No more trans failures: RoadRanger swap

[Mr. Mindless]

maybe you should consider adding some polish to your install...

mine's not cell phone conversation quiet just yet but it's close.

[chrisevans2645]

Originally Posted by Mr. Mindless

maybe you should consider adding some polish to your install...

mine's not cell phone conversation quiet just yet but it's close.

i'm working on it but i just snapped an axle and have other stuff going on. plus it sucks being broke

[lurchseesu]

If you don't mind me asking, what was the initial price of the 13 speed? Just so we can get idea of what to spend on one.

[chrisevans2645]

i got mine for about $950 plus shipping from goodies truck parts. it wasn't rebuilt but they had inspected it and replaced external parts like hoses and the regulator. i was lucky to find one so cheap and shipping was reasonable too. they also had a flywheel housing for $200ish and i found a #2 clutch housing on ebay though i don't remember how much. also it shipped without the output yoke/flange or the shifter

[Mr. Mindless]

My RTOO9513 was a full rebulid with warranty, complete swap all bought at once set me back $3750. Clutch, trans, SAE clutch housing, flywheel, ujoint, starter, some other odds and ends...

Couldn't find exactly what I was looking for on Craigslist since I was set on the double OD. If I'd been able to settle for a RTO there were a half dozen in reasonable distance with low miles around a grand to 1500. Then I'd still have had to scrounge the clutch housing, flywheel, etc.


Insulating the shifter stalk made a huge difference. Still need to do another nice rubber mat on the floor and maybe double boot the shifter and it will be nearly stock quiet. Nearly.

[Diesel_Dirk]

Originally Posted by chrisevans2645

as far as mud you had better get going and be in the right gear before you hit it because without syncros you won't be able to shift once you're in the mud/sand/snow

Not without practice anyway... :P

[superglock]

The large fuller trans should have 50wt oil in them, If you are running 80-90 it might help with heat and drag. People also need to remember the in the 1970s the big rigs pulling 80,000lbs were only using engines that made only 900 or so lbft of tourqe. that is were the 950 lbft trans were used. We have a gear shop in Wa state that my Dad started in 1982 and I remember building lots of these. Then things changed to the 12513 them 14613 and up, The newwer ones I see now are 18918 and even a few 22918.

Happy shifting

[mike_belben]

great thread. i just made a deal on a 9513 that couldnt be refused, but i dont think i wanna hack the dodge apart.

unloaded local driving.. you guys taking off in 3rd and 4th and then hitting every gear, skipping every other, splitting every other, etc? whats a typical 0 to 45mph look like?

at 70-75 mph, is 13th a coasting gear or will the truck still pull a long grade with the .62 overdrive? (i have 3.54s and 235/85R16 on my dually)

[chrisevans2645]

in my case i used to start out in 4th but now that i have a pneumatic setup to actuate the clutch i start in 3rd. sometimes i skip 4th, in fact sometimes it's easier to skip 4th. i rarely ever use 5th over, and if i'm in a hurry i sometimes skip 6th over. as for climbing in 8th over situation dictates. at 75mph it does good but at 65 i usually downshift to keep i egt's in check, depending on the hill. for example i can climb union pass from bullhead to kingman in 8th direct at 55mph. my engine is a stock 1st gen with the timing bumped up and the afc rotated but unground. no fuel screw adjustments.

[Machinos]

"pneumatic setup to actuate the clutch" - what's that?

[chrisevans2645]

i couldn't figure out any other way to do it so i used a treadle valve for air brakes and a pneumatic ram to push on the arm coming off the clutch fork. it's nice in that you can push the clutch pedal down with your pinky, it sucks in that there is no feel to it at all.

[me2]

Just curious if the treadle allows you to feather the clutch the way you would with a manual setup ? Does it have enough "feel" to do that ?

[pic_jon]

Originally Posted by me2

Just curious if the treadle allows you to feather the clutch the way you would with a manual setup ? Does it have enough "feel" to do that ?

Nah, there's no way to get any feel out of that set up. But if it works it work (insert thumbs up). Sounds pretty cool.. Especially when ya start getting older

Originally Posted by chrisevans2645

it's nice in that you can push the clutch pedal down with your pinky, it sucks in that there is no feel to it at all.

[chrisevans2645]

i can feather it a little but i have to do it visually. i have a rod coming off the crossbar and it sticks up through the floor. the main reason for that was as a limp home measure if the treadle valve or something went out but i use it as a visual indication of where the clutch is in addition to the sound of the engine.

[Machinos]

Haha, that rules.

[mike_belben]

so when you step on the clutch, are you applying air to a cylinder or releasing air from the cylinder? im not familiar with treadle valves.. but wonder if its possible to use a restrictor, adjustable muffler or some other form of fill/bleed orifice to give an adjustable speed to the cylinder motion. this way you dont get feedback but atleast a timed delay.

..lift the pedal and its eases into engagement over a 3 second span sort of thing.

??

[chrisevans2645]

it applies pressure. i tried using a needle valve to do that but it didn't work well. now i have a worn out shock absorber on there that has minimal effect on release but helps slow it down a little on engagement. keeps me from stalling it at least.

[okiebindernut]

The foot treadle is a pretty good idea. I bet an air throttle valve would give you alot more control. We have a couple trucks at work that use air for the auxillary throttle( crane trucks). They seem to be very easy to deal with.

[85blue4runner]

if you used an air cylinder of some type to actuate the clutch why would you need a pedal at all?

couldnt you just have a switch on the gear lever or maybe something like an old high beam switch on the floor to hit with your left foot? Hit the switch the clutch disengages (under pressure) hit it again and the pressure releases slowly and engages the clutch...

seems pretty damn cool to me.

[JayMcJay]

Are there any load reactive hydraulic valves? My buggies steering is full hydro, and has some feedback feel. Maybe that would be a way to get some feel out of the system?

[chrisevans2645]

thanks for the suggestions, i didn't mean to steal the thread though. that air vale sounds interesting, i'll look into that. i was looking at hydraulic before i went air but it was a bit much. i've actually broken several clutch brakes before i regulated the air pressure down. as far as a switch i suppose you could use a trolley valve or something but a on/off switch would give you no control or feel. with the treadle valve you can control the clutch position though not particularly smoothly or accurately. for example if i can see my clutch lever i can let off the pedal slowly while counting to 5 or so.

[lurchseesu]

Sounds like more trouble than it's worth. While I'm not big on mechanical clutches it just seems like it would have been so much simpler to go that route.

How much would it have been to go with a normal hydro setup? Or are hydraulic big clutch parts just too pricey still?

[me2]

Originally Posted by chrisevans2645

What's up with the red bottle ?

Could you tell us again what clutch you are using and why you can't use a regular hydraulic linkage ?

I'm not criticizing, I'm trying to learn.

[chrisevans2645]

i'm using a pull type 14" dual disk ceramic clutch. i tried figuring out how to go hydraulic but couldn't get enough travel. i know that there are trucks that use them but the only style i've found mounts under the clutch housing which would reduce ground clearance

edit: the red bottle is my steering reservoir

[[486]]

Get a couple little 6" travel .5-1" bore hydraulic rams and work out a hydraulic loop between them. Same sorta thing, all the travel you could want, and good pedal feel so long as you bleed the system well enough.

http://www.surpluscenter.com/item.as...name=hydraulic
If you can deal with the excess length.

http://www.surpluscenter.com/item.as...name=hydraulic
If you can figure out levers and such to increase the travel.