I'm new to the ford 460 / E40D, I thought they were good pullers? - Pirate4x4.Com : 4x4 and Off-Road Forum
 
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Old 08-25-2010, 06:28 PM   #1 (permalink)
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I'm new to the ford 460 / E40D, I thought they were good pullers?

My last tow rig was an 88 F350 with a stock 7.3 and a 5speed. It pulled my 40' 5th wheel fine, it just wasn't going to win any races, you know how that story goes.

I recently got a '90 F350 with a 460 and a fresh E40D automatic, 3.55 gears and stock tires, and I gotta say this thing is pretty sluggish! I took it from nor cal to oregon, and I guess it was a little faster off the line than the diesel, but not by much. I did however get about 13mpg out of it. Coming back with 2000# in the bed and 6000# worth of toys on a trailer (I scaled it) I was having to drop into second gear to pull most of the hills. Coming across hwy50 from sac to reno yesterday I had to drop down to 1st gear on a few hills and still overheated it to the point that I had to pull over and let it cool twice

WTF? I thought these were supposed to be what smoked the diesels of their day, is this typical for this setup?

I have an extra (bigger) radiator for a diesel I'll see if I can put in, and where do y'all put the sensors for trans temp gauges? do they go in the pan or on the line heading to the cooler?
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Old 08-25-2010, 06:50 PM   #2 (permalink)
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Do you have good coolant in there? Good T-Stat?, Radiator clean on the INSIDE? All air purged out (no air pockets)? Clutch fan working properly? Proper weight of engine oil? Not sure if a '90 is EFI but plugs correct and gapped correctly?

I wouldn't go swapping out stock parts until you figure out your problem and get it fixed.
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Old 08-25-2010, 06:51 PM   #3 (permalink)
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IMO the 460 has always been over rated. IMO the 351W has just as good power and will swallow just as much gas. Even the diesels back then had decent pulling power when compared to a gas. I notice you also went from a diesel/stick to a gas/slushbox, big difference in how the power gets planted to the ground. 4.10 gears would help some too.
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Old 08-25-2010, 07:02 PM   #4 (permalink)
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A fresh 460 will out pull a IDI 7.3 any day of the week.
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Old 08-25-2010, 07:09 PM   #5 (permalink)
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I recently had a 89 F350 with a 460 and stick.......it pulled awesome! Walk circles aroung my Bro's 7.3 non turbo to the point he bought an Excursion with a V10. You have something wrong if yours isn't pulling harder than your old 7.3
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Old 08-25-2010, 07:42 PM   #6 (permalink)
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3.55 gears suck with an auto. I had a 95 460 gasser, loaded it would get 6 MPG.
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Old 08-25-2010, 09:58 PM   #7 (permalink)
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Thanks for the input guys, I'll be going through the cooling system and doing a tune up, and a leak down on the engine just to get an idea of what kind of shape it is in. Also might be worth mentioning the motor has 170k on it (I'm assuming the odometer has rolled once) what kind of mileage do people usually get out of these engines?

Yes it is EFI, and I was actually getting around 9mpg pulling that weight, so I guess I shouldnt complain too much.
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Old 08-25-2010, 11:00 PM   #8 (permalink)
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ditch the auto and 4.10 gears would help but arent essential

87+ is EFI on the 460. check o2 sensor also sometimes on those a bad O2 will cause a heating issue. ignition control modules also are known to take a crap. check the thermostat, flush the radiator or replace, check water pump then id turn my head to the tranny to see if it is over heating.

radiator the diesel radiator will not fit easily better off just buying a replacement that is the right size. you could have a tranny problem causing your over heat and after getting tired of the tranny on my old 460/auto overheating the coolant, and itself on every grade with a trailer due to the tranny always unlocking in second gear on steep climbs and instantly spiking the tranny temps to astronomical levels. I rounded up the computer, a 5 speed and pedals and invested $800 in what proved to be the end all for my tranny temp issues (i had a bigger cooler) my towing blues and my power robbing loose dying torque converter issues that loved to show up every 40k-50k miles


A 460 5 spd will run great a 460 with slush box can rob the motor of A lot of power. if you want a little more snot out of that motor try putting a set of Doug thorny headers on you'll be surprised at the seat of the pants difference. but get that tranny checked out first.

1. Doug Thorley or comparable header. can’t emphasize this enough the stock manifolds rob you of zoo much its scary.
2. I did the K&N filter replacement, eliminates the air box. no noticeable improvement but the concept was there.
3. cut out the air baffles in the intake hoses. only on speed density motors the 97 mass air CA motors didn’t have this but its an air horn looking plastic piece. cut it back to where its no longer an air restriction. no noticeable improvement but the concept again is free flow
4. a straight up timing set or cam and timing set help these motors too but then you’re getting into minutia not worth the money imho (not worth it)
5. check your cat
6. i still say toss that slush box for a 5 speed (made the truck a whole different truck)
7. Chip (worthless)
8. bigger rear fuel tank

Single best mod to my EFI 460 was adding the headers, next was changing to a 5 speed from my auto. third was retrofitting a bronco tank into the rear so i could at least pass a gas station or two. Other than that all other mods are a waste of money.
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Old 08-25-2010, 11:09 PM   #9 (permalink)
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Great, I run down to the store to grab some beer, get back to my place and as I get out of the truck I hear the radiator overflowing and coolant hitting the ground. Both radiator hoses are hot, but I think I'll yank and test the thermostat anyway, and how does one go about testing a radiator?

4.10 gears, yes I'm pretyt sure I want. I'll probably just grab a $100 rear end from a u-pull it and look it over before throwing it in. The truck came with reciepts for a rebuilt tranny and I have no reason to think the guy who traded it to me was lying. As for a tranny swap or headers this is kinda my "don't fuck with it just drive it" truck while I save up to buy a new one.

Thanks for the info ddestruel,
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Old 08-25-2010, 11:56 PM   #10 (permalink)
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Originally Posted by woodchuck2 View Post
IMO the 460 has always been over rated. IMO the 351W has just as good power and will swallow just as much gas. Even the diesels back then had decent pulling power when compared to a gas. I notice you also went from a diesel/stick to a gas/slushbox, big difference in how the power gets planted to the ground. 4.10 gears would help some too.
I have 2 F350s, one with a 351 and one with a 460. Unloaded they feel similar. Put a load on them and the 460 truck is much stronger.
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Old 08-26-2010, 11:24 AM   #11 (permalink)
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That's pretty amazing gas mileage. You should see around 10 unloaded or loaded. You need lower gears. 4.11's work fine with the 460/ZF5 setup and your E4OD has an even higher overdrive, so I would try 4.11s to start. What size tires do you run? Stock dually would be 215/85R16 but stock single tire would be 235/85R16. If you're running the 235/85R16s you may want to go a step lower than 4.11s in the rear.
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Old 08-26-2010, 05:12 PM   #12 (permalink)
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A few good ways to test your radiator. Scan it with your infared in several spots. looking for hot spots and the temps going in and coming out. Tie a rag around a garden hose and shove it in the top and see the volume that comes out the bottom it should be close. I hope it helps. I could never keep my 460 cool in my motorhome towing my 16 foot boat. I was going to put in an external tranny cooler with fan, but I sold it.
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Old 08-26-2010, 05:37 PM   #13 (permalink)
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My father has an '89 F250 with the 460/E40D in it. Has a "Banks Power Pack" from back in the day. Included a nice set of headers, exhaust, different intake, and some sort of shift kit I believe.

That thing will stick right with my stock '96 Powerstroke under most conditions. But to do it it needs twice the amount of fuel. With a 12k trailer in tow, he averages 5-6 mpg. Ive done the same trip, with roughly the same load, and averaged exactly double that. 10-12mpg.
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Old 08-29-2010, 12:37 AM   #14 (permalink)
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my truck had a 460/e4od in it. it lacked power even empty and i ended up ripping it out due to the fuel injection giving me trouble. i never have liked efi. i will say this, i think it had over 200,000 miles on it and it still made 60 psi oil pressure cold and 40 warm according to my autometer gauge. i beat the shit out of the tranny a few times and it didn't give me any problems. actually i take that back, occasionally the tach would be about a littler higher than it should have been at the speed i was going. there was some sort of gray rectangular dodad that was behind the dash above the drivers right foot. it will have a group of wires going to it one of which is a pink wire with a black tracer i think and if i pulled over and unplugged it and plugged it back in it would start working again. theres supposed to be a pink wire with black tracer going to the tranny to lock up the torque converter but i couldnt find it. my buddy put a switch to ground i believe it was on his 4r100 to lock up the torque converter
edit: i have 4:10 gears
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Old 08-29-2010, 10:51 AM   #15 (permalink)
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Not sure if I would bother with testing the radiator, a buddy just picked one up from Napa for $99. Worth it just to change it. He too was having cooling problems, so he replaced the entire cooling system (radiator, t-stat, hoses) and that ended his cooling problems.

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Old 12-10-2014, 07:33 PM   #16 (permalink)
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Id bet your overheating issue is the trans boiling the coolant in the internal(radiator) cooler...my 89 efi 460 with a c6 did the same, i replaced the thermostat, water pump, and flushed it and it kept boiling over mostly right after i shut it off.I bypassed the internal cooler and put a large front mount on. Never had that problem again. Just keep in mind some transmissions have a desired operating temp just like most engines do and drastically increasing or lowering that temp can cause failure.
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Old 12-10-2014, 07:46 PM   #17 (permalink)
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Old 12-10-2014, 07:54 PM   #18 (permalink)
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all automatic transmissions want to live with their internals between 170 and 210*F. that's where ATF works. I agree with whoever mentioned 235/85-16 vs 215/85-16s. That's a difference of about 32" vs 30" height, or about 30 revs per mile. Not insignificant, like it would take 3.73s (3.79s technically) to make 235s pull like 215s would with 3.55s. If you have 235s and 3.55s you can get halfway to 4.10s just by swapping to the shorter tires, and if you swap gears and tires you're halfway to 4.56s vs where you are now. Your mpg and performance description suggests to me you might actually be 235 + 3.55. That would make for a dog.

Google the ignition upgrade that's so popular with fords of that vintage on the forums, "6 Liter" I think it's called.

Trans temp sending unit can be in the pan, a test port, or the line-out to the cooler. I agree trans heat can turn into engine heat real quick and cause problems. gauges make you smarter. a big block tow rig with an automatic deserves an auxillary trans cooler.

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Old 12-10-2014, 08:04 PM   #19 (permalink)
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Put a good valve body and a good converter in the trans and leave it. Who cares about the gears, just drop a gear in the trans. 2nd gear pulling hills with 3.55 is the same as D with 4.10's. Starting out is the only difference. You'll be better off when empty. Put a turbo kit, maybe a banks turbo kit instead of swapping a 5 speed. Radiator shop will test, clean and service the radiator also for probably $50. A turbo or something drastic is the only thing worth spending money on, everything else won't make enough difference. Sell the truck and buy a super duty 7.3.
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Old 12-10-2014, 08:13 PM   #20 (permalink)
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Anybody else want to take a stab at this?
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Old 12-10-2014, 08:19 PM   #21 (permalink)
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There are 3 big power robbers for the 460. #1 is the HUGE catalytic converter. Its a monster that is well known for fouling up and killing horsepower. First thing to get better power and fuel mileage is replace it with a new catalytic thats smaller and flows better. #2 is the intake crossover horn. Its the block looking thing that connects your two intake tubes.
You can see how it necks down. Just cut those down to where the restriction ends and it will free up a good amount of grunt.
#3, OBD1 460s were a first generation of fuel injection for that engine. They run VERY rich. Unlike later generations which fire the fuel injectors on a per cylinder basis, the OBDI computer simply fires the entire left bank, then the entire right bank of injectors at one time. Its stupid. There are companies that sell conversion kits to update it to the BODII Mass Air ecu and wiring. Thats good for 15hp and better mileage.
I have towed 4 tons behind my 92 f250hd before and it did it well. (mind you I had a Built transmission and bigger brakes) But with these mods the 460 chugged along without a problem.

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Old 12-10-2014, 08:38 PM   #22 (permalink)
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Since this thread has new life...

I just picked up this: 1994 F-350, 4x4 with 460/E4OD and 3.55 gears. It's stone stock and I'm just about to start modding it. First will probably be headers and exhaust, since the passenger manifold warped and the rear manifold bolt sheared off, the cat is rattling, and the stock muffler and tail pipes looks like they flow about as well as a drinking straw.
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Old 12-10-2014, 09:51 PM   #23 (permalink)
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^^Nice looking truck, always liked that color.
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Old 12-11-2014, 06:44 AM   #24 (permalink)
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I would highly recommend 3" exhaust at a minimum. Even on a 351 it makes a huge seat of the pants difference.
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Old 12-11-2014, 06:57 AM   #25 (permalink)
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This thread has really taken off with some good advice, probably just what the OP was looking for! You need an answer and PBB is here with all you could ever need, even if it does take four years to get them...
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