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Old 11-10-2008, 09:28 AM   #1 (permalink)
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burned out gear vendors overdrive.

this is potentially a really newb post, as this is my first actual "tow rig".

86 ford f250 4x4 with the crappy ifs 44 front.
c6 trans, borg warner tcase,
6.9l diesel engine.

and now the problem...
it has a gear vendors overdrive unit. for those of you that know it replaces the back half of the bw tcase and turns the original 2 piece drive shaft into one long single.

anyway, i bought the truck under the auspices that the "reverse was out" in the c6. so i swapped in another c6 that i got ahold of that i knew to be in good working order. after 3 solid days of getting it swapped in (kind of new to that world) i tried backing it out of the driveway....same problem. turns out the gear vendors overdrive was totally wasted. this was first suspected when i drained it and black stinky fluid came out. it smelled like wet burnt clutch. i confirmed that the unit was dead when i was able to put the truck in reverse when i put it in 4wd.

i guess what i have learned is that the gv has a conical "overrunning" clutch for the reverse direction, and a hydrostatic planetary system for fwd overdrive and for non od it runs off of a sprague gear. that is why it would work in fwd and not reverse.

i called gv themselves and they will not sell parts. i have to send in the old unit for a core and they will send me a new one for $800.

my question is this, has any one ever "fixed" it your self? is it even possible? i have spent a few days already searching the e-web and can't find any record of anyone trying.

so i have 3 options:
1. spend the money
2. swap in an np 205 and have only the 3 speed c6 that will only let the truck do about 60mph max on the high way
3. pull it apart and try to reconstruct it. but i was wondering if any of you have ever done this and if you have pics or anything.

flame suit on, any help with or without help would be greatly appreciated.
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Old 11-10-2008, 09:33 AM   #2 (permalink)
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I think volvo sedans use the same unit. older 240 and 740 series with a stick. I just got rid of one a year ago.
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Old 11-10-2008, 09:41 AM   #3 (permalink)
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cary, was it the same as a "laycock" unit? this volvo unit has a separate switch no? was this a factory option? could i scavenge a boneyard unit and swap it in?
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Old 11-10-2008, 12:07 PM   #4 (permalink)
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If they're willing to swap you out a new or rebuilt one for $800 that is the way I'd go. Unless the truck is a pile and not worth putting $800 into it, you'd be time and money ahead to reinstall what is already there. If it took you 3 days to install a c6, how long will this thing sit if you try to rig it?
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Old 11-10-2008, 12:48 PM   #5 (permalink)
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it will sit forever if i try and "rig" it

for now it at least drives. actually it isn't a pile. i paid $750 for it and it runs well. seems to get at least 18mpg in town, and 11 to 12 when i towed with it this weekend. the engine is a crate rebuild from ford, only 60k on the engine. body is straight, frame is not bent or bowed. it has a banks turbo on it, and a goose neck hitch in the bed. also it is the old extra cab.

all in all it was a steal, but now i don't really have an extra 8 hundy for the overdrive. that was why i was exploring the option of the mp 205, which i have at my disposal. but then i have no overdrive, which can be a bit of a pain.
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Old 11-10-2008, 01:00 PM   #6 (permalink)
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Swap in a np205, then regear the diffs or go with a bigger tire for more top end. Heck it has a turbo so no worry on power.
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Old 11-10-2008, 02:05 PM   #7 (permalink)
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For 800 bucks Id have them fix it and that truck will be killer , turbo, c-6 and the overdrive, If you have to wait a month or whatever to round up the cash i think thats easier than changing the transfer case and gears and all that crap
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Old 11-10-2008, 04:14 PM   #8 (permalink)
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I have not seen any information on how to do it yourself. One of the biggest things that I've seen with the GV units is that you must religiously change the fluid in them.

800 for the rebuild is reasonable if I'm not misaken that will also come with a warranty. This is also cheaper than they usually sell for on ebay which is yet another option. They are reasonable units if you keep up on the fluid changes.

A 4th option for you is a stick shift conversion but that is more expensive than fixing the GV unit.

The GV does not deal well with compression braking when in OD and may people grenade them this way with exhaust brakes. because 2nd over is the speed that they want to go down the hill.

You can pull it apart and if the internals are in reasonable shape you might be able to get a transmission parts house that will help you figure out which clutches, bands etc will be needed to make it all work.
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Old 11-11-2008, 05:19 AM   #9 (permalink)
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what will happen if you keep driving it as is? will it eventually take out the planetaries that let you go forward and leave you motionless? it doesnt sound like such a big deal to me to have to pop it into 4wd whenever you need reverse.

i think if it were me id fill it with good fluid,and run it till it pops,then swap in the c6/205.

or at least run it as is till you got the $800 to swap it out
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Old 11-14-2008, 08:54 AM   #10 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by nightcrawlers View Post
what will happen if you keep driving it as is? will it eventually take out the planetaries that let you go forward and leave you motionless? it doesnt sound like such a big deal to me to have to pop it into 4wd whenever you need reverse.

i think if it were me id fill it with good fluid,and run it till it pops,then swap in the c6/205.

or at least run it as is till you got the $800 to swap it out
i think the planetaries are gone. you only really loose the overdrive. my understanding is that you will pretty much always have un-overdriven fwd gears, as the 1/1 drive is done by a sprague.

i however don't really know what a sprague is?
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Old 11-14-2008, 09:32 AM   #11 (permalink)
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upgrade to a US Gear Dual Range unit!

actually $800 is not too bad of a price for an overdrive. suck they wont sell parts, but its either that or move to a different solution.
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Old 11-14-2008, 10:15 PM   #12 (permalink)
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swap out for a rebuilt GV. For the price your ahead, rather then swap everything out, loose the OD, Fuelmilage will suffer, and you will need to re do the drivelines. Save up for the 800 bucks and have a killer rig!
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Old 11-17-2008, 10:44 AM   #13 (permalink)
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yeah, all told, i bought the truck running and drivable for $750. it will most likely need a full brake job on front and rear, which is less than $200. so i will be in it for <$2k for a extra cab long bed well running ford diesel.
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Old 12-25-2008, 09:18 PM   #14 (permalink)
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We have a GV behind our E4OD in a '95 powerstroke.

had some problems with it as well. They guys at GV are a little grouchy and hard to deal with but I talked with him long enough to convince him I was capable of rebuilding it and he sold me what I wanted.
It is mostly o-rings, the sprag, and clutch face. It isn't hard at all.

Layloc was bought by or became GV.

I have read much about them for a couple years but last I knew GV was the only one that allowed you to keep moving if it fails.

not had much luck with the GV electronics they seem to be a little testy but I think the majority of that problem is the crappy wiring they are trying to use.

Rest of the pics
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Old 12-28-2008, 01:12 PM   #15 (permalink)
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The one we had in a 1999 stoke we used to deliver campers with started making alot of noise. I inspected it and found last tech to service it used 90w gear lube instead of the atf specified for it. I pretty much destroyed it from inside out. We contacted GV and they where willing to sell us parts to repair but with all the gears and the back half case all being junk. It was much cheaper to get reman unit with warranty.
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Old 01-02-2009, 10:04 AM   #16 (permalink)
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Gear vendor overdrive


Hi everone im new here,and the reason im posting is, Ive been reading the post on this topic, I have lots of new and used parts for GEAR VENDOR UNITS.Im not afiliated in any way with GEAR VENDORS. Here is a little history on the Laycock overedrive,Laycock is long gone,they went out of bussiness years ago,A company named GKN bought the name[laycock and all parts and equipment] and built overdrives 30+ years.But july 08 they also gave up building overdrives and sold all the rights to GEAR VENDOR.GEAR VENDOR for the past 25 years bought all the overdrives from GKN. So now parts
are hard to come by. If any one needs parts or electronincs kits i have them
email me at gpyzak@ix.netcom.com
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Old 01-03-2009, 09:41 AM   #17 (permalink)
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if you are selling your own stuff (just a few parts) move this to the classifieds, this is general 4x4 TECH

If you are a business or a vendor, get a yellow star before you pimp your shit and move this to classifieds or the vendors forum, this is still general 4x4 TECH.

welcome to hell
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Old 01-05-2009, 10:58 AM   #18 (permalink)
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Quote:
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if you are selling your own stuff (just a few parts) move this to the classifieds, this is general 4x4 TECH

If you are a business or a vendor, get a yellow star before you pimp your shit and move this to classifieds or the vendors forum, this is still general 4x4 TECH.

welcome to hell
whoa...... hold off on the guy.... he simply added in he's a connection to
get parts for gear vendor units................ it's his 2nd post................
Don't go all teenage-aingst on the guy... yet...

So, Mr Gearvendorpartsman: excellent post, and thanks for being here.

--Although if one wishes to "sell" or, intend to sell on Pirate, you'll need
to pony up and pay for a seller's star.

Personally, I'm not too sure many on here would need a large-supply of
parts for GV units, but it's always welcome to have another parts source.

--Sherpa
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Old 08-11-2009, 12:41 PM   #19 (permalink)
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how did i not ever see this reply? i just emailed this guy. i hope this didn't drive him away. i cannot afford $900 for a replacement unit the douchebags at gear vendors want.

i hate it when they won't let me fix my own shit. i have never sued anyone for helping me out.
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Old 08-11-2009, 01:02 PM   #20 (permalink)
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upgrade to a US Gear Dual Range unit!

actually $800 is not too bad of a price for an overdrive. suck they wont sell parts, but its either that or move to a different solution.
Better find a good used one. US GEAR no longer offers them and has a very limited parts supply on hand. Not even enough to assemble a whole unit as per the tech guy I talked with. I've seen a few on Ebay.. They are a lot stronger than the Gear Vendors unit.

From what I've read, the GV units are not suitable for medium/heavy duty applications.
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Old 08-11-2009, 02:57 PM   #21 (permalink)
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well, that is my other question.

i have a stock borg warner tcase, i can just put in, and get a lengthened drive shaft. cost me $50 bucks to do it. and done.

but no overdrive. it will be cheaper to switch to some 3.54's in the diffs than replace the od at their price.
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Old 08-12-2009, 07:22 PM   #22 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by three diesels View Post

Hi everone im new here,and the reason im posting is, Ive been reading the post on this topic, I have lots of new and used parts for GEAR VENDOR UNITS.Im not afiliated in any way with GEAR VENDORS. Here is a little history on the Laycock overedrive,Laycock is long gone,they went out of bussiness years ago,A company named GKN bought the name[laycock and all parts and equipment] and built overdrives 30+ years.But july 08 they also gave up building overdrives and sold all the rights to GEAR VENDOR.GEAR VENDOR for the past 25 years bought all the overdrives from GKN. So now parts
are hard to come by. If any one needs parts or electronincs kits i have them
email me at gpyzak@ix.netcom.com
thank g-d i found this post again. i had no idea that this guy had replied, and he left here due to the totally unwarranted flaming above.

he is extremely helpful, and cheap. this dude is not some rock crawler vendor with yet another set of dana 60 steering arms that he ripped off from someone else's design.

he was a dude with a small business, he saw my post and thought, "hey i can help this guy". and in typical overly zealous pirate fashion, the flame-fest began.

maybe we can extend a little grace to a vendor when he is trying to help someone out? he wasn't pimping random shit that no one asked about. he SPECIFICALLY had what i needed.

i just got off the phone with him. he can send me the parts for $250 to totally rebuild my unit. or he said he will rebuild it for $560 shipped. which is way cheaper than "the man" wants for it. this is the kind of thing pirate used to be about. but clearly we need to support our bling vendors and keep these small guys out that want to help and whatnot.
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Old 08-12-2009, 08:14 PM   #23 (permalink)
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No shit huh? I didn't see that post before either, but it sounded like he was trying to help a guy out.
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Old 08-13-2009, 11:06 AM   #24 (permalink)
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talked to him on the phone yesterday,

he said, "its pretty hard to rebuild it yourself, but if you have a good hydro press it can be done, and if you get into a bind, call me and i will walk you through it."

yep he is definately worth flaming here.

if you have an overdrive, and it is burned up, this dude is your man. calling gear vendors is totally useless.
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Old 07-29-2010, 09:35 AM   #25 (permalink)
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Gear Vendors Overdrive Rebuilder gpyzak@ix.netcom.com

I found this guy very hard to deal with. He's a vendor, his website is http://www.maximum--overdrive.com/.

I got a very limited response when I first contacted him via email. There was no mention of his web site in his initial response. Hell, he didn't even leave his name. His second message was slow in coming, but at least he linked to the web site and left his contact info.

He doesn't accept credit cards, wants paid by check. There's no way I'm sending a check to someone on the other side of the country that I had to pry contact info out of. He also doesn't like PayPal, but agreed to accept it after I offered to reimburse his fee.

After another delay, he sent me an a PayPal invoice for the parts I needed. I promptly paid it. Two days later I hadn't heard back, so I emailed him again, asking for a tracking number. He replies, telling me he's not shipping until PayPal releases the hold on my payment.

Huh? I never heard of such a thing, and I've never had anyone, merchant or individual, hold a shipment waiting on money from PayPal. Worst of all, he didn't tell me about the delay up front. At this point, I'm a week in from my initial email, the money's been withdrawn from my account, and I still don't have a tracking number or even a firm ship date.

So I called PayPal. The nice lady I spoke to explains that PayPal doesn't hold money, but if funds are transferred to a bank account, there is an electronic funds transfer delay of a couple days. I've experienced this before myself, and its no big deal. She wanted me to file a dispute, but I decide not to, and to play nice.

So I email this guy back and explain it, and nicely ask him to ship my order. A few hours later, I get a refund. I guess he doesn't want my business. It's wonderful to know he can afford to turn away customers. I wish I could do that.

The whole experience was disappointing, a total waste of my time and his. YMMV, but I think I'll steer clear, and advise anyone who reads to do the same. What a shame, he offers a clean, simple controls package that would've worked perfectly with my C6, and at a reasonable price. Guess I'm still looking...
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