burned out gear vendors overdrive.

[Slowzuki]

He just sounds old school to me. Cash and cheque works. He's right not to trust paypal, everybody gets dicked around by it. Signing up and trying to get your money back out of it is a huge waste of time for one customer. His mark up on the parts and labour isn't worth the hassle so suck it.

The local tractor mechanic is the same way. Cash and cheque keeps his overhead low and banking simple and he never gets a VISA payment reversed on him.

[standbypowerguy]

Originally Posted by Slowzuki

He just sounds old school to me. Cash and cheque works. He's right not to trust paypal, everybody gets dicked around by it. Signing up and trying to get your money back out of it is a huge waste of time for one customer. His mark up on the parts and labour isn't worth the hassle so suck it.

The local tractor mechanic is the same way. Cash and cheque keeps his overhead low and banking simple and he never gets a VISA payment reversed on him.

Understood, and I'm used to dealing with "old school" folks locally. But if you're going to advertise on the internet, you should be prepared for the ways of modern ecommerce. And he already had a PayPal account, his complaints had to do with the fees they charge. PayPal is a business, they have a right to charge for their services. I think their fees are reasonable, and don't mind seeing merchants mark up their prices to recover those fees. Cost of doing business in a manner that protects both parties. If you're a merchant and still want to keep prices low for local or old school customers, offer an equivalent discount for cash.

[GMGuy]

Just a quick word on paypal, they don't 'hold' the money, they just don't 'release' it to the account holder immediately depending on a myriad of factors. Just semantics. To the guy wanting to get his money, paypal is holding it hostage. To paypal, its semantics, the money is IN your paypal account...(silently--we're just not letting you remove it yet).

Since this guy does not use paypal,they are likely not "releasing" the funds for X days (I've heard 30 days in some cases, comes back to ebay time frames for buyers to dispute sales and other crap ebay/paypal is foisting as requirements on sellers to jump through). Just something else to consider in the big picture.


Alex.

[MrSammi]

So, you talk this guy into using Paypal--something he's probably not the most happy with. You have a series of 'slow' communications, repeatedly ask him to ship the order, and all this happened in a week? Sounds to me like you are the type of customer some vendors don't need. I've had FAR LESS communication and shipping delays in the order of MONTHS from some of the MOST RESPECTED vendors on THIS SITE.

You are dealing with a niche specialty. If the guy has the parts you want, waiting for him to be comfortable with PayPal is gonna be worth the few days of PATIENCE on your part. You must have noticed by now there's approximately 3 places in the country (in this thread anyways) that may be able to help you...not exactly like Sears & stuff. Oh, and if somebody went through the hassle to keep, store and sell rare parts for an out-of-production gear case, he's probably not a criminal. Also, just because he has a web site, doesn't mean the rest of what he does is of the highest tech available.

You have a set of expectations of vendors, those don't match how this guy does business. From his perspective, you're probably badgering him.

[standbypowerguy]

Originally Posted by MrSammi

So, you talk this guy into using Paypal--something he's probably not the most happy with. You have a series of 'slow' communications, repeatedly ask him to ship the order, and all this happened in a week? Sounds to me like you are the type of customer some vendors don't need. I've had FAR LESS communication and shipping delays in the order of MONTHS from some of the MOST RESPECTED vendors on THIS SITE.

You are dealing with a niche specialty. If the guy has the parts you want, waiting for him to be comfortable with PayPal is gonna be worth the few days of PATIENCE on your part. You must have noticed by now there's approximately 3 places in the country (in this thread anyways) that may be able to help you...not exactly like Sears & stuff. Oh, and if somebody went through the hassle to keep, store and sell rare parts for an out-of-production gear case, he's probably not a criminal. Also, just because he has a web site, doesn't mean the rest of what he does is of the highest tech available.

You have a set of expectations of vendors, those don't match how this guy does business. From his perspective, you're probably badgering him.

I didn't "talk him" into using PayPal, he agreed after I offered to pay the fees, and he already had an account. He originally wanted a postal money order, and there's no way I'm sending anything that liquid and irrevocable to someone on the other side of the country whose email I found in a forum post. Not with all the hucksters lurking out there.

He also didn't tell me up front that he was going to hold the shipment or give me an estimated ship date, had he done so I would have agreed, knowing it was only a few days. I have plenty of patience when you tell me what to expect up front.

I didn't ask him repeatedly to ship the order, I asked him civilly once, and instead of a "no", which I probably would have grudging accepted, the response I got was an unsolicited refund, and a follow-up email explaining that he refunded me because I was unhappy with a suddenly firm ship date of the next day. I responded, and while I did respectfully note my disappointment, I also offered to salvage the deal. I never heard back.

Very poorly handled on his part, in my opinion. All he did was waste both of our time and net himself an unhappy ex-customer. Instead of the good experience that should have been when someone offers to pay for the wares you advertise. As to the kind of customer I am? I'm the kind with money to spend, and I've already spent it elsewhere. He may have a nice product, but he's not the only game in town.

Now that I've related my experience accurately so others can judge for themselves if they wish to deal with this guy, I'll go crawl back under my rock to hide from the flames

[Harold Phipps]

Good idea to hide, because being the payee of pay pal SUCKS!
And also calling B.S. on asking ONCE!
at least if your OP was accurate.
I agree with the folks telling you, if the guy has the parts you need, some time getting them shouldn't be an issue.
Especially if only ONE week has transpired. Holy crap, do you think the guy sits at his computer just WAITING on your e-mail? Some people only check e-mail one time per day. By the looks of your original post, it looks like you expect a return e-mail in minutes or hours. A one person shop wouldn't have the computer idling on e-mail all day just for orders and questions. One or two times daily is plenty to check e-mails, unless you have nothing going on in the shop or your life.
I'd have refunded your "money" too.

[standbypowerguy]

WTF, do I have to cut 'n paste the email chain? Guess I've found where the neanderthals lurk...

[r08ert209cali]

Originally Posted by standbypowerguy

Cost of doing business in a manner that protects both parties.

Paypal dont protect shit. In fact they are rip off artist. I hate paypal I have lost so much time and money to that shitty company. Wait till they lock your account and you cant do shit about it.

[MrSammi]

Originally Posted by standbypowerguy

WTF, do I have to cut 'n paste the email chain? Guess I've found where the neanderthals lurk...

We are all coming to the same conclusion having read your original post. Maybe you should go re-read what you wrote, and then tell us that it doesn't sound like you were impatient, having 3-4 complete conversations (send/respond) within one week. I made one comment that didn't seem to take with you... you have 'your' expectations, this guy is different. Is his business run in a manner likely to attract 90% of the folks with Gear Vendors units?... maybe not. I'm glad you found and have ordered your parts elsewhere. Good Luck with your project!

Oh, and if you convinced him to use paypal by offering to pay his fees, that is called 'talking him into using it'.

[standbypowerguy]

You're right, my expectations were different than his. I expected him to ship when he received the payment notice from PayPal. This is the norm when dealing online. Waiting's not the issue, it's the lack of thorough communication that's the issue. It's agreeing to accept PayPal, but not telling me he's going to hold the shipment until he can transfer the funds to his bank. If he'd told me that up front, instead of when I sent him a follow-up message simply asking for a tracking number, I'd have had no problem. Issuing a refund out of the blue when I followed up explaining the problem from my perspective and asked him politely to reconsider is also the issue. From my perspective, they guy's hard to deal with.

So I figured I would relate my experience here for others to see, and help them make an informed decision as to whether to deal with this guy or not. Assistance is one purpose of a forum, right? Had someone who had a similar experience done so prior to my contacting him, I might have had second thoughts, or at least gone into it knowing which questions to ask. And what have I gotten for my trouble? Some constructive criticism which I respect, flames which I can handle, and being called a liar, which is completely out of line. ("calling B.S. on asking ONCE!")

Kind of sours me on the whole experience. Are you folks worth hangin' with, or should I cut my losses and take my experience and skills elsewhere? The jury's still out. But it's folks like you, MrSammi, that make me pause to reconsider.

And one other thing... I've heard a lot of PayPal bashing, some of it probably very well deserved, but not one online alternative proposed. Has anyone ever used Amazon or Google's payment services? Anyone know of any other online payment services? Are any of them better than PayPal?

[Harold Phipps]

In your own post on 7-29-2010 you state;
"Two days later I hadn't heard back so I e-mailed him asking for a tracking number,,,,,,,,,"
THEN, 2 paragraphs later you state;
" So I e-mailed him and "nicely" asked him to ship,,,,,,,,,"
The way I count that is TWO times you ADMIT to asking to ship.
WTF do you think asking for a tracking number 2 whole days later infers?
I didn't call you a liar, I just pointed out an OBVIOUS inconsistency in your story.
Sorry you are offended so easily.
BTW, how fast did the other transaction from a different vendor for the same parts take?

[standbypowerguy]

I'm not easily offended, but I do think you need to choose your words more wisely. You did it again.

that is TWO times you ADMIT

That statement assumes I am lying, which is calling me a liar.

Here's a better explanation of what happened, paraphrasing the email exchange:

After I sent the money via PayPal, I hadn't heard anything, so I sent a short message that said "Please email me the tracking number." At that point my expectation was that he had already shipped, or was about to.

I got a reply to the effect of "Hold on, I'm not shipping until PayPal releases my money, which can take several days." Which is when I got concerned, so I called PayPal.

After speaking with them, I followed up with "I called PayPal to get the straight scoop because I never heard of them holding money. They explained that the delay is due to the time it takes for an electronic funds transfer between PayPal and your bank to clear. It's no different than if I had given you a certified check, you'd have to wait for it to clear before you could draw on the funds. They also suggested I open a dispute case, but I'm not that worried. Please reconsider shipping before the payment clears since it's not my fault, it's just the way the banking system works. The funds are already in your PayPal account, and therefore guaranteed."

The only reply I got was "Refunding your payment because you're not happy with a ship date of tomorrow." That and the PayPal refund notice, of course.

This is essentially how it went down. Weird, huh?

I called the other vendor on the phone late Friday. They took my MasterCard over the phone, and will ship UPS on Monday. It will take a week for a ground package from the west coast to reach me, which gives me time to find a good driveshaft shop in the Pittburgh area. It's been a long time since I've done driveline mods like this, and the place I used years ago is closed. Hopefully they've just moved to better digs.

Whenever possible, pay for a phone or mail order with MasterCard, they have the best terms for reversing charges if your stuff doesn't show. Saved my dad's bacon 30+ years ago when J.C. Whitney went bankrupt while we had a parts order pending for the CJ5 project I cut my teeth on. Had a lot of fun in the woods with that one, pulled many a truck out of a jam.

[y2knole]

wait, I thought this thread was about an overdrive unit???

[crashnzuk]

Originally Posted by y2knole

wait, I thought this thread was about an overdrive unit???

It is, or it was/is. Personally, I don't know why everyone wants to do business via email. If you actually call someone on the phone and talk to them, you will have all of you questions answered in a few minutes instead of emailing back and forth for days while nothing is getting done. But that's just me
Travis..

[Klez]

I found this thread over a year ago and just found it again today with a google search.

I have a GV unit that is almost new. I mounted on my race car to try and make it go faster, but it didn't work out so I removed it. I have been wanting to mount it behind my 4l80E on my dually, but GV wants $900 for the tube. If I send them my old one they will take either $300-$350 off. Anyway I called the guy and he did not have the part, but seemed like a nice guy. Also I noticed he is the guy on ebay selling most of the GV parts.

Where is this other place you got your parts from?

[aaron t]

Originally Posted by three diesels

Hi everone im new here,and the reason im posting is, Ive been reading the post on this topic, I have lots of new and used parts for GEAR VENDOR UNITS.Im not afiliated in any way with GEAR VENDORS. Here is a little history on the Laycock overedrive,Laycock is long gone,they went out of bussiness years ago,A company named GKN bought the name[laycock and all parts and equipment] and built overdrives 30+ years.But july 08 they also gave up building overdrives and sold all the rights to GEAR VENDOR.GEAR VENDOR for the past 25 years bought all the overdrives from GKN. So now parts
are hard to come by. If any one needs parts or electronincs kits i have them
email me at gpyzak@ix.netcom.com

this is the guy i ordered my parts from. they aren't "cheap". for a rebuild kit with the clutch and the o-rings it was about $300 shipped. and he took credit card just fine. got here in a week or so. no big deal. and helpful on the phone.

not sure if this is the same fella y'all have been talking about. i have yet to tear into it, ironically, i was about to go outside and brave the 106* heat and get started in a few minutes.

i will let you guys know how it goes.

[aaron t]

so its all rebuilt. i am having issues with the electronics for the control unit. it seems to be acting a bit strange.

also had to go get the slip yoke seal from the local parts store, but it was only $7. so no biggie.

[aaron t]

apparently the electronics were indeed fine. it runs like a champ. this overdrive makes this truck run like a new rig. only really took about 5 hours of total work time to rebuild. very simple unit.

pisses me off that gear vendors is so proprietary. but the dude that sent me the parts was a lifesaver. i recommend him. he is the original responder to this post.

so far so good. still have some leaks, but that is because the threads were stripped out of the main unit where the oil sump bolts in place. it really is a piece of crap. i can't believe gear vendors gets over 3k for one of these things. it ain't built like no atlas. thats for sure.

[three diesels]

Well,glad to help aaron,Yes the parts arent cheap! they come from England.And the shipping is exspensive.NOW.standbypowerguy,You turned into a jerk ,after I told you i would only ship when paypal realesed the funds to my (checking account).And then you threatened me.so i promptly refunded you money.I dont need to deal with a jerk.... If you want to talk trash go ahead.

[Harold Phipps]

Don't blame you at all !!!!!

[DrJekl]

Great post! Glad I found it!

[uglydukwling]

Here's an update on Gear Vendors.

The GV overdrive in my motor home grenaded. (Behind a 120 hp Perkins and Chrysler Loadflight) The sun gear was what let go. I found a few pieces that could have been parts of teeth, but mostly it was just filings. Naturally, this damaged other parts.

My overdrive was a divorced unit that mounted in place of the centre hanger bearing. It was a J-type (older design)

I called GV and they told me that they haven't serviced the J-type in many years. They offered to exchange my od for the new, improved P-type for $1700. That's quite a jump in price compared to what I see in this thread. I don't know how much of it is due to the fact I'm trading in a J rather than a P and how much is inflation. They also said I'd need a new output yoke, a new speedometer cable , an maybe a new input u-joint. The P is longer than the J, so I'd also have to have one of the driveshafts shortened. So the total price is something over 2 grand.

I may end up going for the exchange since GV seems to be the only game in town now, but I'm still hoping an alternative will turn up. I did find a Mitchell, but it needed work and parts for them aren't available any more either.

Another complication is that I'm in Canada (southern Ontario) and UPS and border crossings don't mix well. I'd much rather deal over the counter with a dealer. GV did give me the names of a few dealers within driving distance, but the closest one didn't exist. The others sounded like they would be just acting as shipping agents and didn't really want to get involved. Not very confidence-inspiring. Does anybody know of a dealer in Ontario who actually knows something about GV?

As for Volvo overdrives, I have Laycock J-type, but the internal parts are just different enough to not fit the GV Laycock J-type case. The GV front housing (adaptor) does however bolt up to the Volvo case so it would be possible to use the Volvo od complete. To use it, I'd have to have have a new input shaft made since the GV shaft won't fit the Volvo. The other problem is that the Volvo is shorter overall than the GV, so it would be necessary to have a new driveshaft made. And then I'd still have a J-type. The one machine shop I tried told me it wouln't be worth it and the exhange unit from GV sounded like a good deal. Maybe I should get a second opinion. Later Volvos did use a P-type, but I have no experience with them, or with GV P-types.