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Old 02-01-2008, 07:44 PM   #1 (permalink)
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Lake Alpine / Slick Rock Trail

I want to re-open that killer trail that skirts the private property at Lake Alpine. I left it alone last year, but I see the forest orders have been postponed until at least December 2008...anyone game??? I want to quietly schedule a weekend to open/maintain the trail, looking at late May.

and...they cleared me of Federal NEPA violations for being involved in the clearing of that old skid road...so screw them.

email me at:

putatireonit@hotmail.com


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Old 02-02-2008, 08:44 PM   #2 (permalink)
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So you are wanting to wheel on a known closed trail?
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Old 02-04-2008, 11:34 AM   #3 (permalink)
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Closed without due process

The trail in question was originally used by logger to skid out downed timber. Slick Rock Road (unfortunately) splits a piece of private property, and NOBODY was smart enough to retain a Right of Way (ROW). A couple years ago the property changed hands and the new owners want to close the road at the property line. Because no ROW was retained by the county or the USFS, nobody can tell them not to close the road.

The trail in question was originally planned by the USFS as a re-route to go around the private property. The USFS trails coordinator walked the trail with us before it was improved (because it was there...just in really bad shape) and approved the improvements before was started.

A LOT of work was done to improve the trail, and it quickly became a favorite with 4-wheelers that could handle the trail, because it is fairly difficult and challenging. The campgrounds were full all summer...even mid week, stuffed with Jeeps and crawler rigs. It was an awesome sight!!!

THEN...a couple of non-motorized activists heard about the trail and began the typical campaign to close it down. Of course, we all know the USFS is NOT a land management agency, but rather an environmental group paid by the Federal Government to dictate how, when, and where you are allowed to be in the National Forest.

The trail was temporarily closed for what they called "erosion" at the first creek crossing. That was a made up excuse to close down the trail. Get this..they took an excavator into the creek and dug out boulders, piling them up to try and keep us out. That's a big NO NO...digging rocks out of creek beds is strictly prohibited.

And here's a warning: The entire designated route crap the forest service is pulling right now is just a trick to have you show them all your favorite trails, so they can make a big map and call it the "proposed" inventory. Before it is approved, they have all these meetings where the non-motorized groups whine and complain, and more than half your trails will be cut from the inventory., forcing all the OHV activity to a smaller area. THEN, after they issue forest orders, all the area between what is left will be "Managed as Wilderness". As they determine a trail has "undue erosion" or that OHV use is causing "environmental damage" or impacting a "known fur bearer breeding habitat"...they close down that trail, lost forever to the land use Nazzis of the USFS.

Do you think this is my first time around on this carousel? After the FS approved the trail, then closed it down...they actually sent an investigator out to question me for possible prosecution for what they called "NEPA violations." I refused to answer any of their questions and they decided to close the investigation. Here is what I learned: If you voice your opinion, and they don't like it...they will screw with you and make your life as difficult as they can. They even tried to tell me that I could not go to any more meetings, because I asked them if they could force their Federal Land Management Practice BS on county ROW roads? They refused to answer...I demanded an answer, they did not like that.

Slick Rock Road is an Alpine County ROW. Taken back by RS-2477 many years ago.

The Stanislaus NF has postponed the issuing of Forest Orders until at least December 2008...so enjoy the forest while you can, and do NOT let the forest Nazzis bully you around. Go to all the meetings about the "route inventory"...and voice your opinion LOUDLY!

Anyone who ran this trail at Lake Alpine / Slick Rock knows how good it was, and will want to go out with me.



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Old 02-04-2008, 11:54 AM   #4 (permalink)
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So you are wanting to wheel on a known closed trail?
The USFS actually has to go through a process to close a trail. They did not go through any process, no justification, no environmental impact stuff...just a couple of complaints from non-motorized activists. And there are plenty of them around the Lake Alpine basin.

No, I do not want to wheel on a "known closed trail." I respect closures, and Wilderness boundaries, when due process is followed. They (the Stanislaus NF district) has repeatedly closed areas to motorized use for no reason, other than to put a buffer around the 2 existing wilderness areas (Mokelumne and Carson Iceberg). Buffers were not written into the Wilderness act, and the designation of "Near Natural" is simply a way to create a buffer. First they close all the roads in an area, then they call it a "roadless" area, then the completely close it down.

Unless you have been in the middle of one of these closures, you have no idea what they will do to prevent you from being there with your 4X4, Motorcycle, SUV...they don't care. Motorized use is bad, in their opinion...and whenever possible, they prohibit the use of motorized vehicles wherever they can. Then they don't have to "manage" the area. Managed as Wilderness means - No management at all.

It will happen to you if you sit back on your heels and don't pay attention. One day you will show up at your favorite trail head and there will be a big sign marked CLOSED (for environmental restoration) or...a small sign with a USFS-LE behind it waiting to write you a $1K citation for being where prohibited with a motorized vehicle.


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Old 02-04-2008, 11:55 PM   #5 (permalink)
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Slick rock is closed? I just ran it this summer, is this another trail branched off of it or something im super confused.

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Old 02-05-2008, 07:24 AM   #6 (permalink)
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Corral Hollow Kid,

Would you please repost this in the Land Use section?

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Old 03-05-2008, 05:49 PM   #7 (permalink)
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This trail is as good as it get's

Im with you
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Old 03-08-2008, 07:25 AM   #8 (permalink)
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Grrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrr!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

I live in arnold im so down to fight these fuc*&ing pus*%y A*% retired people complaning about there walking trails.Sorry for the language but they need to just leaves us be out in the forest. The slickrock trail before it was a logging trail was a old horse carriage trail as i hear very old roots. But i definalety think we should get a group togother and stop the forestry(usfs) from shutting this trail down, and hardly anyone is out there besides 4x4s. I beleive this the same people that complanied and shut down a place called penny pines in arnold. Im standing up for are rights to wheel and im pissed theyre not going to push us out. Lets get flyers and petition going something lets stop this, we cant just wait around tell they take it away we need to take action.

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Old 03-09-2008, 09:35 AM   #9 (permalink)
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Access & Snow Melt

Well...There was a recent Supreme Court ruling that says the USFS can no longer close down historic roads to motorized access. AND...since Slick Rock Road is actually an Alpine County Right of Way, the access is protected. Sort of. The issue is a private property parcel near Lake Alpine. Evidently nobody ever kept a right of way through the property, and RS-2477 does not apply to private property. Technically, the owners of the property can close that section of the road.

Here is the kicker...we cleared (with the permission and supervision of the USFS) some old logging roads that go around the private property parcel. 90% of that trail is fairly benign. The other 10% is level 10, most challenging stuff on the planet type wheeling!!!

As you guessed it...some retired, anti-motorized, opinionated youknowwhat, complained to the USFS and they made up a BS reason and closed the short section of trail that goes around the private property. That is the section that I want to re-open. It was a skid road to begin with, I mean give me a break! That area needs to be logged again anyhow!!!

I'll post more here as the highway is plowed, and the snow melts off. Cal Trans will begin clearing highway 4 on Tuesday, March 25.

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Old 03-09-2008, 10:08 AM   #10 (permalink)
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March 25 thats like 15 days away.. so corral hollow kid when the highway is cleared to alpine lake the slick rock trail is reopened for summer? and can you get away w/ green sticker ohv on slick rock trail? thanks

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Old 03-09-2008, 09:18 PM   #11 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Corral Hollow Kid View Post
I want to re-open that killer trail that skirts the private property at Lake Alpine.
Is this the same trail BK was working on with you?

Give'm hell !!!
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Old 03-11-2008, 02:37 PM   #12 (permalink)
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Green Sticker

The answer is Yes. Slick Rock Road is an Alpine County Right of Way, and Alpine County has not placed any restrictions on ANY of the roads we have jurisdiction over. So Green Sticker OHV Activity is a go on ANY county ROW road!!!

I have been told by several people that a USFS LE was telling people they could not park their trailers at the "slab" area near Utica Reservoir. That is incorrect, and a violation of your right to recreate in Alpine County.

Due to a very recent incident which involved the USFS doing law enforcement on Highway 4 near the east end of Lake Alpine, a political question was asked and answered; Since the USFS does NOT have an MOU (memorandum of understanding) with Alpine County, do they have the legal authority to perform law enforcement on roadways which they do NOT have a right of way? The answer was NO. The USFS CANNOT perform law enforcement within Alpine County, unless they are on lands declared to be part of the USFS NF system. That means they need to be in the forest, or at a designated USFS staging area, not on a road that has a ROW taken back by Alpine County. Therefore, the signs they have been posting year after year, the ones that say "STREET LEGAL VEHICLES ONLY" and from Spicer Road "NO GREEN STICKER OPPORTUNITIES BEYOND THIS POINT" have technically been a violation of your rights. I have pointed this out to them over and over, but they really don't care...to them OHVs are bad.

And here's one better; ANYBODY WHO HAS BEEN WRITTEN A CITATION ON SLICK ROCK ROAD BY THE USFS HAS BEEN UNLAWFULLY DETAINED/ARRESTED, AND YOUR CIVIL RIGHTS HAVE BEEN VIOLATED BY THE FEDERAL GOVERNMENT.

I know...surprise surprise, right? Not only is Slick Rock Road an Alpine County ROW, so is the Deer Valley Trail (between Hermit Valley and Blue Lakes), Pacific Valley Road all the way to the upper shelf (even though the USFS marks it "Wilderness" at the end of the lower shelf...the actual Wilderness boundary is at the top of the ridge ABOVE the upper shelf), Highlands Lakes Road (all the way into the lakes), and a gaggle of others on the east slope that nobody is even aware of.

This question actually got me into a lot of hot water and put me at #1 on their hit list for quite some time; Can the USFS force their Federal land management practice policies on roads which they do not have a valid right of way? At the public meeting where I asked the question they tried to give a vague, around the bush answer. When I forced the issue...it went downhill from there. I was actually visited by an investigator and threatened with numerous criminal charges. Eventually it was all dropped (because I did not break the law, simply used my first amendment right and voiced my opinion), but they tried (unsuccessfully!) to intimidate me...even tried to cause trouble with my employer. Fortunately my supervisor is very pro-motorized use, and backed my position...or I would probably have been disciplined and lost my job!

I say it again... the USFS

PS- yes smurf, that's the same trail.
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Old 03-11-2008, 02:43 PM   #13 (permalink)
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Highway 4 projected opening

I talked to CalTrans yesterday (3-10-08) and they said plowing on Highway 4 will begin on March 31.

Yippie!!! Over Snow Wheelin!!!

I rode my snowmobile down Slick Rock a couple days ago...the river is REALLY high right now...it might be hard to cross without a snorkel.

I'll keep posting condition updates.
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Old 03-12-2008, 04:48 PM   #14 (permalink)
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Awsome the sign that says "STREET LEGAL VEHICLES ONLY" and from Spicer Road "NO GREEN STICKER OPPORTUNITIES BEYOND THIS POINT" always got me nervous with my green sticker rig thanks for clearing that up. I bet all that sunshine and snowmelt'n is really gettin the river going. Keep the updates coming i got no snowmobile to go check it for myself.Slick Rock+Wheeling+Fishing+Camping=

ohh yah
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Old 03-15-2008, 09:14 AM   #15 (permalink)
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trail......

The SLICKROCK trail is a HUGE part of my and my familys life and we do not want to see it go! My club and myself "SLICKROCK MAFIA CRAWLERS" would like to offer any help we can towards keeping the trail open as long as its legal and within the RULES! In the past the "MAFIA" has been at times a little wild on the trail and that just does not work! Myself personally , I have been the target of " RANGER BIRDS WRATH" ,and I DO NOT CARE FOR HER ONE BIT!!!!
My truck ,tow rig, has been ticketed for illegal parking,275.00 each time,parked in the middle of BFE for no reason!!! My rock buggy with green sticker had been turned away from the trail SEVERAL times eventually causing me to sell it to shed some of the F@#$ing hassles!! The funny thing is , is that memorial weekend officers were in there with ATVs which the green sticker rule was meant to keep out in the first place ,WTF!! I would like to say however that said officers were WAY COOL, and looked to be enjoying themselves, rangers attitude however remains SHITTY! Anyway seems like Corral Hollw Kid seems to know his shit , and we would like to offer our support!!! KKEP OUR TRAILS OPEN!!!
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Old 03-15-2008, 02:35 PM   #16 (permalink)
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have any pics of the trail??? just to get an idea of what slickrock looks like before it got closed
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Old 03-16-2008, 04:30 PM   #17 (permalink)
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No pics that I no of, But some of the the most hard core wheeling that I have ever done!
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Old 03-16-2008, 07:46 PM   #18 (permalink)
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Here are some pics from a buddy who ran it last summer:
http://www.jeepaholics.com/support/t...ick,rock,trail
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Old 03-17-2008, 10:42 AM   #19 (permalink)
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a couple more pics

a couple more pics...my friends.

http://www.mediamax.com/corralhollow...1-00_0001w.jpg

http://www.mediamax.com/corralhollow...Crw_2974_w.jpg

http://www.mediamax.com/corralhollow...Crw_2989_w.jpg

http://www.mediamax.com/corralhollow...Crw_3034_w.jpg


Oh yeah, a pic of my POS...

http://www.mediamax.com/corralhollow...Crw_3665_w.jpg


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Old 03-18-2008, 01:19 AM   #20 (permalink)
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That looks like an awesome trail, Now I really want to wheel there before it closes
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Old 03-25-2008, 07:28 PM   #21 (permalink)
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snow update.....

I went up to the sno park parking lot to check on the snow situation today and there is ALOT! I can hardly wait to go wheeling, am having heavy withdrawals and must get out there ! Seems like a nighttime wheeling trip is in order very very soon !
Leave the parking lot about 8:00 pm and wheel all night , thats one hell of a good time ,Ill tell you what!!!!
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Old 03-25-2008, 08:53 PM   #22 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by slickrock209 View Post
... and hardly anyone is out there besides 4x4s.
Jeff

I've spent many, many weekends on this trail going back several years. There have always been a hiking contingent on the trail. Over the past 5+ years, they've largley been trying to start chit, complaining about noise, erosion, etc.. On avg, about the only time I didn't come across a hikers on Slick Rock, has been when wheeling during the week.
The proximity to Lake Alpine, short length, easy difficulty, and beauty of this trail make it a lure to all nature lovers, including hikers.

I encourage all 'wheelers to greet hikers with the kind of respect they would enjoy from a total stranger, when they are on the trail. Animosity will detract from all positive efforts to share this gem of the Sierra.
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Old 03-27-2008, 08:18 PM   #23 (permalink)
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ownership.......

Im sure this is going to get negative feedback ,but here goes anyway I was reading a thread from Mr. Albright[san juaquin jeepers site] where it was stated that they,sjj, do not let sedimentation nor erosion affect the river. Let me get this straight, what have you EVER done to prevent this !? Last year when a group of friends and myself were heading to the top of the trail ,we were told to pull off the trail because the San Juaquin jeepers were coming through, are you f@#$ing kidding me? After several run ins with them i found that they conduct themselves with a air of superiority, and they continually rub locals the wrong way On average the same locals who grew up on that trail their whole lives, pick up trash, clean up after themselves and others and enforce the rules of safe wheeling far more days annually than that godlike club " SJJ". I have personally met Mr. Albright and have found him to be extremely nice and approachable, the club ,or some members ,can take hints from him! We were up there about 40 days last season cleaning and clearing,how many days did we run into each other
And yes there were a lot of EXTRA rocks on the ladder or stairs for your run
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Old 03-29-2008, 12:42 PM   #24 (permalink)
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Slick Rock=home

Yah i though i seen a couple guys out there moving rocks out of the way hillarious its suppopsed to be challinging. ohh well. my buddy says the snows meltn fast up there hopefully it didnt snow last night?
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Old 03-30-2008, 11:51 AM   #25 (permalink)
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Ownership Denied!!!

I live 5 minutes from the trailhead...not just in the winter or summer, but year round. I work for Alpine County, and I can guarantee that I spend more cumulative time on that trail that most you all combined. I am out there every weekend, except when I'm out on the Rubicon. I see activity that just makes me shake my head. Shameful stuff like making new trails, off the main trail. I have run into some real arrogant buttheads out there. But the majority of the guys are down to earth, good people, who are there for the recreation and the experience of the run.

That being said...the USFS (Oh yeah...) likes to think that they have ownership of that trail. The real deal is that Slick Rock Road is an Alpine County Right of Way. The USFS created this "adopt a trail" program, which simply meant they push the trail maintenance off onto a club of some type, so they don't have to put in the time or effort to clear and maintain the trail. Since Slick Rock Road is an Alpine County ROW, it is the responsibility of Alpine County to clear and maintain the road, NOT the USFS, or any singular club or organization. NOBODY owns the Slick Rock!!!

The time and effort put into clearing and maintaining the trail is deeply appreciated. But clearing those "obstacles" off the trail so vehicles that are NOT properly equipped to handle the difficulty level is really lame. Stacking rocks is like stacking the deck. It should not be done.

Bottom line...nobody owns Slick Rock Road. We all do our part to help keep the trail clear and clean. I too get tired of picking up trash left behind by the hikers . So stop complaining and just have fun. We should all have the same goal...run your rig up and down the trail, and have fun.

Now - that being said...I would like to establish a formal day for us to all get together and "open" the trail. The snow that fell did not count...it was gone by the next afternoon. Cal-Trans is going to start plowing Highway 4 on April 7, and as far as I can tell...Spicer Reservoir Road (7N01) is no longer being maintained and is therefore fair game for snow moshing!!!

Sometime in early to mid May would be good...weather and snowfall permitting. I will personally be out on the trail in the next couple of weeks. I don't know how far I'll be able to get, but I'll post updates here. Anybody else want to help organize an event? A day of trail clearing, followed by a bar-b-q??? Rules as follows: Have fun, NO COMPLAINING, have even more fun!!!

Let me know!

PS - I am very impressed by the interest taken in this trail, as shown in this forum. Keep it up!!!
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