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Old 05-03-2012, 06:53 PM   #1 (permalink)
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Engine choices

Im getting ready to start building my new tow rig and need some advice on engine options. The engine that I have is ford 330 that needs some carb work and has a 2 speed rear end. I plan on towing a 20' bumper pull or 30' goose with trucks or old farm tractors and cant find really any info on the 330. What would be a good engine for my use and tranny too? Ill start the build thread when I get my body work done.
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Old 05-03-2012, 08:44 PM   #2 (permalink)
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My 66' 330 2-barrel 4-spd w/ 2-spd rear end feels pretty strained with 1400gal of water in the back on the gravel roads, don't think I'd want to try and trailer whatever load weight you need a 20 or 30ft for. This is just my opinion with my truck, so take it as you will.

If I was going to update it for some pulling power (ours has 30,000 original miles and is in great shape, but a grain truck platform), I'd swap a 12v Cummins or DT360 with a ZF-6 or step up to an Eaton 8+ spd.

Just my thoughts.
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Old 05-04-2012, 08:34 AM   #3 (permalink)
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For a transmission, I would get a 5 or 6 speed manual or your pick of easily adaptable automagics. It is going to depend more on your engine choice.

Plebeian?

460 Big Block, or the Chevy 350 of the Diesel world, a 5.9 Cummins.

More expensive, less power, more economy, will still pull?

Cummins 4BT or Isuzu 4BD1T

Exotic(er)?

3-53, 4-53 of if you are feeling very fabb-y 3-71 Detroit. Deutz 5 or 6 cyl.
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Old 05-04-2012, 12:11 PM   #4 (permalink)
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Originally Posted by sniper_101 View Post
My 66' 330 2-barrel 4-spd w/ 2-spd rear end feels pretty strained with 1400gal of water in the back on the gravel roads, don't think I'd want to try and trailer whatever load weight you need a 20 or 30ft for. This is just my opinion with my truck, so take it as you will.

If I was going to update it for some pulling power (ours has 30,000 original miles and is in great shape, but a grain truck platform), I'd swap a 12v Cummins or DT360 with a ZF-6 or step up to an Eaton 8+ spd.

Just my thoughts.
1400 gallons of water is over 11,600 lbs. No small load really.
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Old 05-04-2012, 12:33 PM   #5 (permalink)
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For a transmission, I would get a 5 or 6 speed manual or your pick of easily adaptable automagics. It is going to depend more on your engine choice.

Plebeian?

460 Big Block, or the Chevy 350 of the Diesel world, a 5.9 Cummins.

More expensive, less power, more economy, will still pull?

Cummins 4BT or Isuzu 4BD1T

Exotic(er)?

3-53, 4-53 of if you are feeling very fabb-y 3-71 Detroit. Deutz 5 or 6 cyl.
don't forget DT466.

Cheap, reliable, easy to find donor vehicles in running condition.
think schoolbus.
about the same stock power as a 5.9, but not as many upgrade possibilities. The upside is that they're not in high demand like a p pumped 6bt.
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Old 05-04-2012, 03:26 PM   #6 (permalink)
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Ill start looking for the 5.9 and tranny to swap but run with my 330 for a bit to see how I like it first.. The truck will just be my custom cab and a 8 to 10 flat bed. Youll see why I need the pickup sized engine later, i get my chassis tomorow.

Last edited by redneck94; 05-04-2012 at 03:43 PM.
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Old 05-04-2012, 03:54 PM   #7 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 87manche View Post
don't forget DT466.

Cheap, reliable, easy to find donor vehicles in running condition.
think schoolbus.
about the same stock power as a 5.9, but not as many upgrade possibilities. The upside is that they're not in high demand like a p pumped 6bt.
DT 466 and 360 are good engines, but if I had to guess, if it was replacing a Ford 330, it will take a crane to make it fit!
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Old 05-04-2012, 03:59 PM   #8 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by redneck94 View Post
Ill start looking for the 5.9 and tranny to swap but run with my 330 for a bit to see how I like it first.. The truck will just be my custom cab and a 8 to 10 flat bed. Youll see why I need the pickup sized engine later, i get my chassis tomorow.
All the motors I mentioned are "pickup sized", with the possible exception of the 3-71.

If you need under hood room, a 4BT or 4BD1T will fit much better than a 6BT. 4BD1T is shorter than a 4BT, and may be cheaper.

If you are tight on length, a 5.9 will not be your friend. I would even consider a 6.9 or 7.3IDI, it will probably package better in an old truck than a 6BT. There is a thread here about a 5.9 in an older Ford cab, turned out , but a bunch of sheet metal massaging.
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Old 05-04-2012, 04:13 PM   #9 (permalink)
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Im more worried about radiator width. I know about im84's build and rooster's. My truck is just a different make and has had some other sheetmetal work. Id like an engine that doesnt get terrible mileage like my 460.
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Old 05-04-2012, 04:43 PM   #10 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by redneck94 View Post
Im more worried about radiator width. I know about im84's build and rooster's. My truck is just a different make and has had some other sheetmetal work. Id like an engine that doesnt get terrible mileage like my 460.
4BTs especially, because of the type of injection and head design, do not make a huge amount of heat, and will make do with a smaller radiator. I have a pretty small rad in my CJ-10 with no problems. A 4bt should get a little better mileage than a 6bt, but it will be slower, of course. And more expensive to find, but cheaper to work on.

This guy did some nice work, but then he sold the truck

First thread with a 4BT and a ZF5, couple dead pics

http://www.4btswaps.com/forum/showth...he-cab-mounted!

Second thread with a 6BT and a 10 speed

http://www.4btswaps.com/forum/showth...anger-10-speed

4btswaps.com actually has a number of decent threads highlighting older trucks ands diesel swaps. Probably worth trolling around for some ideas.
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Old 05-04-2012, 08:47 PM   #11 (permalink)
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Thanks for the links, guess either use a cummins if i can find one cheap enough or stick with IH and use a 7.3.
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Old 05-04-2012, 08:58 PM   #12 (permalink)
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Thanks for the links, guess either use a cummins if i can find one cheap enough or stick with IH and use a 7.3.
if size (or block length to be exact) is a problem i vote for the DT444.
exact same power, same torque as the DT466, just a shorter life expectation... so dont buy a high mileage DT444

plenty of cheap used skoolies have them ... just throw away the Auto and replace it with a manual
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Old 05-04-2012, 09:02 PM   #13 (permalink)
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Good idea, any clue how large a radiator I would need( if my 330 radiator might work), its the only thing really limiting me. and i partially blame you for what im doing.

Last edited by redneck94; 05-04-2012 at 09:09 PM.
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Old 05-05-2012, 07:28 AM   #14 (permalink)
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Good idea, any clue how large a radiator I would need( if my 330 radiator might work), its the only thing really limiting me. and i partially blame you for what im doing.
lol ... sorry

what type/brand/year truck are you building ? do you have any pics of the hood ?

whatever you do , do not use the split radiator/charge cooler that is in some low hp/ low hood IH`s (just ask "angryblack" )
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Old 05-05-2012, 07:34 AM   #15 (permalink)
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Yea we need some specs on your mystery tow rig.

Me personally Id blow my brains out if I had to go back to using a gas engine to tow with.
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Old 05-05-2012, 12:15 PM   #16 (permalink)
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Ill try to post pics of my cab in a day or 2. The cab started as a 1950 IH L130 and it came with a 1954 R110 cab, I didnt like the room of the single cab so I built a crew cab using the 2 cabs. My version of a rat rod.
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Old 05-05-2012, 01:15 PM   #17 (permalink)
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You could also switch to a 428 out of a thunderbird, I've seen a few of them pass through the junkyards in the last five years.

We've got a 361 industrial in our New Holland Super 1049 Stackcruiser. It's got a 4spd and a 2 speed rear end. Fully loaded the 361 will still do 65mph. It weighs about 15,000lbs empty and a full load of hay is another 10,000lbs. I switched out the governed holley for an autolite 2100 two barrel because the holley leaked like a sieve and needed to be resealed at the start of every season. It moves along just fine for the ungainly beast it is.
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Old 05-06-2012, 08:38 AM   #18 (permalink)
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Damn, I haven't seen a Stacker in a LONG time. I love those things, never figured out why they didn't catch on.
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Old 05-06-2012, 10:37 AM   #19 (permalink)
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Well, assuming you have a FE motor

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ford_FE_engine

there is a ton of info and stuff on the engine. Personally, I would upgrade to the 390FE / 391 FT and go with the aluminum intake. You will need hardened valve seats for use with unleaded gas no matter what FE choice.

I guess you have a Clark 5 speed,so, that is a keeper. If you have a NP-435 it is easy enough to convert to 4x4 with a Dana 21.

The Detroit Iron CD for FEs is nice for rebuilding info.
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Old 05-06-2012, 12:55 PM   #20 (permalink)
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The truck had a 4 speed in it but was sold before I bought it. It has a 2 speed rear end so the 4x4 swap would be complicated(F700 not a pickup). Ill be sticking with the 7.3 swap now Ive seen several around me for cheap.
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Old 05-06-2012, 01:31 PM   #21 (permalink)
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What the heck is that thing? I honestly can't tell what's going on in that pic.
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Old 05-07-2012, 05:31 PM   #22 (permalink)
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could someone tell me how I can get a pic posted of my cab without a star or online photo gallery?
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Old 05-08-2012, 06:21 PM   #23 (permalink)
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Damn, I haven't seen a Stacker in a LONG time. I love those things, never figured out why they didn't catch on.
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What the heck is that thing? I honestly can't tell what's going on in that pic.
You drive through a hayfield picking up the 75lb sqare bales with it and it stacks them into a huge cube on the back. When it's full (160 bales later) you drive it to where you want the hay stacked. The back section flips up and it has pushoff feet that slide the machine out from under the stack. You support the first stack against a wall or use poles to hold it up, then rest all the other stacks in a line against it.

I've disabled all the auto functions of ours because we use it in hilly country. When a bale would slide back on a table and hit the "table full" trigger and the table would automatically flip up and dump a half dozen bales on the gound it got old quick. Easier to keep on top of it and pull a lever in the cab when needed. Plus I can use the 2nd table to hold the bales in the back when I go forwards down hill.

They are awesome machines if you've ever picked up and stacked hay by hand. Nothing like cruising around in a suspended seat and pulling levers instead of having a broken back and hay rash all over. It's also a lot of fun driving a machine where the operator's cab is literally 5' in front of the front axle centerline.

They didn't catch on because people went to the round bales or the huge square bales that you need a tractor to handle at both ends of the process. With 40 cows, using the small bales is still practical. We use a small trailer and a 71 Bronco to feed in the winter. We also have a hay grapple on the tractor that can pick up a flat of bales 3 wide by 6 deep for stacking in the barns the stackwagon won't fit into. I've used the stackwagon inside a barn before but it was tricky. I could only fit 7 rows high, so I had to slide the stack down 2 rows in the machine without slamming it as I tilted the back up because it's meant to go 9 rows deep. You need like 25' high celings to be able to flip the back up with a full load.

Here's a video of the exact same model machine we have with a guy explaining how to run it. It starts like 3 minutes in because he likes to ramble. New Holland 1049 Super Balewagon in action - YouTube
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Old 05-09-2012, 04:44 PM   #24 (permalink)
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if size (or block length to be exact) is a problem i vote for the DT444.
exact same power, same torque as the DT466, just a shorter life expectation... so dont buy a high mileage DT444

plenty of cheap used skoolies have them ... just throw away the Auto and replace it with a manual
Where did this info come from? A T444E makes the same torque as a DT466? Exact same power?
The highest ratings? T444E:230hp/605tq
DT466(90-92):270hp/860tq. Same years at 230hp rating it was 660tq, and at less rpm than the 444.
Not that a 466 would fit in a pickup anyway.
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Old 05-09-2012, 05:18 PM   #25 (permalink)
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I went from a 460 to a 5.9 in a 78 F350. Fit was very good and easy. No firewall mods or anything. I did have to use the cummins radiator because the 460 radiator leans in some. The cummins radiator allowed me plenty of room for a mechanical fan.


Lots of support and options for the cummins.
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