Early 90's rig...gas vs diesel? - Pirate4x4.Com : 4x4 and Off-Road Forum

paniolo · 10-21-2002, 12:26 PM

Looking for a tow rig...not going to be a DD, basically only used to tow my rig for 200+ mile trips and occasional use around town. I'm still debating over a crewcab p/u, a Suburban or a full size van, probably go with the best deal I can find in a 3/4 or 1 ton in any of those bodys for under $5k. Should I stay away from the diesels of that era (late 80's to early 90's)? Yeah, I know I would love the Cummins from 93 or 94 but I haven't seen any close to my price. Any thing else to stay away from in that vintage?

JasonH · 10-23-2002, 07:37 AM

Don't bother with any non-turbo Diesel unless you plan on adding a turbo later.
If you're looking that old, find a Diesel that's been turboed or go big block.
I have an 85 F350 6.9 Diesel. I love the truck itself, but it won't pull for shit. A turbo and an overdrive would make this truck just like I want, but that's probably $4K or so.
I'm probably going to sell it and get a 454 Suburban.

paniolo · 10-23-2002, 07:43 AM

Yeah, thats been my inclination to stay away from the normally aspirated diesels of the era. I'm thinking big block too... some of my friends say the gas mileage is too poor, but since its not a DD I figure I can live with another 20 gallons of gas on a 600 mile trip.

postal · 10-23-2002, 10:29 AM

I'd hold out for a Cummins. You'll be way happier if you can find one in your range. Better mileage, better towing torque, last forever. If you can get a 89-93, these are the easiest and cheapest to turn up the power on. 91.5-93 models are intercooled, which is a big plus. 94-98.5 are capable of more power yet, but would cost more. Check ebay (search on dodge diesel) and check TDR classifieds.

Paul Gagnon · 10-23-2002, 10:43 AM

I have a '90 F250 with a 7.3L naturally aspirated diesel. The engine has plenty of torque to get the job done. Go out and take one for a test drive before you decide.

Norm · 10-23-2002, 08:48 PM

"Turbo diesel", BB gassers will get about 1/2 the milage and not pull as well. Both the Ford 7.3 and Dodge 5.9 units are good. I'd stay away from the chevy 6.5's and all the auto's.

postal · 10-24-2002, 06:09 AM

Good point, Norm. There is no auto that has been proven to stand up well to diesel torque in a pickup. Not even the "awesome" Allison.

Better off getting a manual, or the other option is to have the auto beefed so it will last. There are people who can do this very well, but at a price. I like the simplicity and reliability of a manual, same for the Heep.

Rocktoyo · 10-24-2002, 11:24 AM

I tote and DD a 96 2500 ram diesel. Tweaked to about 250 h/p and 900 ft/lb torque. Gets 17 or so pulling 5 horses and other than its like parking school bus, is a nice road truck with good manners.

I started with the auto but converted it to a NV4500 and man..... does it pull better.

If I was going diesel I'd suggest the Ram, 1st gen or second, dosen't matter but, if it's a 1st gen 5 speed shoot the getrag and put a 4500 in it.

If I was going gas, I'd get a BB Chevy/GMC. If its got a TH400 in it, leave it alone, if it has a 700r4 put the biggest damn cooler you can find on it and a R/V shift kit. Bypass ball valve the cooler tho, so you aren't running the fluid temps at 100 deg empty.

The Dodge auto can be adapted to pull better but, requires a shift kit, tightening of the packs, a brake band servo lever upgrade and a destall converter with a l/u switch. However, I've heard of 5.9's 94 to 97 pulling 1200 lb/ft on the dyno's with autos so it can be done.

Any turbo diesel thats used for pulling needs a pyro. This gives you insight into the health of the mill and if you increase power, can save the mill from meltdown. The 7.3 PSD are nice stock but, are super expensive to BOMB and the results aint that great compared to the 5.9 cummins. Not to mention the life expectancy of the 7.3 is 250k versus 500k on the cummins.

I know the PSD freaks are gonna have fun ripping this one but, its like this, try to find a rebuilder for the 5.9 and then do the same search for the 7.3, you'll get 10 to 20 times the hits on the 7.3. If there are that many rebuilders out there for the 7.3 that are surviving you'd think the 7.3 isn't as stout as the 5.9.

Joe

GRMhick · 10-24-2002, 03:21 PM

Kbb puts a 1 ton dulley dodge 2wd with a 5.9 5 speed at $5000.. i woudl shoot for that.

paniolo · 10-25-2002, 08:00 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by Hick
Kbb puts a 1 ton dulley dodge 2wd with a 5.9 5 speed at $5000.. i woudl shoot for that.

I know...KBB has private seller 2wd cummins for 92/93 in the low 4's depending on milage. BUT check out the classifieds and Autotrader.com and that does NOT seem like the case. Also I need at least an extended cab, ideally a crew for the kids so that ups the price a little.

I think my target is a 92-93 Dodge 250 or 350 Clubcab with the 5.9 turbo diesel and the 5 speed. Dodge didn't offer the Cummins in an extended cab until 92. Of course what they call a Club cab seems to really be just an extended cab with folding jumpseats until the new 2500/3500 models in 94. In autotrader the 92-93 250's range from $1275 to $14,999

with an average of $7,667. This includes 4x4's, both body types as well as the various gas motors.

I may still be interested in the Fords from the early 90's too...any suggestions on what I should look for or stay away from? Plus I'm still debating a big block. I question paying an extra 1.5 to 2.0k for diesel when I'm looking at only 6 or so long trips towing a year. Of course hopefully the diesel would hold its value and last longer so I could recover that cost at resale???

Joe_W · 10-25-2002, 09:28 PM

David..I have a good buddy who just started selling at the Dodge dealer in Austin (the old Maggies dealership). I'll try and remnember to ask him to kep an eye open for what your interested in

MB4wd · 10-27-2002, 01:50 AM

If you decide to go the diesel route, especially ford, make sure the rig has record of coolant treatment. I have a 91 f250 7.3 with the Banks turbo. Its my DD as well as the tow rig, my only gripe is the dual mass flywheel.
As to the ford vs. dodge debate, the Cummins IS the better motor for the long haul, but the truck they come in are not gonna last. The pre-powerstroke 7.3 is not a bad motor and is pretty straight forward as to working on it. The parts are alot cheaper than the stroke's also.

I really like the oilburner over the gasser, just stay away from the gm 6.2/6.5 my .02

paniolo · 11-22-2002, 12:54 PM

Doubt anyone cares, but I ended up getting an '81 2500 Suburban. Nice straight body, good paint, a '93 454 with 70k miles on it. Helper springs, tow pkg, beefed HD 400, HD tranny cooler, oil cooler, elec brake controller, and a full set of VDO gauges. Interior is a little rough. Prior owner was a drag racer and this was his tow rig till he bought a new Chevy 2500. The engine is awful clean and pretty

Paid $2,950, so I have plenty left to buy a trailer

JasonH · 11-22-2002, 02:14 PM

Of course we care!

Good deal on the Sub, that's exactly the kind of deal I'm looking for.
Sorry I didn't get back to you... I'm keeping the F350 for now. Wife left her job that had the company car, so now I need it.

jp junkie · 11-25-2002, 03:13 PM

Quote:

The 7.3 PSD are nice stock but, are super expensive to BOMB and the results aint that great compared to the 5.9 cummins. Not to mention the life expectancy of the 7.3 is 250k versus 500k on the cummins.

I don't think PSDs are super expensive to BOMB. Exhaust is the same on both, guages are the same, the cam plate on a 94-98.5 dodge is $220.00 while a 4 bank chip for a PSD is $550.00 (Stock, 50hp, 75hp, 100hp). So it only costs about $300.00 more for more hp choices. As far as miles a PSD will easly go 500k mi and I have seen cummins at over 800k mi.

Joe_W · 11-25-2002, 09:08 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by paniolo
Doubt anyone cares, but I ended up getting an '81 2500 Suburban. Nice straight body, good paint, a '93 454 with 70k miles on it. Helper springs, tow pkg, beefed HD 400, HD tranny cooler, oil cooler, elec brake controller, and a full set of VDO gauges. Interior is a little rough. Prior owner was a drag racer and this was his tow rig till he bought a new Chevy 2500. The engine is awful clean and pretty Paid $2,950, so I have plenty left to buy a trailer

Very cool........congrats

When your shopping for that trailer make sure it's long enough I can squeeze the Samurai behind the runner

Actually..I troll on the Longhorn board and one of their guys was selling his trailer..want me to find details?

postal · 11-26-2002, 02:11 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by jp junkie

I don't think PSDs are super expensive to BOMB. Exhaust is the same on both, guages are the same, the cam plate on a 94-98.5 dodge is $220.00 while a 4 bank chip for a PSD is $550.00 (Stock, 50hp, 75hp, 100hp). So it only costs about $300.00 more for more hp choices. As far as miles a PSD will easly go 500k mi and I have seen cummins at over 800k mi.

Yes, but what does it cost to go beyond those numbers? And.....what happens to the reliability of each engine at these higher levels of power? I'd rather have the overbuilt Cummins as a base to build on for big power numbers.

P.S. The best part of the first gen Cummins is that most of the power upgrades are free and easy. Granted, they won't get you the big numbers that can be had with the second gen 12 valves, but I guess you can't have everything.

I have spent $150 on a turbo housing, made pump adjustments myself, and increased torque and power 50% over stock with minimal effort. Gotta like that. Try that with a gasser.

m715 · 11-27-2002, 12:27 AM

Watch and wait...took me about 5 months to catch a nice deal on the dodge i got. Just check autotrader.com every now and again...
Another place to watch is ebay...I got a '95 CTD 5spd 2wd dually rolling chassie for a little over 3k delivered

- 2wd definatly should be able to find a cummins in that range
- 4wd...your gona have to wait and watch...but the deals are there

except the asking price is - 7k
Greenville, TX 75401 - truck 1

ROKCRAZ · 12-04-2002, 10:34 AM

Looking for a tow rig...not going to be a DD, basically only used to tow my rig for 200+ mile trips and occasional use around town. I'm still debating over a crewcab p/u, a Suburban or a full size van, probably go with the best deal I can find in a 3/4 or 1 ton in any of those bodys for under $5k. Should I stay away from the diesels of that era (late 80's to early 90's)? Yeah, I know I would love the Cummins from 93 or 94 but I haven't seen any close to my price. Any thing else to stay away from in that vintage?

CHECK OUT MY RIG AND TELL ME WHAT YOU THINK EMAIL ME HERE:
atabotabo@ommconsulting.com or adrenalin42day@yahoo.com

10-21-2002, 12:26 PM	#1 (permalink)
paniolo Registered User Join Date: Oct 2000 Member # 1959 Location: Austin, TX Posts: 1,234	Early 90's rig...gas vs diesel? Looking for a tow rig...not going to be a DD, basically only used to tow my rig for 200+ mile trips and occasional use around town. I'm still debating over a crewcab p/u, a Suburban or a full size van, probably go with the best deal I can find in a 3/4 or 1 ton in any of those bodys for under $5k. Should I stay away from the diesels of that era (late 80's to early 90's)? Yeah, I know I would love the Cummins from 93 or 94 but I haven't seen any close to my price. Any thing else to stay away from in that vintage? __________________ David M. 85 4Runner on jackstands :(

10-23-2002, 07:37 AM	#2 (permalink)
JasonH Registered User Join Date: Sep 2000 Member # 1767 Location: McKinney, Texas Posts: 765	Don't bother with any non-turbo Diesel unless you plan on adding a turbo later. If you're looking that old, find a Diesel that's been turboed or go big block. I have an 85 F350 6.9 Diesel. I love the truck itself, but it won't pull for shit. A turbo and an overdrive would make this truck just like I want, but that's probably $4K or so. I'm probably going to sell it and get a 454 Suburban. __________________ TLCA #8123 Lone Star Land Cruisers - 79 FJ40

10-23-2002, 07:43 AM	#3 (permalink)
paniolo Registered User Join Date: Oct 2000 Member # 1959 Location: Austin, TX Posts: 1,234	Yeah, thats been my inclination to stay away from the normally aspirated diesels of the era. I'm thinking big block too... some of my friends say the gas mileage is too poor, but since its not a DD I figure I can live with another 20 gallons of gas on a 600 mile trip. __________________ David M. 85 4Runner on jackstands :(

10-23-2002, 10:29 AM	#4 (permalink)
postal Registered User Join Date: Jun 2001 Member # 5458 Location: IL/IN Posts: 302	I'd hold out for a Cummins. You'll be way happier if you can find one in your range. Better mileage, better towing torque, last forever. If you can get a 89-93, these are the easiest and cheapest to turn up the power on. 91.5-93 models are intercooled, which is a big plus. 94-98.5 are capable of more power yet, but would cost more. Check ebay (search on dodge diesel) and check TDR classifieds. __________________ '99 4Runner Last edited by postal; 10-23-2002 at 10:33 AM.

10-23-2002, 10:43 AM	#5 (permalink)
Paul Gagnon Poseur SUV Join Date: Apr 2000 Member # 610 Location: Sherwood Park, Alberta eh? Posts: 9,934 Blog Entries: 6	I have a '90 F250 with a 7.3L naturally aspirated diesel. The engine has plenty of torque to get the job done. Go out and take one for a test drive before you decide. __________________ Paul Gagnon Sherwood Park, Alberta eh? "No Brain, No Pain"

10-23-2002, 08:48 PM	#6 (permalink)
Norm Poor White Trash Join Date: Apr 2001 Member # 4387 Location: Kalispell, MT Posts: 1,873	"Turbo diesel", BB gassers will get about 1/2 the milage and not pull as well. Both the Ford 7.3 and Dodge 5.9 units are good. I'd stay away from the chevy 6.5's and all the auto's. __________________ "My Border Collie is smarter than our president"

10-24-2002, 06:09 AM	#7 (permalink)
postal Registered User Join Date: Jun 2001 Member # 5458 Location: IL/IN Posts: 302	Good point, Norm. There is no auto that has been proven to stand up well to diesel torque in a pickup. Not even the "awesome" Allison. Better off getting a manual, or the other option is to have the auto beefed so it will last. There are people who can do this very well, but at a price. I like the simplicity and reliability of a manual, same for the Heep. __________________ '99 4Runner

10-24-2002, 11:24 AM	#8 (permalink)
Rocktoyo Registered User Join Date: Sep 2002 Member # 13966 Location: Here Posts: 399	I tote and DD a 96 2500 ram diesel. Tweaked to about 250 h/p and 900 ft/lb torque. Gets 17 or so pulling 5 horses and other than its like parking school bus, is a nice road truck with good manners. I started with the auto but converted it to a NV4500 and man..... does it pull better. If I was going diesel I'd suggest the Ram, 1st gen or second, dosen't matter but, if it's a 1st gen 5 speed shoot the getrag and put a 4500 in it. If I was going gas, I'd get a BB Chevy/GMC. If its got a TH400 in it, leave it alone, if it has a 700r4 put the biggest damn cooler you can find on it and a R/V shift kit. Bypass ball valve the cooler tho, so you aren't running the fluid temps at 100 deg empty. The Dodge auto can be adapted to pull better but, requires a shift kit, tightening of the packs, a brake band servo lever upgrade and a destall converter with a l/u switch. However, I've heard of 5.9's 94 to 97 pulling 1200 lb/ft on the dyno's with autos so it can be done. Any turbo diesel thats used for pulling needs a pyro. This gives you insight into the health of the mill and if you increase power, can save the mill from meltdown. The 7.3 PSD are nice stock but, are super expensive to BOMB and the results aint that great compared to the 5.9 cummins. Not to mention the life expectancy of the 7.3 is 250k versus 500k on the cummins. I know the PSD freaks are gonna have fun ripping this one but, its like this, try to find a rebuilder for the 5.9 and then do the same search for the 7.3, you'll get 10 to 20 times the hits on the 7.3. If there are that many rebuilders out there for the 7.3 that are surviving you'd think the 7.3 isn't as stout as the 5.9. Joe __________________ [FONT=Comic Sans MS]See, I told you it would break.[/FONT]

10-24-2002, 03:21 PM	#9 (permalink)
GRMhick Pirate4x4 Addict! Join Date: Feb 2000 Member # 87 Location: I live in hotels tear out the walls I have accountants pay for it all Posts: 7,203	Kbb puts a 1 ton dulley dodge 2wd with a 5.9 5 speed at $5000.. i woudl shoot for that.

10-27-2002, 01:50 AM	#12 (permalink)
MB4wd Registered User Join Date: Oct 2002 Member # 14537 Location: Friendswood, TX Posts: 60	If you decide to go the diesel route, especially ford, make sure the rig has record of coolant treatment. I have a 91 f250 7.3 with the Banks turbo. Its my DD as well as the tow rig, my only gripe is the dual mass flywheel. As to the ford vs. dodge debate, the Cummins IS the better motor for the long haul, but the truck they come in are not gonna last. The pre-powerstroke 7.3 is not a bad motor and is pretty straight forward as to working on it. The parts are alot cheaper than the stroke's also. I really like the oilburner over the gasser, just stay away from the gm 6.2/6.5 my .02 __________________ MOLON LABE

11-22-2002, 12:54 PM	#13 (permalink)
paniolo Registered User Join Date: Oct 2000 Member # 1959 Location: Austin, TX Posts: 1,234	I got a Sub Doubt anyone cares, but I ended up getting an '81 2500 Suburban. Nice straight body, good paint, a '93 454 with 70k miles on it. Helper springs, tow pkg, beefed HD 400, HD tranny cooler, oil cooler, elec brake controller, and a full set of VDO gauges. Interior is a little rough. Prior owner was a drag racer and this was his tow rig till he bought a new Chevy 2500. The engine is awful clean and pretty Paid $2,950, so I have plenty left to buy a trailer __________________ David M. 85 4Runner on jackstands :(

11-22-2002, 02:14 PM	#14 (permalink)
JasonH Registered User Join Date: Sep 2000 Member # 1767 Location: McKinney, Texas Posts: 765	Of course we care! Good deal on the Sub, that's exactly the kind of deal I'm looking for. Sorry I didn't get back to you... I'm keeping the F350 for now. Wife left her job that had the company car, so now I need it. __________________ TLCA #8123 Lone Star Land Cruisers - 79 FJ40

11-27-2002, 12:27 AM	#18 (permalink)
m715 Wheeler Join Date: Nov 2000 Member # 2235 Location: Owego, NY Posts: 307	Watch and wait...took me about 5 months to catch a nice deal on the dodge i got. Just check autotrader.com every now and again... Another place to watch is ebay...I got a '95 CTD 5spd 2wd dually rolling chassie for a little over 3k delivered - 2wd definatly should be able to find a cummins in that range - 4wd...your gona have to wait and watch...but the deals are there except the asking price is - 7k Greenville, TX 75401 - truck 1 __________________ 1977 CJ7 Chevy 327 and some other stuff... 1968 M715...Under Construction

12-04-2002, 10:34 AM	#19 (permalink)
ROKCRAZ Registered User Join Date: Oct 2000 Member # 1980 Location: cameron park ca. Posts: 165	FOR SALE Looking for a tow rig...not going to be a DD, basically only used to tow my rig for 200+ mile trips and occasional use around town. I'm still debating over a crewcab p/u, a Suburban or a full size van, probably go with the best deal I can find in a 3/4 or 1 ton in any of those bodys for under $5k. Should I stay away from the diesels of that era (late 80's to early 90's)? Yeah, I know I would love the Cummins from 93 or 94 but I haven't seen any close to my price. Any thing else to stay away from in that vintage? CHECK OUT MY RIG AND TELL ME WHAT YOU THINK EMAIL ME HERE: atabotabo@ommconsulting.com or adrenalin42day@yahoo.com

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