What is the proper Ph for coolant in PSD

[Tankota]

I got the coolant test strip kit from napa and proceeded to do the test. Well...the ph was 11 so I added the ford coolant additive like I was told. This dropped it to a ph of about 8.5. Do I need to add another bottle to get it to ph 7?
I called the dealership but the diesel mechanic was out to lunch (literally...not mentally )
and so the "counter guy" said he thought the ph was supposed to be 7. Anyone know? Thanks.

PS The test strips test for 3 things, ph, coolant/water %, and nitrite (I think). Does the nitrite level matter?

[CSP]

PH levels tell you nothing about the coolant additive level. You really should get some Fleetguard test strips which actually measure the supplemental coolant additive level. PH only tells you if the coolant is acidic or alkaline. You can get Fleetguard strips at any International dealer or at Diesel Injection Service in Texas (mail order). www.dieselpage.com

[Tusker]

It is good that you are testing this. The additive is critical. You need to get the test strips though. The strips test for Glycol concentraion, Molybdate, and Nitrite. I am not sure what the pH is supposed to be (I would think between 7 and 8), but it takes three bottles of FW15 or 16 to charge an empty system. Too much of the stuff will cause problems as well. The test strips are like $5 for a pack. Well worth the trouble.

[Tankota]

Thanks for the info. I'll go get the FOrd test kit strips. The darn napa ones didn't come with anything for directions .

The system was totally flushed (new water pump) when I bought the truck about 4 months ago. I added one bottle since but haven't been able to figure out the napa test strips...hence the Q on the board here.

Thanks again.

[horse_with_no_name]

use something like NAPAKOOL or you'll be sorry! that you didn't. keeping the ph up to the proper level will keep the erosion of the cylinder liners at a minumum, and your PoS diesel happy.

[That Mick]

Originally posted by Tankota
Thanks for the info. I'll go get the FOrd test kit strips. The darn napa ones didn't come with anything for directions .

The International Fleetguard strips are about half the price, same stuff.

[CSP]

Originally posted by horse_with_no_name
use something like NAPAKOOL or you'll be sorry! that you didn't. keeping the ph up to the proper level will keep the erosion of the cylinder liners at a minumum, and your PoS diesel happy.

Wrong. PH level has nothing to do with prevention of cavitation (not erosion). Proper level of anti-cavitation supplemental coolant additive (SCA) is the key to preventing it. Ford and International both recommend a low silicate coolant either pre-charged with SCA or adding the proper level of SCA to a non pre-charged coolant. In addition the level of SCA must be monitored so that it is adequate. Adding too much can be harmful also. Personally I use non-extended life coolant that I buy from the International dealer and add the proper amount of FW16 (Ford's additive but purchased elsewhere) additive. SCA levels get checked every 15k and the entire coolant system gets flushed and filled every 30k. Both Ford and International recommend this regiment to prevent cavitation. My '86 F250 with a 6.9 has over 300k on the clock with no major engine work. Hope to get at least that many miles out of my Powerstroke.

[horse_with_no_name]

hmmm. lets see NAPAKOOL is a "sca", and if you keep your ph to the recommended level then you will be doing just what the manufacturer recommends. IN OTHER WORDS SERVICE YOUR PoS DIESELS COOLING SYSTEM YEARLY AND YOU PROBABLY WILL NEVER HAVE PROBLEMS WITH CAVITATION(WHICH CAUSES EROSION),OR ANY OTHER RELATED PROBLEMS. Or you could just buy a CUMMINS.......

[Tankota]

I'll be ordering the fleetguard strips today.

Funny thing... the ford dealership here in olympia said "we don't have those" when asked about test strips. That seems just weird to me.
Does it seem weird (or sneaky or ignorant) that they don't carry something to test the "very important" (as they said on the phone) additive levels?

[Tusker]

Originally posted by Tankota
Does it seem weird (or sneaky or ignorant) that they don't carry something to test the "very important" (as they said on the phone) additive levels?

Unfortunately, this is FMC we are talking about. Anything, no matter how rediculous, is possible with Ford. Remember, it is not really a Ford engine anyway. Your International dealer is the place to go for most of your engine stuff.

Originally posted by horse_with_no_name
......SERVICE YOUR PoS DIESELS COOLING SYSTEM YEARLY AND YOU PROBABLY WILL NEVER HAVE PROBLEMS WITH CAVITATION(WHICH CAUSES EROSION),.......

It is "corrosion" (chemically induced deterioration) , not "erosion" (physically induced deterioration). Although pH does matter, that is not the cause of pin-hole corrosion in diesels and is not what you are worried about (anymore than you would be with any other engine). The issue is the extreme heat generated at the cylinder walls (under extreme use) and the corresponding vaporization of the coolant adjacent to those walls. Under those extreme conditions, the "sca" is required to coat the cylinder walls because the coolant vaporizes and leaves the walls bare. The "sca" functions as a sacrcficial coating to protect them when the coolant can't.

[CSP]

Originally posted by horse_with_no_name
hmmm. lets see NAPAKOOL is a "sca", and if you keep your ph to the recommended level then you will be doing just what the manufacturer recommends.

Let me state this another way. You can adjust PH to be at whatever level is correct and still be way off on SCA levels. Like I've said before, Ph is a measure of whether the coolant (or any liquid for that matter) is acidic or alkaline. SCA as Tusker mentioned is a sacrificial coating on the cylinder walls. It absorbs the shock from air bubbles collapsing within the coolant as cylinder pressures rise and fall rapidly. It could be pure acid or pure alkaline and still be correct or incorrect. That's why I keep saying that Ph is not a good measure of SCA levels. The right test strips must be used which actually measure SCA levels in parts per million and NOT Ph. You're right though h_w_n_n, proper coolant maintenance is the key to long life with the PSD.

[That Mick]

At least the new PowerStroke will solve the cavitation/erosion bit. Just think, an actual diesel block, not a BOMB'ed gas casting.
This is gonna be good I wonder how high they can turn up the fuel before they start blowing trannies. (Again)

[Tankota]

Thanks for the info guys Nice explanations of cavitation etc


I found info on what the nitrite level should be and did another test strip...came out perfect! So I am set for a while.

[CSP]

Originally posted by The Mick
At least the new PowerStroke will solve the cavitation/erosion bit. Just think, an actual diesel block, not a BOMB'ed gas casting.
This is gonna be good I wonder how high they can turn up the fuel before they start blowing trannies. (Again)

The current Powerstroke isn't a gas casting converted to diesel. It's a Navistar engine, not Ford. Navistar hasn't made a gas engine in years and has never based a diesel engine on a converted gas engine. The problem is the block doesn't have replacable sleeves (wet sleeves vs dry sleeves) like the Cummins does. That doesn't make it a BOMB'ed gas casting though it does make it a PITA if it does go. It's not such a bad idea either with the proper systems to prevent cavitation. The 444T (powrestroke) was designed with a coolant filter/SCA system in place to take care of cavitation problems. Ford decided that it was something they could eliminate when they put it in their pickup trucks. That's where the bad idea is. Many Powrestroke owners (myself included) have added coolant filters with SCA tablets that gradually add the necessary additive. Makes it work like originally designed by Navistar.

Cummins engines experience cavitation also. With the Cummins you replace the sleeve when the cylinder walls finally get eaten through. This is a common occurence on big rigs. With the Powerstroke the entire block must be replaced thus the preventative care needed to prevent cavitation.

[That Mick]

Originally posted by cmegoup


The current Powerstroke isn't a gas casting converted to diesel. It's a Navistar engine, not Ford. .

No, and No.

The 6.9/7.3L PS is a direct derivation of the IH MV series gas motor. The MV gas displacements were 427 and 446 CID. The 7.3 diesel displaces 444 cubes. I can provide whatever proof you require.

It isn't a Navistar motor, either.

Designed by International Harvester, now produced by the International Truck and Engine Corperation.

The Navistar name has been dead for several years now.

[CSP]

Originally posted by The Mick

It isn't a Navistar motor, either.

Designed by International Harvester, now produced by the International Truck and Engine Corperation.

The Navistar name has been dead for several years now.

I'll believe you on the MV derivation. I will argue the Navistar thing though. The sticker on my passenger side valve cover (model year '97) very distinctly says "Navistar". Maybe the current ones say International, but the PSD has been around since mid-94. Why get caught up on semantics though anyhow?