school me on SAE 2/3 transmissions...

[bf]

what year is the f350? i know an rtoo9513 will fit in and obs. pretty sure they work in the super duties as well.

[RoosterBooster]

Originally Posted by Mr. Mindless

Ouch. RTOO it is, then!

Otherwise it's time to rebuild the wheel wells and make room for some 11r22.5s or comparable. Funny how it's the same reasons pushing the same trans as ideal. At least with a Dana 80 the one ton crew have options of 3.55s or 3.73s.

the first thing i noticed when driving the 19.5 u-haul chassis was the little bowlingball hard tires compared to the way nicer rolling comfort of my old IH4900 with 11R22.5ers
imho a 10/11R 22.5 or a mild lopro (~ /75R22.5) would change the ride drastically ... the front fender would have plenty of room, but i guess the rear tubs would need surgery
at least manche (who is dumping the u-haul body) could easy switch

btw
new black powdercoated Accuride steel 22.5 rims are $ 99 ... not as cool (light) as aluminum rims but would look sharp with chrome or SS lugnut covers.

[lurchseesu]

Originally Posted by Pt_Ranger_V8

I think I want a baby 10 in my F-350.... But, will it fit is the question.

The SAE2 engine mounts on the clutch housing will be your biggest hurtle on fitting it. I believe swampfox just cut his off for the J20.

[RoosterBooster]

Originally Posted by Pt_Ranger_V8

I think I want a baby 10 in my F-350.... But, will it fit is the question.

judging by swampfox`s J-truck pictures i would say yes... the "baby 10" is very compact and only ~425 lbs



the "baby 13" (RT613) is considerably larger with the additional splitter added to the rear (or is it a range ?!? ... i keep confusing them) and iirc over 500 lbs :

[randii]

Driveline slop really adds up even across light-duty parts. My 4x4 Amigo has a toyota 5-speed and two t-cases, and it is perceptible and annoying there... i imagine it would be worse with driveshafts in the picture. See if you can drive a truck with an aux. tranny before you go to the effort.

Randii

[bf]

some pics of sae2 bellhousings in obs frame. some of these are chris evans pics, some are from random forums.

[RoosterBooster]

Originally Posted by MT4Runner

... 87manche and I were just having a sidebar conversation via PM about the ESO66 being the best (if you want synchros)....

Frankly, if you won't be heavily loaded, you don't need the splits you can get from a 13-speed...

i agree completely with the first part
... especially with the elevated & flatter torque curve of even a very mild turbo upgrade the 7-speed ESO gear steps would be up to the task in most situations.

however, keeping a engine in its "sweet spot" with a 13 speed is not only nice for heavy loads... the impact on fuel economy is just as important to me.

the 13 speed swap will definitely be at least 2x the $$ of a ESO swap and it only makes sense if you drive the rig a lot.
(you can buy a lot of diesel with the price difference )

i think if i run into a nice ESO66 or similar MDT trans at the junkyard i may still go that route (and focus on getting a little more torque/wider RPM range out of the engine)

[JayMcJay]

Originally Posted by oldenginebuilder

My employer has a '73 C65 dump truck, with a 7.0L gasser, Spicer 5652-B 5-speed, backed by a Spicer 7041 auxillary. Here's the net result:
16.36
10.10 = 62%
8.57 = 85%
7.08 = 83%
5.88 = 83%
5.78 = 98%
5.29 = 92%
4.37 = 83%
3.63 = 83%
3.35 = 92%
3.03 = 90%
2.50 = 83%
2.31 = 92%
2.08 = 90%
1.76 = 85%
1.45 = 82%
1.21 = 83%
1.20 = 99%
1.00 = 83%
0.83 = 83%

So why not just fit a 7041 into the U-Haul?

In the interest of education, mind filling me in on this splitter?
I think I read it's a divorced box. Does it have syncros? Is it just 2 speeds? What is the split ratio? Could it be used like a Gearvendor overdrive for bigger vehicles?

[nat_ster]

Originally Posted by lurchseesu

The SAE2 engine mounts on the clutch housing will be your biggest hurtle on fitting it. I believe swampfox just cut his off for the J20.

No, just ditch what ever shit engine that's in it, and swap in a Cummins out of a bus that already has a SAE2 adapter on it.

I have a few extra SAE 2 Cummins adapters if anyone is interested shoot me a pm.

Nat

[87manche]

When I was going hard in the paint ona trans swap I found this page:

http://www.ttcautomotive.com/english...er/product.asp

it's very useful, and it has shift pattern decals for yor dash or whatever after you swap something.

Here's the PDF for the 7041:
http://www.ttcautomotive.com/english...2309-4_134.pdf

bascially it's a 4 speed box. A double under, under, direct and over.
I was looking at them myself as a fix to my 55 MPH problem, but the OD wasn't deep enough, they're big,heavy and hard to find.

[lurchseesu]

Originally Posted by RoosterBooster

the 13 speed swap will definitely be at least 2x the $$ of a ESO swap and it only makes sense if you drive the rig a lot.
(you can buy a lot of diesel with the price difference )

You think so? I'd think takeout junkyard OD 13's would be a lot more common than the mythical unicorn ESO's. I'd think you could get one a lot cheaper than that certain 7 speed.

Finding a 13 with a 1 3/4" input might be tricky though. If all you could find were 2", than I guess there would be money there in getting them swapped.

[oldenginebuilder]

Originally Posted by randii

Driveline slop really adds up even across light-duty parts. My 4x4 Amigo has a toyota 5-speed and two t-cases, and it is perceptible and annoying there... i imagine it would be worse with driveshafts in the picture. See if you can drive a truck with an aux. tranny before you go to the effort.

Randii

This might be worth considering. The C65 I drive is never on public roads, so IDK how it'd feel in traffic or on the interstate.

[SSSRodeo]

All of this information is interesting.! Been following on the sidelines.
Some of you have read my post about wanting a cable shift 6 speed for my Motorhome. (Thick basement) Still looking for something in my price range. (Wouldn't be such a big problem if I'd just sell off some stuff!!!!!)

The rebuilt Spicer 5831 3 speed I picked up some years ago to put behind the AT 542 (SAE # 2) is still sitting unused in the shop and waiting. Even bought new output and input flanges for the darn thing. Not a big fan of trying to split shift a Brownie Box with an automatic. So I'm using the AT with the 1:1 for now. Mileage sucks!
But, one of these days, somebody is gonna have to have a good brownie. And I'll be there!



I reading this closely and still hoping to find that elusive cable shift tranny. I know Fuller offers that option in the FS6406 6 speed , but I can't find one with the cable shift option it on it. So, I'm still looking!

The way things are going I'll probably end up sticking another 5 speed Allison Auto behind it. It has got to have at least one overdrive gear.

I would love to have the Isuzu MLD6Q Cable six speed, but they are worth more than gold to those who have them for sale. I just haven't got $6 G's laying around to spend on a used transmission for a 90's era Motorhome that doesn't see more than 3 trips a year.

6 Grand will buy a lot of diesel. Well, maybe not so much now!!!!!!!!

Ya'll keep hashing these things out. One of the days I'm going to be able to walk into a truck salvage yard and be able to hold a half way intelligent conversation with them.
Too bad a 10 or 13 speed would be so redundant! Talk about overkill!!!!!!

[[486]]

Originally Posted by SSSRodeo

The rebuilt Spicer 5831 3 speed I picked up some years ago to put behind the AT 542 (SAE # 2) is still sitting unused in the shop and waiting. Even bought new output and input flanges for the darn thing. Not a big fan of trying to split shift a Brownie Box with an automatic. So I'm using the AT with the 1:1 for now. Mileage sucks!

You could just put the aux in the highest range to start off with. You have a torque converter, so it just makes a little extra trans heat to deal with the steeper ratio instead of something like a burnt up clutch trying to get moving in too high of a gear.

I'd run the one you've got.

[RoosterBooster]

SSS ... your "problem" got me thinking ...(i love technical challenges)

imho i would not mess with a 6- or 7-speed
the biggest downfall of them is the shifting pattern; you start at your knee and work your way over to the passenger window
7 gears in a l-H-l gate pattern is a lot of potential error... especially if you remote shift it.

a 13 speed on the other hand has a simpler l-H gate ... the rest is air shifted ... and air lines could be extended indefinitely

building a remote mechanical shifting device should not be that big of a challenge ....
i`m thinking mid engine/transaxle sandrail or airplane yoke to rudder.... could be cable or a push/pull/twist rod

13 speed in a pusher would be sweet ... you would never ever be short of a gear regardless the situation

[SSSRodeo]

Originally Posted by [486]

You could just put the aux in the highest range to start off with. You have a torque converter, so it just makes a little extra trans heat to deal with the steeper ratio instead of something like a burnt up clutch trying to get moving in too high of a gear.

I'd run the one you've got.

I thought about doing just that. But since the AT542 still not a lock torque converter it will still be inefficient. I would really like to row my own when I'm dragging my Super Silly Slow Rodeo.(The Rodeo has the same three Marlin Crawler transmissions as Randii has in his Amigo.)

But, I guess I can make do with it.

The brownie could always be shifted to 2nd (1:1) for take off on normal flat stuff and 1 ST (2:1) when I need to crawl out of a canyon dragging the Rodeo. We've stuck the MH on the side of the hill a few times because it couldn't climb up the grade without a running start while leaving the camp grounds in Colorado with the Rodeo in tow. Ended up pushing the MH with the Rodeo via the tow bar to get it to the top of the hill. But that was with the EFI 460 Ford engine and C6 too! (What a fun experience that was!)

Still a 6 speed manual with a Granny Gear would simplify the whole process. Not to mention the drive shafts are brand new.

But like you said, sometimes it better to run what you got!


Oh, I almost forgot to mention, the AT 542 is only rated for 250 horses and my 5.9 is turned up to 350! So taking off in high range all the time is gonna make for a short life for the AT.

[angryblack]

Originally Posted by SSSRodeo

I thought about doing just that. But since the AT542 still not a lock torque converter it will still be inefficient. I would really like to row my own when I'm dragging my Super Silly Slow Rodeo.(The Rodeo has the same three Marlin Crawler transmissions as Randii has in his Amigo.)

But, I guess I can make do with it.

The brownie could always be shifted to 2nd (1:1) for take off on normal flat stuff and 1 ST (2:1) when I need to crawl out of a canyon dragging the Rodeo. We've stuck the MH on the side of the hill a few times because it couldn't climb up the grade without a running start while leaving the camp grounds in Colorado with the Rodeo in tow. Ended up pushing the MH with the Rodeo via the tow bar to get it to the top of the hill. But that was with the EFI 460 Ford engine and C6 too! (What a fun experience that was!)

Still a 6 speed manual with a Granny Gear would simplify the whole process. Not to mention the drive shafts are brand new.

But like you said, sometimes it better to run what you got!


Oh, I almost forgot to mention, the AT 542 is only rated for 250 horses and my 5.9 is turned up to 350! So taking off in high range all the time is gonna make for a short life for the AT.

Stop being a punk, blow it up..Used ones are cheap

No but really what about looking in the west indies for a used tranny and getting it shipped here..I know a few shipping people here in NY..Could be feasable..Many people here buy plastic barrels to ship goods back home for the family.You could have a better chance of getting the cable tranny outside the usa possibly...

Oldenginebuilder has me rethinking my 6041..Instead of running cables im thinking of building a simple airshifter and pushbotton box with indicator lamps aside my shifter..At first I only wanted the direct and over but im seeing the need for the unders as well.. I can live without the non lockup converter..Swapping a manual into my truck wont happen with the pcm harness issues that ive heard you have to deal with.

[SChandler]

I noticed that the discussion of 10/13 speed transmissions revolves only around what Eaton/Fuller makes. Are there no other manufacturers of HD transmissions to consider? I was looking at the TTC Automotive link posted by 87manche and saw that Spicer had a couple of transmissions that seem like they might be candidates for these swaps.

[lurchseesu]

Spicer, Rockwell, etc make big trans as well. Eaton Fullers are just so popular because they're the most common and easiest to find parts for. Any big truck boneyard is going to be full of roadrangers.

[MT4Runner]

Originally Posted by angryblack

No but really what about looking in the west indies for a used tranny and getting it shipped here..

How/why are they more common in the islands? Buses?

[spreader]

There is the old 12 speed Spicer. But it is big & heavy. And, you gotta remember where you are in the pattern. Low & high range and split each gear, IIRC. Had 12 speeds in reverse also.

[isbj60]

Originally Posted by lurchseesu

Finding a 13 with a 1 3/4" input might be tricky though. If all you could find were 2", than I guess there would be money there in getting them swapped.

Swapping to the 1 3/4" input shaft is easy. they are designed to have the input shaft replaced when redoing the clutch, so the input shafts will come in a complete clutch kit. No disassembly of the transmission required. I have seen these kits on ebay for $150 or so, so it would probably suspect they are $300 ish from a dealer.

I actually have a lightly surface-rusted 1 3/4" input shaft I got a while ago for my project but am not using. Rooster, if you go this route and need it let me know and we can work something out.

[BassnTruck]

Originally Posted by SSSRodeo

All of this information is interesting.! Been following on the sidelines.
Some of you have read my post about wanting a cable shift 6 speed for my Motorhome. (Thick basement) Still looking for something in my price range. (Wouldn't be such a big problem if I'd just sell off some stuff!!!!!)

The rebuilt Spicer 5831 3 speed I picked up some years ago to put behind the AT 542 (SAE # 2) is still sitting unused in the shop and waiting. Even bought new output and input flanges for the darn thing. Not a big fan of trying to split shift a Brownie Box with an automatic. So I'm using the AT with the 1:1 for now. Mileage sucks!
But, one of these days, somebody is gonna have to have a good brownie. And I'll be there!



I reading this closely and still hoping to find that elusive cable shift tranny. I know Fuller offers that option in the FS6406 6 speed , but I can't find one with the cable shift option it on it. So, I'm still looking!

The way things are going I'll probably end up sticking another 5 speed Allison Auto behind it. It has got to have at least one overdrive gear.

I would love to have the Isuzu MLD6Q Cable six speed, but they are worth more than gold to those who have them for sale. I just haven't got $6 G's laying around to spend on a used transmission for a 90's era Motorhome that doesn't see more than 3 trips a year.

6 Grand will buy a lot of diesel. Well, maybe not so much now!!!!!!!!

Ya'll keep hashing these things out. One of the days I'm going to be able to walk into a truck salvage yard and be able to hold a half way intelligent conversation with them.
Too bad a 10 or 13 speed would be so redundant! Talk about overkill!!!!!!

Out of curiosity what were you wanting for it? I have a MT643 that locks up in 3rd and 4th.

[RoosterBooster]

Originally Posted by lurchseesu

You think so? I'd think takeout junkyard OD 13's would be a lot more common than the mythical unicorn ESO's. I'd think you could get one a lot cheaper than that certain 7 speed.

Finding a 13 with a 1 3/4" input might be tricky though. If all you could find were 2", than I guess there would be money there in getting them swapped.

found a RTO9513 as well as a RTO12613 for $950 ... the only thing that sucks is the $500 core charge (and i bet they are not willing to take the 5-speed as a core )
thats why i have to check with local yards... they may be a little more flexible with trading and things (i do have a shitload of semi stuff to get rid off, so i may be able to work out a deal)

Originally Posted by SChandler

I noticed that the discussion of 10/13 speed transmissions revolves only around what Eaton/Fuller makes....

imho Eaton/Fuller/Roadranger has a long and stellar reputation for building excellent (reliable and easy to shift) transmissions ... to be honest i dont even look at any other brands

Originally Posted by isbj60

Swapping to the 1 3/4" input shaft is easy. they are designed to have the input shaft replaced when redoing the clutch, so the input shafts will come in a complete clutch kit. No disassembly of the transmission required. I have seen these kits on ebay for $150 or so, so it would probably suspect they are $300 ish from a dealer.

I actually have a lightly surface-rusted 1 3/4" input shaft I got a while ago for my project but am not using. Rooster, if you go this route and need it let me know and we can work something out.

cool ! ... yeah , i just looked at the "bolt on" input shaft bearing retainer and was thinking that looks darn easy to remove ... maybe there is a purpose to it
thats definitely great news, and i may be interested in the shaft (if its for a RTO series 13 speed)
... as i pointed out to SSSRodeo the straight 7-speed shift pattern is a pain in the ass, so if possible i rather deal with the trouble of adapting (and the excessive weight) of a 13

... after looking at a shitload of different transmission specs i realized that there is just nothing else out there that offers the sweet little ~ 16% gear steps like a 13

[isbj60]

This is a ways from you, but what you're looking for I believe. Maybe you can find someone on here willing to haul it for you.

http://www.ebay.com/itm/9-5-13-FULLE...-/170893455751