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Old 05-01-2006, 02:16 PM   #1 (permalink)
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Clogged Catalytic converter on a diesel

This last weekend I towed my new trailer behind my '01 PSD. I recently replaced the outlook monitor I had with guages. I am noticing pretty high EGTs and pretty low boost. I have a list of things I am going to replace or fix. One suggestions I was given was that the catalytic converter may be clogged.

I have to admit that I am pretty ignorant of the inner workings of cats. Anyone got any experience with clogged cats? I can understand a cat getting clogged faster with a diesel, and since I have 211K on mine I am sure that poor old cat is clogged up solid.

Anyone got any advice or methods for cleaning out a cat? I need to have a serious talk to it and may opt to give it a lobotomy.








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Old 05-01-2006, 03:03 PM   #2 (permalink)
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I don't think there is a cat on an 01' I thought it was only 94-97's that had them. But if you do, a good 16" punch works great, just pound the screen out of it or better yet remove the cat like 99% of them on the road. That is if you don't have to pass a emissions visual!
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Old 05-01-2006, 03:47 PM   #3 (permalink)
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Originally Posted by wheelin66bronco
I don't think there is a cat on an 01' I thought it was only 94-97's that had them. But if you do, a good 16" punch works great, just pound the screen out of it or better yet remove the cat like 99% of them on the road. That is if you don't have to pass a emissions visual!

Mine has one, I think it was only the 275hp motors that have them, and they were only available with the 6-speed, and I only think that engine was available with the 6-speed for 1-2 years. There isn't a whole lot of credible info on this subject.

For anyone who has gutted a cat, is the screen brittle so that its easy to break into small pieces? I am going to get a friend to let me come over to his house in a couple of weeks and pull the cat to see what I have. I want to at least have the option of being able to pass a visual inspections. I don't have to worry right now, but there has been a lot of talk about diesel emmissions inspections. I am moving to rural Oregon so I hope I don't have to worry in the future either, this emission inspections BS is like a virus and Cali seems to be spreading it everywhere.
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Old 05-01-2006, 05:20 PM   #4 (permalink)
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I've hollowed out a cat on a '79 pinto (at 2AM on a wednesday in the front yard of a residential neighborhood, but thats another story ) with a big crow bar. a 5lb sledge, and a lot of noise...but little effort... It took longer to drop the thing out and remount it than hollow it out.

I don't know if they're harder on big trucks though



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Old 05-01-2006, 05:55 PM   #5 (permalink)
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The innards are a honey-comb of ceramic coating in precious metals (rhodium, platinum). Pretty easy to break up, especially with the large diameter of a diesel exhaust. If you gutted it and left the body of the cat on there you wouldn't have an issue with visual emissions. A diesel doesn't have O2 sensors either, so the computer ain't gonna know. MAYBE a sniffer test, but who does those on a diesel? Maybe Cali....
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Old 05-01-2006, 05:59 PM   #6 (permalink)
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Yes the screen comes out easy. When I lived in Cali I gutted mine, the hardest part will be removing the cat without cutting it out.
If you are moving to rural Oregon I'd just cut it out and forget about it. My buddy lives in Meford/Central Point area and I know he said there is no diesel emissions test/visual.
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Old 05-01-2006, 06:01 PM   #7 (permalink)
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Originally Posted by 4x4not
MAYBE a sniffer test, but who does those on a diesel? Maybe Cali....
Colorado does, measures light ratio through the soot with engine lugging. Cali does not have any diesel emissions test that I know of.
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05 Dodge free-spin conversion http://www.pirate4x4.com/forum/showthread.php?t=880388
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Old 05-01-2006, 06:20 PM   #8 (permalink)
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My 01 has the catalytic converter too; and yes, it's a 6speed, with the 275HP engine.

As for Cali, I'll bet there is a inspection/test coming any year now. The CARB has a real hard on to get diesel soot emissions lowered or eliminated..
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Old 05-01-2006, 06:29 PM   #9 (permalink)
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gutting them is no problem. however I sincerely doubt that your cat is clogged.

Check the air filter as well as the intake ducts leading to the filter housing especially if you've still got the stock housing.

Low fuel pressure under load will also spike the EGT's since the fuel isn't getting atomized well.

An EBPV that is partially stuck closed will also cause problems.

I'll say that @ 170k on my '95 when my cat puked it's guts there was not any sign of clogging. I used a section of 1/2" steel pipe and a 3# sledge. there will be a flange before the cat that is easy to get out. Ford offers a cat delete pipe that is typically a special order piece but slides right in.


for what I know of the superduty cats were limited to cali emissioned vehicles during certian years.
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Old 05-01-2006, 08:32 PM   #10 (permalink)
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The EBPV is where I would start. Signal comes to the EBPV to close from both temperature and backpressure. Backpressure is supplied to the sensor from a tube that runs off the front of the passenger side exhaust manifold. This tube is notorious for clogging and not sending a backpressure signal telling the EBPV to open fully.

Mine did it on a trip from Denver to Moab and back pulling two CJ's. I had no power on any grade and ridiculously high EGTs. Search www.thedieselstop.com and find where the electrical plug is that actuates the EBPV. Unplug it so it will open and see if you notice the symptoms any longer. If they go away you know what's causing the problem.

Since you just installed the gauges, what are you basing your assumption of high EGT and low boost on?

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Old 05-01-2006, 08:38 PM   #11 (permalink)
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demonranger, I saw the factory delete pipe once on a website, but haven't been able to find it since. Got any hints where I might look?


All my upgrades have come from info read on TDS. I have the AIS intake, and I know the filter is OK since its less than a year old and still looks new. I am going to be opening up the snorkle for the intake to help with some of the restriction. I know I am getting plenty of fuel, too much in a few cases as I have throw a SES code a few times that is typically associated with the HPOP not being able to keep up with the demand, which is not too uncommon with the programming I have.
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Old 05-02-2006, 12:46 AM   #12 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by TheTonka
demonranger, I saw the factory delete pipe once on a website, but haven't been able to find it since. Got any hints where I might look?


All my upgrades have come from info read on TDS. I have the AIS intake, and I know the filter is OK since its less than a year old and still looks new. I am going to be opening up the snorkle for the intake to help with some of the restriction. I know I am getting plenty of fuel, too much in a few cases as I have throw a SES code a few times that is typically associated with the HPOP not being able to keep up with the demand, which is not too uncommon with the programming I have.
There's a PBB Vendor who sells all the MBRP stuff for diesels.
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Old 05-02-2006, 05:13 AM   #13 (permalink)
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The reason you can't find it on TDS is that cat removal/gutting/modification is one of many forbidden topics so all threads discussing such have been removed or censored. You'll be able to discuss whatever at www.superdutydiesel.com or www.thedieselgarage.com. which is where I spend my time searching for diesel info.

Cat delete pipe (Ford) XC2Z-5A212-AA (SD type, cheap but must be shortened)

The SES code you're talking about is either the low ICP pressure or IPR duty cycle error. This indicates the problem in the HPOP system however there are no sensors in the fuel system to indicate if you have inadequate fuel pressure. When you have inadequate fuel pressure you are relying on the hydraulics to suck the fuel in rather than it being pushed in which generates air bubbles in the fuel, which compress more than fuel absorbing some of the injection force provided by the HPOP. The only way to check the fuel pressure is to attach a manual guage to the system. I've read numerous threads with the electric pumps that would keep the pressure at idle but fail under load and the same is seen in the early PSD's that came with a mechanical pump.

In the picture here the item labeled EBPV is actually the sensor not the valve, there is a tube from that sensor going down to the passenger's side head that CSP was referring to getting clogged. Unfortunately they are not really cleanable when they get clogged.
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Old 05-02-2006, 06:58 AM   #14 (permalink)
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Quote:
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The reason you can't find it on TDS is that cat removal/gutting/modification is one of many forbidden topics so all threads discussing such have been removed or censored. You'll be able to discuss whatever at www.superdutydiesel.com or www.thedieselgarage.com. which is where I spend my time searching for diesel info.

Cat delete pipe (Ford) XC2Z-5A212-AA (SD type, cheap but must be shortened)

Yeah I have been yelled at for cat removal posts.

Thanks for the part number.
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Old 05-02-2006, 07:28 AM   #15 (permalink)
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Originally Posted by 4x4not
The innards are a honey-comb of ceramic coating in precious metals (rhodium, platinum). Pretty easy to break up, especially with the large diameter of a diesel exhaust. If you gutted it and left the body of the cat on there you wouldn't have an issue with visual emissions. A diesel doesn't have O2 sensors either, so the computer ain't gonna know. MAYBE a sniffer test, but who does those on a diesel? Maybe Cali....

Nope, there are NO smog tests done on diesels in Cali.
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Old 05-02-2006, 11:30 AM   #16 (permalink)
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Unfortunately they are not really cleanable when they get clogged.
I should have mentioned that, however at ~$20 for a new one it's hardly worth the effort to even try and get the soot out of the old tube.
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Old 05-02-2006, 12:07 PM   #17 (permalink)
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Any exhaust shop will do a back pressure test on your cat for free (They want to sell you a cat)
I'd start there before just hogging it out.
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Old 05-02-2006, 12:16 PM   #18 (permalink)
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Nope, there are NO smog tests done on diesels in Cali.
Snap idle test done on trucks of 28K unladen wieght and above, CARB is listening to Air Polution Districts and is thinking of lowering the GVW to catch smaller diesels.
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Old 05-02-2006, 01:12 PM   #19 (permalink)
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Snap idle test done on trucks of 28K unladen wieght and above, CARB is listening to Air Polution Districts and is thinking of lowering the GVW to catch smaller diesels.

I have heard so much BS on this subject I don't know what to believe. I know a number of mechanics that believe that most, not all, of the cats on the road, regardless of fuel, do not work as they are expected to work and the restriction they cause does more damage to clean air than good by reducing efficiency.

All I know is that the cat on my truck is a restriction and the restrictions and potential leaks I have increase my EGTs, decrease my mileage, and increase the smoke screen. I have all the power I want I just want to be able to safely use it. There is no way this big ass truck towing my big ass trailer is going to be as clean as a Honda Civic, and I hate that the greenies expect them to.

Alright I'll get off my soapbox now, I know I am blocking the view.
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Old 05-02-2006, 01:15 PM   #20 (permalink)
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I found the cat delet pipe at 1stfordparts.com. $57 +shipping. I think I found my solution.

Of course its for "off road use" only right?
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Old 05-02-2006, 01:38 PM   #21 (permalink)
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If your car/truck/tractor/lawnmover came with an emmissions control device, it is aginst the law to remove or tamper with it.
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Old 05-03-2006, 02:32 PM   #22 (permalink)
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If your car/truck/tractor/lawnmover came with an emmissions control device, it is aginst the law to remove or tamper with it.

There are a lot of things we do to our vehicles that are illegal. The way I see it my current setup is limiting my trucks ability to efficiently produce power, this results in lower fuel economy and increased smoke. By reducing the exhaust back pressure I will open up my trucks ability to use less fuel and produce less smoke for the same amount of work or more. If the car is clogged it is not working properly now so eliminating it will only be an improvement in my trucks emmisions.

Too many people in the state just assume that adding a technology like a cat will automatically make a car produce cleaning outputs. Few of these people seem to have any concept of systems. I have seen the outputs of gasoline engines from Honda that produce lower emissions without any California mandated smog equipment. I have seen the smog check cert of a guy in my old Jeep club whose 500hp 355 small block in his 3B put out about half the harmful emissions as my moms '94 Dodge Caravan. Smog laws in this state DO NOT WORK, and few are based on true logical analysis of the vehicle as a system.



Damn I was back on the soap box wasn't I.

If I gut my Cat I will not feel guilty about it or worry about getting in trouble. The worst case I may run into would be a visual inspection and an empty cat will pass.
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Old 05-22-2006, 12:10 PM   #23 (permalink)
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Well I put in new boost tube, boots, disconnected the wastegate(need a more permanent solution)and modded the CCV. In addition I had a little talk with my cat. We came to an agreement, he's not going to restrict the exhaust anymore and I will let him live.

The little pieces of honeycomb that came out were so coated in soot I figure they reduce the airflow in each channel by at least 50%. The truck runs MUCH better and sounds bitchen. I highly recommend straight piping to anyone with a diesel.
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Old 05-22-2006, 08:59 PM   #24 (permalink)
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Don't worry about the cat in AZ either. I just took my 96 PSD with 212k in last week for the annual emissions. They just check the fuel caps and opacity. I recently put on a 3" downpipe and 4" SS catback with a 5" tip. You put the truck in park and watch a computer screen that tells you to floor it for 10 seconds and then let it idle. You do this 5 times. Scares the hell out of the other customers when you do it, especially when the turbo kicks in.

I did the first test and the guy called over a couple other higher ups. He said they needed to do it again, something was wrong with the sniffer. Did the rev/idle thing again and he said he couldn't believe it was 1/10 of what was allowed. My opacity was 4.6%, 40% allowable. Did it with the slide-in in the bed too, I think that threw them for a loop.

The only thing that tops that is the time I took the buggy in on 38's and letting the guy row the gears in low range. I'm suprised the swampers didn't bounce off the rollers. It's scary how out of round Interco can make a tire.
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Old 05-22-2006, 11:47 PM   #25 (permalink)
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well not sure about fords but if your dodge came with one you gotta have it or something that loooks like it on. Yea you gotta love the emmissions testers, my 3k GSK will rev to about 4k, hell if they will ever see it that high, I had a supervisor yelling at me to floor it, I just yelled back louder that it was and whata you know I passed with a max RPM of 2800......
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