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Do you like my new stickers?

12K views 88 replies 11 participants last post by  FJLED 
#1 ·
Figured that's get one of the three viewer's attention.

Considering there's no other discussions occurring here, and I'm certain there will be no shortage of opinionated responses, I'll toss this in the ring for debate.

Preface with I'm mechanically challenged, when it comes to the discussion, or implementation of suspension design, theory, calculations, fabrication and installation, but I'm not a dumb ass. If the education and information is above the requesting of the members here, then I'll quietly revert back to lurking, as one of the three viewers on the FJ portion.

Attempting to determine the rear end, gearing, and locker combination, as part of an in process LT upgrade. All of the usual have been suggested, and have had many conversations with the other blue room participants that frequent this forum, but the more I delve into discussions with various vendors, the more I realize how ignorant I am.

Intend on maintaining the OEM linkage geometry, mounting locations, shock mounts, again for the previously stated lack of ability.

Let the flaming education begin. What is critical for determining what is necessary?
 
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#57 ·
I was going to reply to your post. I'll wing it.

There's a Pirate Forum Vendor in the area that I've spoken with about this, and future 4 link fabrication. He insinuated that, though he's unfamiliar with the FJ ABS/ESP accomodations made by Currie, he thought he could replicate with their assistance, on any rear end. The linkages would have to be added and it's an extra step, if maintaining the OEM linkage points.

My question in regards to, is there another rear that could be purchased economically enough, to justify the expense of setting up the OEM linkages on, by a fabricator?

Based on the replies here, there must be, and I'm open to. Will reference the thread to local shop for review.
 
#58 ·
Really need to better define the purpose of your FJ. It almost sounds like you are looking to make this more of an robust trail FJ thats still capable of driving on the road based on the questions.

Getting clarity on what you truely want to build and use it for will define your needs and whether OEM, standard currie housing, or brand x would be best suited. Based on your definition below you don't need an aftermarket axle or even to change the suspension geometry for any of that. Folks have been using their FJs for 5 years now for the exact purposes you've outlined and the vast majority of rear ends have held up fine...let alone the need for a 60 or 9.

銀チタン;13375564 said:
I've heard the term "expedition vehicle" to describe. More specifically, drive hundreds of highway miles to get to varying terrain. Primarily, see more rocks and trails, locally, but intend on traveling the desert south west.

Want to maintain the ABS functions, so maintaining stock brakes, and in the future, may (I'm frigging sure) do a 4 link and coilovers. For now, maintain the OEM linkage geometry.

Part of this process has been ensuring that the rear is permanent, for whatever suspension in finalized.
 
#59 ·
You make a valid point, and I think we can both agree that neither of us knew the total degree to which the builds would extend, or for what purpose, originally. I'm taking that into consideration with this aspect, based on that reason, and it's an attempt at easing into the inevitable, even though I can't say, with certainty, what that is.

To address specifically the thought progression, redoing the front and rear width should correspond. Going to run 35s, so need to re gear. Have to
regear, so add the front locker. Continue? TC? Crawlbox? 3-4 link?

The resounding purpose in all of this is to replace a known weak point, without limiting future suspension upgrade, to coincide with the progressiveness stated above.

Have encountered several instances where there was no way I was making it in current form. I don't care much for that scenario.
 
#64 ·
銀チタン;13402242 said:
Wider is better.

Assumed necessity/travel advantage for future rear linkage set up.

Wrong?
I am with you, I don't like spacers if you don't have to do them. That said, I don't think I would buy a whole new rear axle just to solve that problem. Per our discussions though, I know that is not the only reason you are considering a swap.
 
#65 · (Edited)
銀チタン;13402242 said:
Wider is better.

Assumed necessity/travel advantage for future rear linkage set up.

Wrong?
Not neccessarily. Again you don't gain any travel from a wider axle (on SA applications). Travel is your axle moving straight up and down. The only place you'd gain anything is articulation and it'd be minor.

Save yourself the money and just put some quality spacers on the rear axle to match whatever front suspension you run.

Once you decide if you actually want to modify your rear suspension geometry then start thinking about a new rear axle. Do the regearing and front locker if you decide to run an aftermarket rear axle. Hands down I'd still do a lefty or atlas transfer case before swapping rear axles for a "bolt in" replacement...imo that's your biggest bang for your buck since it buys you quite a bit more control..and is something you use every time you go offroad (ask FJC folks with front lockers how often they use them...there's a thread on the blue room where 1911 and mtbcoach discuss that point).

At least thats my 2 cents.
 
#71 · (Edited)
Don't over think issues like weight, wheel spacers, Etc. Paralysis/analysis. Who cares that an axle weighs 60lbs more/less on a 6k lb vehicle! It is unsprung weight and low. As far as strength HP vs LP etc. For crying out loud it's not a comp buggy and very few people will ever be able to put a 35 spl shaft to the test and by the way jeapardoning their full size FJ in places where it may have to be airlifted out to recover! So, don't waste time argueing weights etc. Buy quality parts, use strong links/brackets, good geometry and strong welds, and lastly "wheel the he'll out of it" that's it go buy parts and get fabbing!!! Oh, buy quality wheel spacers and you will probably be braking wheels before ever having problems with them. I have ran them on 42" rubber in both highway use and competions for several years with zero issues. Go build it.
 
#72 · (Edited)
It is unsprung weight and low.
:confused: Unsprung weight is going to make a bigger difference than sprung weight. For the most part I concur with everything else. However, at the same time I'd recommend to plan it out and do it right the first time (seeing as I am already planning to revamp my rear geometry and suspension down the line...even tho we haven't finished the 3 link on it yet).
 
#73 ·
FJled, being I am on my I phone, oh and on a beach on Hawaii! I will explain reasoning later. So fjled explain how you come up with that unsprung vs sprung weight!!!
 
#74 ·
The advantage to lots of low unsprung weight is lowering your CG keeping you more stable. Great for crawling...not so great for any type of high speed driving compared to less unsprung weight. More unsprung weight the more work for your suspension to control all that weight. Less unsprung weight the more effectively your shocks and springs can do their job - better on road or offroad at speed (ride quality).

All I said was that unsprung weight's going to make a bigger difference than sprung (pound for pound) in your suspensions peformance. Something we can both agree on?

Can fully appreciate the lower CG aspect with a heavy axle and it obviously has its application.
 
#76 ·
I have a high-pinion axle that was in an FJ-cruiser if you are interested. I was going to use it in my next project, but I may be willing to part if you want to make a deal.

The housing has 5.38 gears, a Detroit locker, factory fj-cruiser brakes and is a full floater with some spare shafts. I don't remember if it has the wheel speed sensors or not. I'd have to check.

pm me if you are interested.
it is in paso robles area of CA.
 
#78 ·
銀チタン;13409775 said:
Care to expound? I'm all ears, and not limiting to a bolt on option.
I would start by looking into different housing and differential options. Read through the build threads. Then get a hold of currie and see if you could just purchase the pieces you need to make the sensors and all that stuff work. I am a big fan of the Ruffstuff Housings. They are much cheaper than a currie housing as well, Almost half the price if I interpret both websites correctly.
 
#80 ·
Ford 9 with ARB, regardless of gearing, HP or LP, or anything else as a bolt on (the axles aren't assembled to swap OEM brakes)

$4,426.10 which is an easy $800 than the All Pro website claims for RJ60.

The offer above that you expressed interest in I'm not familiar enough with any of this to determine what's even offered.

Class in session? Can someone explain?
 
#83 ·
In regards to front CVs, my drive for going to RCV axles was that the OEM inboard joint was maxed out before full bump or droop on the rest of the Camburg kit. The biggest value for me was the increased travel. The side benefit was a stronger axle setup overall (930 inner and 60 outer with heat treated internals and shafts from my understanding).

However, this is not the typical axle they marketed for the FJC. The one they offered previously I think did use a 930 inner, but the outer was still a rzeppa joint. Both had various internals upgraded with chrom-moly parts. I still haven't got a clear answer on why RCV stopped offering these.


The concern the upgraded axles bring is whether or not they now let go first or now if your r&p does instead.

In general the OEM CVs hold up well enough for most folks. Failures tend to be when folks have got their wheels locked and are applying substantial loads from what I've seen and the retainer cage gives.
 
#85 ·



Speaking of RCV axles.
After breaking 3 axles and weighing the cost difference between cromoly shafts with $300 u joints and the RCV axles went with the RCV.
Got a great price thru a friend's shop.
Now I have a $3500+ Dana 44.
Should have started with a 60 or diamond or the like.

Going to see how it goes.
 
#87 · (Edited)
In regards to the front and locker. Depending on what gears you go with and the material, I'd probably have them heat treated as an extra measure of saftey if funds allow for it. Something I wish I had done before having Dave toss my gear set it.

That way if you ever do end up upgrading axles you at least have a bit more reassurance on the front r&p.

I may still end up buying a spare fron R&P and heat treat them or a tundra front clamshell and gear set (still waiting to get measurements from folks on this tho to see how much fabrication it require and if it fits within the space available).
 
#88 ·
Yes, I have decided to hold off on RCVs until the CVs inevitably break. Further, I am definately going to get the front R&P cryo'd if those ever go. In the mean time, why has no one found a good solution for the tie rods. I know All Pro made the HD kit; however, I heard it splayed your tires outwards and created some bump steer. I may do some playing after the new year to try something else.
 
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