauge cluster apart, removed the p-1 indicator, sprayed it flat black and then put a peice of electrical tape behind it and reinstalled. You can not tell it was there, even with the back lights on.
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Old 04-11-2012, 09:17 PM   #24 (permalink)
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How does the cruise get it's "D" signal? From the transmission controller or a hard switch?
From the sector switch on the side of the transmission. Which connects to the steering column shift lever via a cable.
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Old 04-12-2012, 06:48 PM   #25 (permalink)
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Quote:
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ZF-S6-650, the only one I am aware of that bolt to the 7.3 in a Ford truck. The 6.4 uses a ZF-S6-750, technically rated a little higher, but I think it only bolts to the 6.4.
Yes, you are correct. Forgot about the different bells for different motors. I am not a Ford guy, but I just picked up a ZF-S6-750 to behind my cummins!.
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