powerstroke vs. cummins - Pirate4x4.Com : 4x4 and Off-Road Forum

jeepeater302 · 09-02-2002, 08:45 PM

Im looking at getting a 97' Powerstroke. My dads got a 92' 12 valve cummins. He says that the powerstroke is a terrible diesel and that cummins is the only true diesel. All his friends have told me that i should just go with cummins, but they never tell me why the powerstroke is shitty. Anyone have any thoughts to back this up or to go along with it? Just trying to get some opinions straight from the people that use them everyday. Thanks!

dog walker · 09-02-2002, 10:03 PM

Quote:

He says that the powerstroke is a terrible diesel

Ok, I'd never buy a Ford, but thats just because I don't like the looks of them much, but to say that a power stroke is a terrible engine is funny! I'd rather have a Cummins because I'd rather have a Dodge than a Ford, but even I know that Powerstrokes are great engines.. You're Pappa is prety much hard headed and wrong....

DSI · 09-02-2002, 10:49 PM

:deadhorse:

Tusker · 09-03-2002, 07:21 AM

I feel the same as dog walker, except that I have a Ford and wouldn't buy a Dodge. My preference is based on the cab and chasis, not the engine. Both the Cummins and PSD have awesome power, mileage, and reliability. No matter which one people buy, they love it. So buy what you want, unless of course dad and his friends want to pitch in .....

jp junkie · 09-03-2002, 10:00 AM

Ive had several dodge diesels all 12v motors. Some real fast and some real slow (stock). The last 12v 5 speed 4x4 I had, was a 98 dually with 128kmi. It was one of the most powerful stock trucks I have ever driven. The fuel gauge sucked, the infinity radio didn't work in FM mode, and the friken ABS light stayed on. Right now I have a 99.5 Super duty PSD 6 speed 4x4 with 75kmi. The turning radius sucks, the driver's seat is falling appart, the gear shifter knob has fallen off twice, the air bag light now comes on and stays on and the fit and finish sucks. Its not all bad news, I like the truck, it has good power (stock) and tows my junk just fine. Given a choice, I would go with another Dodge. Oh BTW, why jeepeater? Is it because jeeps are such bad ass rigs, that is the bench mark you are trying to convince us you reached?

Doc Johnson · 09-03-2002, 02:27 PM

I have a 99 Ford F350 crew cab dually with the Power Stroke. It has awsome power. It pulls my dads 11,000 lb boat with ease. I personally think Dodges are hidious so every one has their own opinion. Get what you want and they are both great engines.

jeepeater302 · 09-03-2002, 07:17 PM

hey, thanks for the response...i appreciate everyones input!

KMAN · 09-03-2002, 07:43 PM

IMHO it comes down to the best deal. Look hard and buy low.

I am just waiting for a Toyota 1 ton diesel, till then I will drive my PSD I bought at 0%.

Eskimo · 09-04-2002, 05:46 AM

Toyota 1-ton diesel... good thing you have a reliable truck now, 'cuz it'll be a while!

In the ealier years, I'd get the Dodge... The 12v motor has TONS of easily unlocked power in it, and is stone-reliable. The truck that's wrapped around the engine, however... well...

If I had to get a '02, it would be the duramax...
'03? That new Dodge is tempting. I don't need 4 completely full-size doors, the interior is nicer (but still not as nice as the GMC), but then again, I drive a Cruiser, not a Jeep, so I'm kinda a sucker for the oddball.

JR2 · 09-04-2002, 01:45 PM

The Cummins engine is far superior to the International engine in the fords. The Cummis has less moving parts, bigger connecting rods, bigger berrings and has a longer time to rebuild than the Ford motor. My Dad has had two Dodges, one 92 and one 98.5. Both have been very good trucks, the 92 is still running and has 130K on it. Still gets 20 mpg and shows no sign of dieing. The 98.5 has almost 100 K on it and still runs fine. The body and interior are still like new (except for coffee stains, etc). I have a 2001 Dodge that does not have enough miles on it to comment, but I can say that I have only been to the dealer once and that was for a computer reflash. I have chosen to modify my truck and it is now putting out approx 450 hp/900 tq to the ground. Its not set up to tow, but I could change a few things and this truck could two with 400 hp.

That Mick · 09-04-2002, 02:17 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by JR2
The Cummins engine is far superior to the International engine in the fords. The Cummis has less moving parts, bigger connecting rods, bigger berrings and has a longer time to rebuild than the Ford motor.

Ok, I would HOPE a 6 cylinder would have fewer moving parts than an 8, whats your point???

Show me a MV/T444/PS/6.9/7.3 with failed connecting rods. I can show you a pile of grenaded 6B rods.

Longer rebuild time??? I've seen dozens of those motors go 250,000 plus miles in medium duty trucks, trucks that tare more then you'll ever gross.

5.9ctd_fj40 · 09-05-2002, 12:17 PM

i think he meant life-to overhaul. powerstrokes make decent numbers but cant handle being turned up powerwise too much. they are not rated as a medium heavy duty diesel engine like the 5.9 the cummins is a tried an true engine. built in piston cooling nozzles, oilcooler, humongous rods and bearings and lastly almost a 5" stroke. what does the powerstroke have for stroke? i know it aint close to the cummins. the 6 cylinder design offers more efficiency. i guy know has several 2000 and newer f 350s with cummins 5.9s in them. why? powerstokes cranks are breaking left and right. he pulls backhoes and real heavy equipment. these wernt stock powerstrokes either. bottom line V8 diesels suck. anybody that thinks otherwise is ignorant. they should put dt466's in f 350s those things rock!

oh yah post some pics of disentegrated cummins rods please id love to see em. check out www.fordcummins.com the proper way to build a ford!

fj40charles · 09-05-2002, 01:12 PM

PSD and Cummins are both good engines. Personal perference toward the Cummins for durability. Cummins is better for bombing. Not too many PSD motors will stay together when they're over 500 HP. Many Cummins are at 600+ HP and staying together.

Check out www. turbodieselregister.com if you want more info. on the Cummins.

Charles

Hillbilly · 09-05-2002, 02:07 PM

I think for what MOST people use their truck for, you can't go wrong with either. Just pick one. Both are proven, both will do the job. It's all up to personal preference after that.

If I had the $$$ I'd put the cummins in a CC Ford and call it done. That would be my ideal truck.

jp junkie · 09-05-2002, 03:00 PM

Quote:

Longer rebuild time??? I've seen dozens of those motors go 250,000 plus miles in medium duty trucks, trucks that tare more then you'll ever gross.

In late 1998 I sold a 94 Ram 5 Speed CTD with 475 thousand miles. To date the truck has 750 thousand miles. The injection pump was replaced at 350,000 my bad (never used fuel conditioner), and the NV4500 has been fixed (5 gear) 3 times. This truck is constantly hauling about 8k lbs. The engine is still strong, so how long will it go?

I hope I have the same luck with my PSD.

KMAN · 09-05-2002, 05:24 PM

[To date the truck has 750 thousand miles. The injection pump was replaced at 350,000 my bad (never used fuel conditioner),

750k....I never heard of a PSD going this high, even highway car hauler dudes.

02 PSD

5.9ctd_fj40 · 09-05-2002, 08:54 PM

i used to work at cummins. i personally saw several car hauler guys with hi-mileage dodges. one had close to 600,000 and had a new head gasket installed. old one eroded. you could still see the crosshatch in the cylinders. the others were in the 400,000 range.

fj40charles · 09-06-2002, 07:24 AM

400K to 600K miles on a Cummins is not big news. They've been doing this for a very long time. The very ridgid design of the I6 and having more bearing surface area than any V8 engine, and big a$$ connecting rod and crank leads to long service life.

For raw grunt, you will not beat an inline 6 motor. The majority of the OTR trucks have inline motors for the very reason. Also, makes it easy to turbo charge too.

Charles

jp junkie · 09-06-2002, 01:17 PM

Quote:

750k....I never heard of a PSD going this high, even highway car hauler dudes.

You are friken kidding me, right?

Oxjockey · 09-06-2002, 01:44 PM

I think the coolest thing about the Cummins is that it's a real diesel engine that they wrapped a pickup truck around. The V8s have no other application than a pickup truck.

If it can be used in industial applications, I shouldn't be able to break it.

Bryan

fj40charles · 09-06-2002, 01:52 PM

Also, remember you can get a Cummins or a CAT as an option on the larger Ford F650 and F750 trucks. The 7.3 liter PSD is the "standard" motor. Just why would Ford be offering a Cummins or a CAT as an option? Do they know something we don't know?????

CK

That Mick · 09-06-2002, 04:26 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Oxjockey
I think the coolest thing about the Cummins is that it's a real diesel engine that they wrapped a pickup truck around. The V8s have no other application than a pickup truck.

If it can be used in industial applications, I shouldn't be able to break it.

Bryan

Um, where do I start.

International Harvester S-series trucks
International 4700 trucks
International 7400s
Assorted air compressors, power units, and pumps.

the PS ISN'T a verdamnent automotive motor!!!

Oxjockey · 09-06-2002, 05:56 PM

They all use that Navistar motor?

I mean, I know they make other diesels...

Bryan

That Mick · 09-06-2002, 06:44 PM

yep
the old PS is a clone of the T444E International medium truck motor.
The new PS is a clone of the VT365 medium duty motor.

and, yep, you can get a 444/365 in industrial apps too. Not the most common, cause you rarely need the power these motors develop, but you can order them.

horse_with_no_name · 09-06-2002, 08:21 PM

CHECK OUT WWW.TURBODIESELREGISTER.COM FOR A MILLION MILE CUMMINS POWERED DODGE THAT WAS USED FOR HOTSHOT PULLING, JUST DO A SEARCH OVER THERE!!!!!!!!!!! AND YES FORD DOES KNOW SOMETHING ABOUT DIESELS OR THEY WOULD NOT BE PUTTING A CUMMINS IN THEIR HD TRUCKS. TRUCKS RATED FOR TWICE WHAT A DODGE/CTD IS RATED FOR AND AVAILABLE IN A 3/4-1 TON PACKAGE!!!!!!!!!!
OOPS....... SORRY ABOUT THE CAPS.

09-02-2002, 08:45 PM	#1 (permalink)
jeepeater302 Registered User Join Date: Feb 2002 Member # 10339 Location: Kokomo, IN Posts: 38	powerstroke vs. cummins Im looking at getting a 97' Powerstroke. My dads got a 92' 12 valve cummins. He says that the powerstroke is a terrible diesel and that cummins is the only true diesel. All his friends have told me that i should just go with cummins, but they never tell me why the powerstroke is shitty. Anyone have any thoughts to back this up or to go along with it? Just trying to get some opinions straight from the people that use them everyday. Thanks! __________________ Aaron 86' BroncoII-beefed 302, 74' bronco chassis, dana 44 front, ford 9" rear, 4.56 gears, factory L/S all around, 36X14.50 dirt grips Current Project: "Jeepeater" 87' ranger short bed cab 1/2 TBI 350 1 ton Full width axles divorced 205 external cage

09-02-2002, 10:49 PM	#3 (permalink)
DSI Pirate4x4 Addict! Join Date: May 2000 Member # 920 Location: The Land of Debauchery (NV) Posts: 15,134	:deadhorse: __________________ Thanks to the companies that make it happen: Bilstein Shock Absorbers, Trail-Gear, Trent Fab, PRP Seats, Raceline Wheels, PSC, MJ Motorsports

09-03-2002, 07:21 AM	#4 (permalink)
Tusker Registered User Join Date: Jan 2001 Member # 2752 Location: Fairfield, CA Posts: 2,043	I feel the same as dog walker, except that I have a Ford and wouldn't buy a Dodge. My preference is based on the cab and chasis, not the engine. Both the Cummins and PSD have awesome power, mileage, and reliability. No matter which one people buy, they love it. So buy what you want, unless of course dad and his friends want to pitch in ..... __________________ 86 Samurai w/gun rack, 92" WB, VW 1.9 TD, Toyota 5-speed and dual cases with 4.7 gearset, Toyota axles with Longfields, 5.29's, ARB's f&r, YJ's, 35's, FJ-60 power steering, high steer, ............. <>< <>< <>< Hey, if this rig is for wheelin', what are all these animal parts doin' in here?

09-03-2002, 10:00 AM	#5 (permalink)
jp junkie Rock God Join Date: Nov 2001 Member # 7921 Location: Real close to the Hammers. Posts: 1,137	Ive had several dodge diesels all 12v motors. Some real fast and some real slow (stock). The last 12v 5 speed 4x4 I had, was a 98 dually with 128kmi. It was one of the most powerful stock trucks I have ever driven. The fuel gauge sucked, the infinity radio didn't work in FM mode, and the friken ABS light stayed on. Right now I have a 99.5 Super duty PSD 6 speed 4x4 with 75kmi. The turning radius sucks, the driver's seat is falling appart, the gear shifter knob has fallen off twice, the air bag light now comes on and stays on and the fit and finish sucks. Its not all bad news, I like the truck, it has good power (stock) and tows my junk just fine. Given a choice, I would go with another Dodge. Oh BTW, why jeepeater? Is it because jeeps are such bad ass rigs, that is the bench mark you are trying to convince us you reached? __________________ http://trailsport4x4.com Last edited by jp junkie; 09-03-2002 at 02:37 PM.

09-03-2002, 07:17 PM	#7 (permalink)
jeepeater302 Registered User Join Date: Feb 2002 Member # 10339 Location: Kokomo, IN Posts: 38	hey, thanks for the response...i appreciate everyones input! __________________ Aaron 86' BroncoII-beefed 302, 74' bronco chassis, dana 44 front, ford 9" rear, 4.56 gears, factory L/S all around, 36X14.50 dirt grips Current Project: "Jeepeater" 87' ranger short bed cab 1/2 TBI 350 1 ton Full width axles divorced 205 external cage

09-03-2002, 02:27 PM	#6 (permalink)
Doc Johnson Banned Join Date: Aug 2002 Member # 13299 Location: Bloomington, IN Posts: 432	I have a 99 Ford F350 crew cab dually with the Power Stroke. It has awsome power. It pulls my dads 11,000 lb boat with ease. I personally think Dodges are hidious so every one has their own opinion. Get what you want and they are both great engines.

09-03-2002, 07:43 PM	#8 (permalink)
KMAN Registered User Join Date: Sep 2001 Member # 6943 Location: Columbus, Ohio Posts: 595	IMHO it comes down to the best deal. Look hard and buy low. I am just waiting for a Toyota 1 ton diesel, till then I will drive my PSD I bought at 0%. __________________ are you kidding me?

09-04-2002, 05:46 AM	#9 (permalink)
Eskimo Registered User Join Date: Mar 2002 Member # 10429 Location: Danville, PA Posts: 4,457	Toyota 1-ton diesel... good thing you have a reliable truck now, 'cuz it'll be a while! In the ealier years, I'd get the Dodge... The 12v motor has TONS of easily unlocked power in it, and is stone-reliable. The truck that's wrapped around the engine, however... well... If I had to get a '02, it would be the duramax... '03? That new Dodge is tempting. I don't need 4 completely full-size doors, the interior is nicer (but still not as nice as the GMC), but then again, I drive a Cruiser, not a Jeep, so I'm kinda a sucker for the oddball. __________________ Rich Q. FJ-40 Cruggy - tuned 5.3/4WS rockwells/linked/ORI's/42's

09-04-2002, 01:45 PM	#10 (permalink)
JR2 Registered User Join Date: Aug 2002 Member # 13475 Location: Eagle River, Alaska Posts: 52	The Cummins engine is far superior to the International engine in the fords. The Cummis has less moving parts, bigger connecting rods, bigger berrings and has a longer time to rebuild than the Ford motor. My Dad has had two Dodges, one 92 and one 98.5. Both have been very good trucks, the 92 is still running and has 130K on it. Still gets 20 mpg and shows no sign of dieing. The 98.5 has almost 100 K on it and still runs fine. The body and interior are still like new (except for coffee stains, etc). I have a 2001 Dodge that does not have enough miles on it to comment, but I can say that I have only been to the dealer once and that was for a computer reflash. I have chosen to modify my truck and it is now putting out approx 450 hp/900 tq to the ground. Its not set up to tow, but I could change a few things and this truck could two with 400 hp. __________________ Insert signature here...

09-05-2002, 12:17 PM	#12 (permalink)
5.9ctd_fj40 Registered User Join Date: Jun 2002 Member # 12338 Location: gig harbor washington Posts: 217	i think he meant life-to overhaul. powerstrokes make decent numbers but cant handle being turned up powerwise too much. they are not rated as a medium heavy duty diesel engine like the 5.9 the cummins is a tried an true engine. built in piston cooling nozzles, oilcooler, humongous rods and bearings and lastly almost a 5" stroke. what does the powerstroke have for stroke? i know it aint close to the cummins. the 6 cylinder design offers more efficiency. i guy know has several 2000 and newer f 350s with cummins 5.9s in them. why? powerstokes cranks are breaking left and right. he pulls backhoes and real heavy equipment. these wernt stock powerstrokes either. bottom line V8 diesels suck. anybody that thinks otherwise is ignorant. they should put dt466's in f 350s those things rock! oh yah post some pics of disentegrated cummins rods please id love to see em. check out www.fordcummins.com the proper way to build a ford!

09-05-2002, 01:12 PM	#13 (permalink)
fj40charles Zeus of the Sluice Join Date: Oct 2000 Member # 1926 Location: Dallas, TX USA Posts: 3,255	PSD and Cummins are both good engines. Personal perference toward the Cummins for durability. Cummins is better for bombing. Not too many PSD motors will stay together when they're over 500 HP. Many Cummins are at 600+ HP and staying together. Check out www. turbodieselregister.com if you want more info. on the Cummins. Charles __________________ '69 FJ40 with very few stock parts. 2000 Cummins with some goodies to make it smoke..... Trail Gear's Bad Ethics=Bad Business.

09-05-2002, 02:07 PM	#14 (permalink)
Hillbilly Registered User Join Date: May 2000 Member # 857 Location: Dickson TN Posts: 1,154	I think for what MOST people use their truck for, you can't go wrong with either. Just pick one. Both are proven, both will do the job. It's all up to personal preference after that. If I had the $$$ I'd put the cummins in a CC Ford and call it done. That would be my ideal truck.

09-05-2002, 05:24 PM	#16 (permalink)
KMAN Registered User Join Date: Sep 2001 Member # 6943 Location: Columbus, Ohio Posts: 595	[To date the truck has 750 thousand miles. The injection pump was replaced at 350,000 my bad (never used fuel conditioner), 750k....I never heard of a PSD going this high, even highway car hauler dudes. 02 PSD __________________ are you kidding me?

09-05-2002, 08:54 PM	#17 (permalink)
5.9ctd_fj40 Registered User Join Date: Jun 2002 Member # 12338 Location: gig harbor washington Posts: 217	i used to work at cummins. i personally saw several car hauler guys with hi-mileage dodges. one had close to 600,000 and had a new head gasket installed. old one eroded. you could still see the crosshatch in the cylinders. the others were in the 400,000 range.

09-06-2002, 07:24 AM	#18 (permalink)
fj40charles Zeus of the Sluice Join Date: Oct 2000 Member # 1926 Location: Dallas, TX USA Posts: 3,255	400K to 600K miles on a Cummins is not big news. They've been doing this for a very long time. The very ridgid design of the I6 and having more bearing surface area than any V8 engine, and big a$$ connecting rod and crank leads to long service life. For raw grunt, you will not beat an inline 6 motor. The majority of the OTR trucks have inline motors for the very reason. Also, makes it easy to turbo charge too. Charles __________________ '69 FJ40 with very few stock parts. 2000 Cummins with some goodies to make it smoke..... Trail Gear's Bad Ethics=Bad Business.

09-06-2002, 01:44 PM	#20 (permalink)
Oxjockey Registered User Join Date: Sep 2001 Member # 7163 Location: PA Posts: 1,863	I think the coolest thing about the Cummins is that it's a real diesel engine that they wrapped a pickup truck around. The V8s have no other application than a pickup truck. If it can be used in industial applications, I shouldn't be able to break it. Bryan

09-06-2002, 01:52 PM	#21 (permalink)
fj40charles Zeus of the Sluice Join Date: Oct 2000 Member # 1926 Location: Dallas, TX USA Posts: 3,255	Also, remember you can get a Cummins or a CAT as an option on the larger Ford F650 and F750 trucks. The 7.3 liter PSD is the "standard" motor. Just why would Ford be offering a Cummins or a CAT as an option? Do they know something we don't know????? CK __________________ '69 FJ40 with very few stock parts. 2000 Cummins with some goodies to make it smoke..... Trail Gear's Bad Ethics=Bad Business.

09-06-2002, 05:56 PM	#23 (permalink)
Oxjockey Registered User Join Date: Sep 2001 Member # 7163 Location: PA Posts: 1,863	They all use that Navistar motor? I mean, I know they make other diesels... Bryan

09-06-2002, 06:44 PM	#24 (permalink)
That Mick Registered User Join Date: Oct 2001 Member # 7430 Location: Wright WY Posts: 1,053	yep the old PS is a clone of the T444E International medium truck motor. The new PS is a clone of the VT365 medium duty motor. and, yep, you can get a 444/365 in industrial apps too. Not the most common, cause you rarely need the power these motors develop, but you can order them. __________________ "I knew that topless lady had something up her sleeve"- John Prine

09-06-2002, 08:21 PM	#25 (permalink)
horse_with_no_name Registered User Join Date: May 2002 Member # 11760 Location: aguanga Posts: 294	CHECK OUT WWW.TURBODIESELREGISTER.COM FOR A MILLION MILE CUMMINS POWERED DODGE THAT WAS USED FOR HOTSHOT PULLING, JUST DO A SEARCH OVER THERE!!!!!!!!!!! AND YES FORD DOES KNOW SOMETHING ABOUT DIESELS OR THEY WOULD NOT BE PUTTING A CUMMINS IN THEIR HD TRUCKS. TRUCKS RATED FOR TWICE WHAT A DODGE/CTD IS RATED FOR AND AVAILABLE IN A 3/4-1 TON PACKAGE!!!!!!!!!! OOPS....... SORRY ABOUT THE CAPS. __________________ 87 zuk Last edited by horse_with_no_name; 09-06-2002 at 08:23 PM.

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