6.0 vs 7.3 vs Duramax vs Cummins

[takotruckin]

Originally Posted by 73jeep

They all have their pluses and minuses, find something you like and be happy with it.
The closer to stock you leave it the better of you will be.

Yes and no there. Every truck has certain things that REALLY need done to it to help prevent problems.

[bobbed83toy]

anyone wanna take a guess on how many different cooling hoses are on the new ford 6.7? i will tell you it has two radiators, a primary and secondary

[72blazer]

I have an '06 LBZ and love the truck. Even with the crew cab, space is at a premium with my wife and 3 toddlers. I recently developed a boost leak and the IFS is crap Other than that, it's been a great truck and would only now wish I'd waited for a leather interior setup.

[me2]

Originally Posted by bobbed83toy

anyone wanna take a guess on how many different cooling hoses are on the new ford 6.7? i will tell you it has two radiators, a primary and secondary

9 hoses on the engine cooling system proper, including the engine oil cooler, and heater hoses but not including any EGR, turbocharger,charge air or transmission oil or fuel cooling, or counting anything labelled a tube or connector. See the list on page 303-03B-5 of the 2011 shop manual.

The "engine" cooling system does not have 2 radiators. The engine block is cooled by a single radiator.

The "Secondary Cooling System" cools the charge air via a water to air exchanger, transmission oil, fuel and EGR. See page 303-03C.

The secondary cooling system has 10 hoses counting the one labelled "hose assembly" as a single hose.

The secondary cooling system does away with the need for an air to air intercooler.

So total hose count on the "cooling system" is 19 hoses. And that does not include the lines to and from the transmission, nor the charge air hoses.

It takes 126 pages in the shop manual to cover the 2 diesel cooling systems.

If you want mind boggling, the front accessory drive on a 6.7 with dual "generators" has 11 pulleys ! 2 water pumps, 2 generators, 2 idlers, 1 tensioner, 1 crank, 1 power steering, 1 AC, 1 fan.

The single generator engine has 10 pulleys.

I cannot believe that people actually buy trucks with those engines ! And I like Ford trucks.

[me2]

Originally Posted by jwwaldschmidt

The Allison is a tough transmission, and should outlast the engine if you keep things stock.

The Allison is a very weak transmission protected by a smart transmission controller. It is very good at torque managing the engine during shifts and limping the engine as soon as anything slips.

If you add power to a truck with an Allison or if you mess with the shift programming, you can expect trouble.

As with all these trucks, the more power you add, the faster things break.

As far as transmissions go, the Ford 5R110 is way stronger than most, able to hold big tunes in stock form for a significant portion of its life without needing a high dollar build from some far off transmission wizard.

The 6R140 is new to the scene, but seems even stronger than the 5R110. So strong in fact that the aftermarket has not seen the need to produce performance parts for it. The TC in it, for example is triple disk, from the factory.

Part of the 6R140s longevity may be due to the fact that people aren't (yet) able to make a Ford 6.7 have the same sort of output that the For 6.4 could achieve. Nevertheless, people are having good results towing with tunes with the 6R140.

Don't try that with most of the other auto transmissions out there.

And lest you think you want a good ole manual transmission, the practical towing torque limit of street friendly (organic double disk) high performance clutches is about 800 ftlbs. After that you get into obscene pressure plate forces and metalic clutch linings that have some nasty side effects, like chattering when backing up a trailer and being prone to warping.

And 800 ftlbs is about the limit anyway for the 1 3/8 input shafts in a towing application. That is why the FSO6405/6s and 8405/6s are available with 1 3/4 and 2" input shafts.

Hope this helps.

[72blazer]

Originally Posted by me2

The Allison is a very weak transmission protected by a smart transmission controller. It is very good at torque managing the engine during shifts and limping the engine as soon as anything slips.

If you add power to a truck with an Allison or if you mess with the shift programming, you can expect trouble.

So you decided to read the first part of his post only huh?

And aren't the 6RwhateverTHEfuck going in for service quite frequently for service...electrical/ shifting issues??

Knock on wood, but have yet to limp my Allison....although yes it does happen.

[bobbed83toy]

Originally Posted by me2

9 hoses on the engine cooling system proper, including the engine oil cooler, and heater hoses but not including any EGR, turbocharger,charge air or transmission oil or fuel cooling, or counting anything labelled a tube or connector. See the list on page 303-03B-5 of the 2011 shop manual.

The "engine" cooling system does not have 2 radiators. The engine block is cooled by a single radiator.

The "Secondary Cooling System" cools the charge air via a water to air exchanger, transmission oil, fuel and EGR. See page 303-03C.

The secondary cooling system has 10 hoses counting the one labelled "hose assembly" as a single hose.

The secondary cooling system does away with the need for an air to air intercooler.

So total hose count on the "cooling system" is 19 hoses. And that does not include the lines to and from the transmission, nor the charge air hoses.

It takes 126 pages in the shop manual to cover the 2 diesel cooling systems.

If you want mind boggling, the front accessory drive on a 6.7 with dual "generators" has 11 pulleys ! 2 water pumps, 2 generators, 2 idlers, 1 tensioner, 1 crank, 1 power steering, 1 AC, 1 fan.

The single generator engine has 10 pulleys.

I cannot believe that people actually buy trucks with those engines ! And I like Ford trucks.

actually there are a total of 67 hoses on the new 6.7

[me2]

Originally Posted by bobbed83toy

actually there are a total of 67 hoses on the new 6.7

The question said "cooling hoses", not hoses in general.

[me2]

Originally Posted by 72blazer

And aren't the 6RwhateverTHEfuck going in for service quite frequently for service...electrical/ shifting issues??

Yes, some of them are having shift calibration issues. I haven't heard of them going into limp mode, but that doesn't mean it hasn't happened. And having to go to the dealer is a bad thing no matter what.

The "shift flare" issue has nothing to do with the hard parts in the transmission. Ford will get the calibration issues worked out and I think the 6R140 will be a fine transmission. Its built like a tank.

[rcfatcat]

id say get an obs 7.3 like 95 to 97. had mine for two years and it hauls everything i throw behind it! deffinitly not the fastest thing on the planet but it always gets myself and the load behind it to the destination and dont get me wrong it has no problem pulling its just no speed demon. you can usually get a decent one for under 10,000 and use the excess cash to change it how u want or throw into your trail rig. i personally added a chip to mine and swapped in a zf6 6spd manual and its been that way ever since.. they push 215 hp and 300 ft lbs not tooo bad for a older truck like that and mine dynoed with the chip on tow tune at 227hp and 395 ftlbs to the rear wheels.
this is my usual setup

[Mikeybuck]

01 lb7 ex cab, short bed duramax
180K
replaced a water pump, and a few other small things.
40hp tune
33s
18mpg towing.

Great truck, just cost a little more to up keep than a gasser and since I only tow around 5K, I might be going back to a gas truck.

[CowboyKyle]

Originally Posted by Mikeybuck

18mpg towing.......tow around 5K.

Nope.

[Back Woods]

Originally Posted by me2

The Allison is a very weak transmission protected by a smart transmission controller. It is very good at torque managing the engine during shifts and limping the engine as soon as anything slips.

If you add power to a truck with an Allison or if you mess with the shift programming, you can expect trouble.

I can count a handful of trucks running tunes for over 100,000 miles with no problems.

Shit, our 06 has had almost $16k in motor work and the transmission has had only 2 or 3 different filters. Tuned for the past 160,000 all while towing a trailer.

[RedPurdueYJ]

Originally Posted by me2

And 800 ftlbs is about the limit anyway for the 1 3/8 input shafts in a towing application. That is why the FSO6405/6s and 8405/6s are available with 1 3/4 and 2" input shafts.

I've never understood why would need anymore than 600 ft. lbs in a 1 ton pickup.

We towed from Ft. Wayne, Indiana to the hammers with a bone stock Duramax. It would accelerate so hard that it would get wheel hop. it would cruise at 80 MPH. I even hit 90 in it through arizona. All while grossing 30,000 lbs.

Much more than that and you are looking at unsafe weights for any 1 ton chassis and are better off getting a MDT.

So what can you do with 800 ft. lbs that you can't with 600? Are you drag racing while towing?

[me2]

Originally Posted by RedPurdueYJ

I've never understood why would need anymore than 600 ft. lbs in a 1 ton pickup.

We towed from Ft. Wayne, Indiana to the hammers with a bone stock Duramax. It would accelerate so hard that it would get wheel hop. it would cruise at 80 MPH. I even hit 90 in it through arizona. All while grossing 30,000 lbs.

Much more than that and you are looking at unsafe weights for any 1 ton chassis and are better off getting a MDT.

So what can you do with 800 ft. lbs that you can't with 600? Are you drag racing while towing?

I'm not biting.

[jwwaldschmidt]

Power numbers are just a pissing contest.

How smooth is the power delivered, that's what I'm interested in.

At the point that your vehicle can hold its speed, fully loaded, up a decent grade, there is no need for additional torque, in my eyes.

The ONLY time I ever wish for more power is accelerating for short on-ramps. Most people see a 50', 25k+ pound chunk of steel heading towards them, and move. So that's not even a very big deal.

I run my Duramax stock for now, no complaints. I have every intention of getting a small tune, mostly for improved fuel economy, and to enable the turbo brake to help with slowing things down. Otherwise, I love the power completely stock.

[u2slow]

Originally Posted by KyleQ

You have some money to play with, you want power and a good chassis, why not find yourself a nice 1 ton Ford and put a 6BT in it. I know it is a little work, but they are strong and reliable motors and the Ford chassis are nice.

This ^^^^

I'll go a step further and suggest a 87-97 F350 (or F250 with D60 swap). I had one of these trucks. Ironically, it was the 7.3 PSD that made me get rid of it.

[me2]

Originally Posted by jwwaldschmidt

Power numbers are just a pissing contest.

Until you are pulling a big fawking trailer in the mountains with a head wind. Then it starts to matter. Its no fun pulling passes at 30 MPH.

Drive from Seattle to San Francisco going through the mountains pulling a 14K trailer when the desert winds are blowing and you might have a different opinion.

Sometimes I wonder if people in this forum actually really tow anything.

[jwwaldschmidt]

Originally Posted by me2

Until you are pulling a big fawking trailer in the mountains with a head wind. Then it starts to matter. Its no fun pulling passes at 30 MPH.

Drive from Seattle to San Francisco going through the mountains pulling a 14K trailer when the desert winds are blowing and you might have a different opinion.

Sometimes I wonder if people in this forum actually really tow anything.

14k is hardly a "big fawking trailer" in my eyes. Any of the late-model Diesels could pull that without issue. So again, why do you need the extra power?

[me2]

Originally Posted by jwwaldschmidt

14k is hardly a "big fawking trailer" in my eyes. Any of the late-model Diesels could pull that without issue. So again, why do you need the extra power?

Eugene Oregon to Redding CA. Try it sometime.

[jwwaldschmidt]

Originally Posted by me2

Eugene Oregon to Redding CA. Try it sometime.

That would mean going to Commie-fornia, not something I plan on doing. Well, I lied, but Glamis is about the only reason I'd do so.

[RedPurdueYJ]

Originally Posted by me2

Until you are pulling a big fawking trailer in the mountains with a head wind. Then it starts to matter. Its no fun pulling passes at 30 MPH.

Drive from Seattle to San Francisco going through the mountains pulling a 14K trailer when the desert winds are blowing and you might have a different opinion.

Sometimes I wonder if people in this forum actually really tow anything.

Like I posted, over halfway across the country with a truck and trailer combo that weighed 30,000 lbs. which translates to about a 20k lb trailer.

Bone stock duramax with a tuner set on level 1.
It's not exactly flat the entire way to KoH...

[No Sparkplugs]

Originally Posted by me2

pulling a 14K trailer when the desert winds are blowing and you might have a different opinion.

Sometimes I wonder if people in this forum actually really tow anything.

try grossing 27k through the Appalachians. then get back to me!
i have to wonder; does me-troll own a truck, or is it all smoke and google images ?

somewhat to the point of the thread, we've had excellent luck with dmaxes. had a stock lb7 and other than a set of injector under warranty, it didn't need anything, towed great, and it was a work truck with 180k. the not quite stock lly would go as fast as you dared while grossing 27k. new 2011 lml is truly awesome, only towed 10-12k lbs so far, but it's like running empty. exhaust brakes are great on it too.

as an A-B comparison, LLY quit one night while towing 19k (this is why you don't lay ECM wiring on the turbo). hooked the trailer to a CR Cummins, and damn near lost a tooth everytime we hit a bump. engine was noisier and trans seemed less than happy vs. the allison.

[RFR2212]

Originally Posted by ironpig70

Basically I want a rig that will do everything from tow a travel trailer to towing a 10,000 pound tractor. Need to seat a family of 5. Fuel economy is a concern and I want freaking power. If I am loaded I wanna be able to move.

Hmm. Do I give the MeTWO response and say this is all wrong, or get a King Ranch?

OR do I say this: I'm currently using an 06 Dodge 2500 with a built trans and a Smarty Jr to pull either my YJ or JK. The smarty burned up the trans, yes, the Jr. did that. In the flat lands it tows great. Milage is 10-14 depending on speed and where I am (IL-Co.) In the Co altitude, it loves to smoke, so it's a gear changing game to stay smoke free. I've also run a 7.3 down I-70. Eisenhower and Vail had me at 55 tops, bouncing between 2-3rd gear, and though not hot, it was running out of power. This truck was stock with a 4in lift and 35's (how I bought it.) Milage was similar.

I ditched the PSD for the CTD, because I like the CTD better. Just a personal choice. If my old PSD was given to me and I was told to haul the Jeep west with it, I'd do it with no hesitation. Ford has a better interior too. Oh, and body. I've heard few complaints of Dmax's in the mid 2000's but they're IFS going. But that's off what the 'net says.


That said, if you need cab space, find what you like best. CTD, PSD or Dmax. You'll get a good truck with any of them.

[89breaker]

Originally Posted by me2

Eugene Oregon to Redding CA. Try it sometime.

I have an '01 F250 PSD and have driven from KY to NC to AK to CO to CA with a 15K goose and then some.

Only time I ever dropped to 30 (due to hills) was on grades approaching 10%.....you are doing it wrong.

A mild tune and/or gearing and I would have pulled them easy but I don't want to screw with a good thing.