Thinking about a new tow rig - Pirate4x4.Com : 4x4 and Off-Road Forum

Travis Waldher · 07-28-2002, 01:42 PM

Would have to go used, want it to be diesel. Would love an automatic, but giving up on that I think for a reliable tranny, say a manual. LOL

I'm looking for a 4 door, minimum extended cab. It will be towing a trailer close to 15,000lbs and I would like it to pull the mountain passes at the speed limit.

ok.. when did the ford first offer the powerstroke? Is there a better worse year to look for?

Dodge, when did the 12 and 24 valve cummins come out?

Josh83 · 07-28-2002, 01:57 PM

CTD became 24 valve in 97. Those are definately the ones you want if you go Cummins.

AGGIECJ-7 · 07-28-2002, 03:13 PM

the "Powerstroke" was not available by name until 95. they put the same motors in the 94's with the standards, but they were not named "powerstroke" yet. if you got the auto tranny in 94, you would have gotten the indirect injection turbo diesel.

KS Toy · 07-28-2002, 08:32 PM

Better get a FORD if you want to "pull the mountain passes at the speed limit" with or with out a load...

mike · 07-29-2002, 12:25 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by 4Runner Josh
CTD became 24 valve in 97. Those are definately the ones you want if you go Cummins.

98.5 model year. 97's are still 12 valve.

TEX · 07-29-2002, 05:42 AM

Towing 15k up the passes at speed limit? Will probably need to say something like "Freightliner" or "Peterbuilt" on the side of it.

TEX

Eskimo · 07-29-2002, 05:57 AM

Ford: The motor wasn't intercooled until '97(?), and wasn't called the powerstroke until '95..Enough on that

Dodge: The Cummins is THE motor, and will make gobs and gobs of power with few modifications... exhaust & black box will let you produce in excess of 600ft-lbs with ease.. get some gauges to monitor the EGT, and you're set!

Don't discount the 12 valve... they have a large injection pump, which allows lots of power.

By all means, get a manual tranny, especially in the older years. Dodge has never been known for good auto trannies. (Nor is Ford or Chevy behind the diesels!)

FWIW: Chevy did a "power tour" with the Duramax (300hp, 520trq) which was a 3500 diesel, loaded towing a BIG trailer, total weight was at the GVWR, something like 24-25k(?), and they were able to do 50mph up a 6 or 8% grade... A cummins can easily be made to have MORE pulling power than the stock duramax, soooo.. you won't need "Peterbuilt" on the side, just diesel under the hood..

Travis Waldher · 07-29-2002, 06:57 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by Eskimo

Don't discount the 12 valve... they have a large injection pump, which allows lots of power.

Is there any year that is to far back? I know if I go to old on teh diesels, the diesels don't produce at much usable power as my Magnum 360. (I've outpulled Chevy, Ford, and Dodge on grades with a bigger load, but they were older trucks I outpulled)

pcorssmit · 07-29-2002, 05:21 PM

Best 12 Valve Dodge's were '96-early '98, most power stock and modified. They went to the inline injection pump with the new body in '94, the older ones have a rotary pump, less hp potential.

Try www.tdr1.com for Dodge diesel info, there are similar boards for GM/Ford Diesels too.

As far as mine, I have a '97 5 spd Dodge, 215 hp/440 tq stock. For ~300, you can buy a #10 TST plate for the injection pump that is rated at 330 hp/750 tq, however pulling a load you will have to make exhaust inprovements at the very least. I ran mine for ~1.5 years w/the #10 and a 4" exhaust + a K&N, pulls great (most hills in 5th, as long as the turns aren't too sharp), I've had a few times when its real hot out I've had to back out due to high exhaust gas temps. Gauges are a must for modified diesels (EGT and boost, plus tranny temp for autos).

The stock Dodge 5 spd clutch is good for around 680 ft lbs, and aftermarket ones are not cheap.

Pete

CSP · 07-29-2002, 10:33 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Eskimo
Ford: The motor wasn't intercooled until '97(?)

Nope, intercooler didn't come until the '99 model year.

Eskimo · 07-30-2002, 05:19 AM

Glad I put the (?) in there...wasn't sure.

Part of me wants to keep my D/D '01 Toyota 2wd (21-22mpg), and get an older tow rig, but the other part wants to sell the Tacoma and get a nice new Diesel truck...

Was looking at some of the products for the newer trucks, and with the electronically controlled motors, you can adjust your economy/power on the fly... For the Dodge, there's a box that monitors fuel pressure & EGT and will pull fueling if either goes outside parameters you set.. piece of mind, for sure!

These new diesels are awesome.

DSI · 07-30-2002, 10:21 AM

but travis, why would you replace that 1/2 ton 360 if it passes all the big named high power diesels pulling heavier loads?? sounds like you'd be downgradeing...

or you're dodge isn't quite what you say it is

i was extremly happy witht hepower fo my V10 (mileage sucked) and as my PSD is breaking is i'm startign to really love the 17-20 mpg driving it like a port's car

and after adding my 4in exhaust last night, WOW! major throttle responce/take off difference, and it sounds like it should say "kenworth" on the side of it

Travis Waldher · 07-30-2002, 11:36 AM

Well.. the 360 hasn't had any problems pulling a load and out pulling an OLDER Diesel. Probably pre 1990's haven't been able to keep up. But I am probably also working the engine harder.

Problems is.. the 1/2 ton aint up to the task of pulling a 30' gooseneck w/ two rigs on it. It pulls a 8-9,000lb trailer now and does it but doesn't care for it. (Max speed out of vantage on I-90 is 55mph in 2nd gear and I want to do my 70mph)

It just can't be good for a 1/2 ton running gear, treating it like a 3/4 ton truck.

I also get crappy fuel economy, from Moses lake to ellensburg I got around 6.5mpg at best towing that trailer. I normally get around 10mpg towing, 10mpg around town and 17mpg if I am lucky cruising at freeway speeds in OD.

diesel is cheaper than Super unleaded usually. (my truck REQUIRES 92 octane or better).

IMHO
a V10, well.. poor fuel economy for the power you get out of it. Either you can do the V8 or go Diesel.

So.. I'm leaning toward a 97 or so Dodge Cummins, 5 speed, or *maybe* a Ford Powerstroke 4 door as a close 2nd.

DSI · 08-01-2002, 12:36 AM

the V-10 got the same or or better mileage towing than your V8 did, and would pull vantage @ 70 with an equal load, higher gear's larger tire's and be in 3rd gear getting 8+mpg!

now my new PSD with the PHAT exhaust, the wastegate mod, teh pump mod and a 125hp chip

probably do 80 in OD

07-28-2002, 01:42 PM	#1 (permalink)
Travis Waldher Pirate4x4 Addict! Join Date: May 2001 Member # 4878 Location: Bremerton, WA Posts: 7,523	Thinking about a new tow rig Would have to go used, want it to be diesel. Would love an automatic, but giving up on that I think for a reliable tranny, say a manual. LOL I'm looking for a 4 door, minimum extended cab. It will be towing a trailer close to 15,000lbs and I would like it to pull the mountain passes at the speed limit. ok.. when did the ford first offer the powerstroke? Is there a better worse year to look for? Dodge, when did the 12 and 24 valve cummins come out?

07-28-2002, 01:57 PM	#2 (permalink)
Josh83 Registered User Join Date: Jul 2001 Member # 5899 Location: Frankfort, KY Posts: 1,274	CTD became 24 valve in 97. Those are definately the ones you want if you go Cummins. __________________ Josh "Tim McGraw is my cousin. Everyone says we look alike, only i am the uglier more out of shape version of him with creepy eyes. He never calls. He beat me up once at a family reunion when i was 8. Then he married Faith. Goddam prick."

07-28-2002, 03:13 PM	#3 (permalink)
AGGIECJ-7 Granite Guru Join Date: Apr 2001 Member # 4228 Location: Newark, Tx Posts: 884	the "Powerstroke" was not available by name until 95. they put the same motors in the 94's with the standards, but they were not named "powerstroke" yet. if you got the auto tranny in 94, you would have gotten the indirect injection turbo diesel. __________________ Steven W My Website 82 CJ-7 - SOA, geared, locked, 35's 02 Ram 2500 - Cummins, 4x4, 6spd

07-28-2002, 08:32 PM	#4 (permalink)
KS Toy Registered User Join Date: Nov 2001 Member # 7938 Location: The Land of OZ... Posts: 3,512	well... Better get a FORD if you want to "pull the mountain passes at the speed limit" with or with out a load...

07-29-2002, 05:42 AM	#6 (permalink)
TEX Registered User Join Date: Apr 2000 Member # 603 Location: Missouri, USA Posts: 14,194	Towing 15k up the passes at speed limit? Will probably need to say something like "Freightliner" or "Peterbuilt" on the side of it. TEX __________________ www.probog.com Thanks to: www.heiseroil.com Extreme Performance www.kmelectronics.com Bear Creek Auto Recyclers www.svrehorsepower.com

07-29-2002, 05:57 AM	#7 (permalink)
Eskimo Registered User Join Date: Mar 2002 Member # 10429 Location: Danville, PA Posts: 4,456	Ford: The motor wasn't intercooled until '97(?), and wasn't called the powerstroke until '95..Enough on that Dodge: The Cummins is THE motor, and will make gobs and gobs of power with few modifications... exhaust & black box will let you produce in excess of 600ft-lbs with ease.. get some gauges to monitor the EGT, and you're set! Don't discount the 12 valve... they have a large injection pump, which allows lots of power. By all means, get a manual tranny, especially in the older years. Dodge has never been known for good auto trannies. (Nor is Ford or Chevy behind the diesels!) FWIW: Chevy did a "power tour" with the Duramax (300hp, 520trq) which was a 3500 diesel, loaded towing a BIG trailer, total weight was at the GVWR, something like 24-25k(?), and they were able to do 50mph up a 6 or 8% grade... A cummins can easily be made to have MORE pulling power than the stock duramax, soooo.. you won't need "Peterbuilt" on the side, just diesel under the hood.. __________________ Rich Q. FJ-40 Cruggy - tuned 5.3/4WS rockwells/linked/ORI's/42's

07-29-2002, 05:21 PM	#9 (permalink)
pcorssmit Rock God Join Date: May 2001 Member # 4406 Location: Denver Posts: 2,335	Best 12 Valve Dodge's were '96-early '98, most power stock and modified. They went to the inline injection pump with the new body in '94, the older ones have a rotary pump, less hp potential. Try www.tdr1.com for Dodge diesel info, there are similar boards for GM/Ford Diesels too. As far as mine, I have a '97 5 spd Dodge, 215 hp/440 tq stock. For ~300, you can buy a #10 TST plate for the injection pump that is rated at 330 hp/750 tq, however pulling a load you will have to make exhaust inprovements at the very least. I ran mine for ~1.5 years w/the #10 and a 4" exhaust + a K&N, pulls great (most hills in 5th, as long as the turns aren't too sharp), I've had a few times when its real hot out I've had to back out due to high exhaust gas temps. Gauges are a must for modified diesels (EGT and boost, plus tranny temp for autos). The stock Dodge 5 spd clutch is good for around 680 ft lbs, and aftermarket ones are not cheap. Pete __________________ Life should not be a journey to the grave with the intention of arriving safely in an attractive and well preserved body, but rather to skid in sideways , beer in hand, body thoroughly used up, totally worn out and screaming "WOW, what a ride."

07-30-2002, 05:19 AM	#11 (permalink)
Eskimo Registered User Join Date: Mar 2002 Member # 10429 Location: Danville, PA Posts: 4,456	Glad I put the (?) in there...wasn't sure. Part of me wants to keep my D/D '01 Toyota 2wd (21-22mpg), and get an older tow rig, but the other part wants to sell the Tacoma and get a nice new Diesel truck... Was looking at some of the products for the newer trucks, and with the electronically controlled motors, you can adjust your economy/power on the fly... For the Dodge, there's a box that monitors fuel pressure & EGT and will pull fueling if either goes outside parameters you set.. piece of mind, for sure! These new diesels are awesome. __________________ Rich Q. FJ-40 Cruggy - tuned 5.3/4WS rockwells/linked/ORI's/42's

07-30-2002, 10:21 AM	#12 (permalink)
DSI Pirate4x4 Addict! Join Date: May 2000 Member # 920 Location: The Land of Debauchery (NV) Posts: 15,130	but travis, why would you replace that 1/2 ton 360 if it passes all the big named high power diesels pulling heavier loads?? sounds like you'd be downgradeing... or you're dodge isn't quite what you say it is i was extremly happy witht hepower fo my V10 (mileage sucked) and as my PSD is breaking is i'm startign to really love the 17-20 mpg driving it like a port's car and after adding my 4in exhaust last night, WOW! major throttle responce/take off difference, and it sounds like it should say "kenworth" on the side of it __________________ Thanks to the companies that make it happen: Bilstein Shock Absorbers, Trail-Gear, Trent Fab, PRP Seats, Raceline Wheels, PSC, MJ Motorsports

07-30-2002, 11:36 AM	#13 (permalink)
Travis Waldher Pirate4x4 Addict! Join Date: May 2001 Member # 4878 Location: Bremerton, WA Posts: 7,523	Well.. the 360 hasn't had any problems pulling a load and out pulling an OLDER Diesel. Probably pre 1990's haven't been able to keep up. But I am probably also working the engine harder. Problems is.. the 1/2 ton aint up to the task of pulling a 30' gooseneck w/ two rigs on it. It pulls a 8-9,000lb trailer now and does it but doesn't care for it. (Max speed out of vantage on I-90 is 55mph in 2nd gear and I want to do my 70mph) It just can't be good for a 1/2 ton running gear, treating it like a 3/4 ton truck. I also get crappy fuel economy, from Moses lake to ellensburg I got around 6.5mpg at best towing that trailer. I normally get around 10mpg towing, 10mpg around town and 17mpg if I am lucky cruising at freeway speeds in OD. diesel is cheaper than Super unleaded usually. (my truck REQUIRES 92 octane or better). IMHO a V10, well.. poor fuel economy for the power you get out of it. Either you can do the V8 or go Diesel. So.. I'm leaning toward a 97 or so Dodge Cummins, 5 speed, or maybe a Ford Powerstroke 4 door as a close 2nd.

08-01-2002, 12:36 AM	#14 (permalink)
DSI Pirate4x4 Addict! Join Date: May 2000 Member # 920 Location: The Land of Debauchery (NV) Posts: 15,130	the V-10 got the same or or better mileage towing than your V8 did, and would pull vantage @ 70 with an equal load, higher gear's larger tire's and be in 3rd gear getting 8+mpg! now my new PSD with the PHAT exhaust, the wastegate mod, teh pump mod and a 125hp chip probably do 80 in OD __________________ Thanks to the companies that make it happen: Bilstein Shock Absorbers, Trail-Gear, Trent Fab, PRP Seats, Raceline Wheels, PSC, MJ Motorsports

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