KOH Formula Toy Class

[mtbrjon]

Originally Posted by JeepRecoveryTeam

This is how I feel too. If I only had a vote

X3 but I don't have a vote either.....

[MT4Runner]

Originally Posted by maveric

Do we have to purchase the radios and GPS before the event (Im assuming so) or at the site? What about the antennea and mount? Tracker?

Radio/GPS is not required equipment, but is a good idea for communicating with your pits (and other FToys!) and for safety. If you roll, you'll probably munch your antenna, but it's nice that "the other guy" who stops to help you can radio for outside assistance if needed. You can hack a Ham radio and add an antenna for about $180. PM me for info. If you want an intercom, save your nickels and buy one from Rugged, starting at about $400.

Prepay for your IRC tracker before the race so you know you'll get one. Find a used antenna/mount on race-dezert.com.

Originally Posted by blazen91

Keep the stock rules other than the shocks and safety eqipment.

It's that little "other than" in your statement that is the slippery slope.

"Other than" shocks-air bumps-rear disconnects-turbos-linked front-linked rear....all of which, by themselves seem perfectly reasonable to the person suggesting them, but when added together seem like an extra $20k when you don't have any of them yet.

"Jeez, that's too much, if only 'they' would allow the addition of one item."
Everybody's "one additional item" is different.

[maveric]

Sorry if I appear stupid (you should see me in person ) but I just want to make sure I have this right. Radios are not required, but recommended. I just need a ham or vhf radio (or 2) so I can talk to my pit or chase vehicle, correct? Is handheld or vehicle mounted better? Do we get to pick our own frequencies, or are they assigned? I already have intercoms from cone dodging, but they are not adaptable to any radios, so I either have to buy a "kit" or have 2 headsets per helmet (sounds cumbersome).
Is the GPS just to make following the course easier, or do racers input obstacles into them? Is as larger display better?

Thanks

[maveric]

Originally Posted by JeepRecoveryTeam

This is how I feel too. If I only had a vote

So who is deciding on the final rules?
The old ftoy BOD?
The KOH promoter?

[MT4Runner]

I was going to tell you to PM me, but I'll post up in case anyone else had the same questions:

Originally Posted by maveric

Radios are not required, but recommended. I just need a ham or vhf radio (or 2) so I can talk to my pit or chase vehicle, correct?

Again, recommended, but not required. CB or FRS radios would work..but not work well. VHF gets used a ton by desert racers because it flat out works.

Originally Posted by maveric

Is handheld or vehicle mounted better?

Handheld sucks for this use because you're limited by battery power to the wattage you can transmit. Handhelds are generally no more than 5W, where you can get mobile in up to 50W-75W-110W flavors. 50W works fine.

Originally Posted by maveric

Do we get to pick our own frequencies, or are they assigned?

You're supposed to talk to an FC C-licensed frequency coordinator to get a frequency you'll be licensed to use in your area, and getting a frequency coordinated and licensed will run $400-800. Pick one that nobody else is using and don't use Taco Bell's, the local police department's, or the Hilton's housekeeping frequency.

DADT

Originally Posted by maveric

I already have intercoms from cone dodging, but they are not adaptable to any radios, so I either have to buy a "kit" or have 2 headsets per helmet (sounds cumbersome).

IMHO, you won't be talking to your pits all that often while you're racing, unless you're a chatty-cathy. If you're stopped/broke, a handheld mic is easier to use with your helmet off. You don't really need the headset in your helmet. Put a mobile in your dash and turn its speaker volume way up. Stick the handheld mic under the front of your helmet to speak. Not perfect, but there are a zillion other things you're going to be spending your money on. Buying a different intercom that you can integrate your race radio for another $400 isn't money well spent, (and this is coming from a radio nerd) especially when you already have an intercom for driver-codawg comms.

If your cone-dodging intercom is a Bluetooth setup, there's the Yaesu FTM-10R ham radio that you can install Bluetooth chips in, and use it for both intercom and radio functions, but it takes quite a bit of electronic/wiring/circuit fuckery. The built-in intercom sucks (volume-wise) in a wired application, but might be OK with your helmet-mounted BT's. I know quite a few BMW and Goldwing-riding Hams put them on their bikes.

Originally Posted by maveric

Is the GPS just to make following the course easier, or do racers input obstacles into them? Is as larger display better?

GPS will make following the course 1000x easier. The promoter will give you the file they used to set the course.
When you prerun, you can input obstacles. Many do.
Larger is better, but not necessary. Bigger screen is more necessary if your codawg gets motion sickness.

Originally Posted by maveric

So who is deciding on the final rules?
The old ftoy BOD?
The KOH promoter?

I would assume that since Dave is letting FToys race when they don't exactly meet the rules of either Stock or Mod classes, that he has a say.

I'd suggest that the BOD (maybe with some updated directors from among the pool of people who have competed in FToys recently) make a final call so people can start building for the race in 10.5 months.

[maveric]

Thanks for the input.

I will give you a call/pm if I have any questions.

[Air Ride]

The final call is F-toy rules with exception of shocks.

Shocks can be any make or model, one shock per wheel. Air bumps are considered shocks.

[JeepRecoveryTeam]

Originally Posted by Air Ride

The final call is F-toy rules with exception of shocks.

Shocks can be any make or model, one shock per wheel. Air bumps are considered shocks.

2.5" max diameter per the rules of the race. 14" stroke

[blazen91]

Originally Posted by MT4Runner

It's that little "other than" in your statement that is the slippery slope.

"Other than" shocks-air bumps-rear disconnects-turbos-linked front-linked rear....all of which, by themselves seem perfectly reasonable to the person suggesting them, but when added together seem like an extra $20k when you don't have any of them yet.

I agree, my 'other than' would be shocks. No turbos, no links, etc. The only big money thing is the stage 5 engines people would build, but I see way of stopping that. The rest of us will just have to hope they break something with all the h/p!! I spent some time around the circle track when I was younger and the Stock Pony Class (Ford Pintos and Mustang 2's) were pretty strick on engine builds. But I'm not sure on how to regulate it.

The other thing to watch it the 1600 class. It used to be a very basic class and cheap to run. Then allowed this mod, then that mod. Now even the 1600 class is expensive to run. The rules should be writen and not changed unless for safety. Keep the car cheap.

[blazen91]

Originally Posted by Air Ride

The final call is F-toy rules with exception of shocks.

Shocks can be any make or model, one shock per wheel. Air bumps are considered shocks.

So just to dumb it down for an Army guy, "air bumps are considered shocks" and "one per wheel", means we can not run shocks and air bumps on the same wheel?

[mtbrjon]

Bilstein metric equivalent is ok so you can run the 9100 shocks if you want.

[mtbrjon]

Originally Posted by blazen91

I agree, my 'other than' would be shocks. No turbos, no links, etc. The only big money thing is the stage 5 engines people would build, but I see way of stopping that. The rest of us will just have to hope they break something with all the h/p!! I spent some time around the circle track when I was younger and the Stock Pony Class (Ford Pintos and Mustang 2's) were pretty strick on engine builds. But I'm not sure on how to regulate it.

The other thing to watch it the 1600 class. It used to be a very basic class and cheap to run. Then allowed this mod, then that mod. Now even the 1600 class is expensive to run. The rules should be writen and not changed unless for safety. Keep the car cheap.

Blueprinted and sealed crate engine is the only fair way to have complete control on engines but that is so not practical for this class. Everybody would be required to purchase their engine from a specific builder or one of 2 or 3 builders. Aside from that the "claimer" rules would be the next best. If that becomes a class rule I'm running a junkyard engine and bringing some cash with me for after the race!

[MT4Runner]

Originally Posted by JeepRecoveryTeam

2.5" max diameter per the rules of the race. 14" stroke

I'm gonna start watching for a used set.
(still not racing!!)



I want tunable shocks, and want to keep my rig legal.

[Air Ride]

If it is determined that the big dollar motors are dominating the class an engine "claimer rule" will be implemented. For the first few years it wont be a problem. The Marlin Crawler F-toy beat 75% of the field with less 25% of the HP for 4 years.

[maveric]

OK, so next questions. do the ftoys run the same day as the big race? And do we have to qualify to run, or is having an ftoy the qualification?
What is the entry fee for the ftoys?

[Air Ride]

Originally Posted by maveric

OK, so next questions. do the ftoys run the same day as the big race? And do we have to qualify to run, or is having an ftoy the qualification?
What is the entry fee for the ftoys?

Refer to first post.

F-toys will be in the Every Man Challenge.

[maveric]

Thanks

[Mr Roxy]

Well I am out then. No way I am going back to leafs and ditching shocks. Not that my car is a threat as ftoys on leafs seam to keep beating my car. Oh well, I think it is back to rec wheelin for me, this ultra4 shit is just getting to expensive to keep up with.

[desertoy]

HMMM, if I were to enter this race, this is what I would do.

If you are running propane, get someone to help you tune it. it seems like all propane systems run great but are lacking on power. I am positive that can be tuned out. If you replumb the system with a ball valve to switch from tank to tank you need to buy BIG fittings. Otherwise it will limit the volume and make your low power problem worse. Don't hook 2 tanks together unless you plan on bringing 6 spares and changing both of them out at every pit.

My stock 22RE with an LC cam and SDS fuel management system ran great and had pleanty of power for a leaf sprung rig.
If you don't have a fuel cell you will need one. A Jazz cell in a metal can from Poly Performance is probably your best bet. 14 gallon is barely adequate. 16 - 22gal. is good.
A pickup hose inthe tank that slides from side to side will not last. I would recommend an intank pump or at least 2 walbro pickups going to an external pump. Pumps should be mounted vertically. I run an accumulator tank. You can do your own research because there are alot of opinions on fuel systems.

A fuel pressure gauge is your friend.

More later

[chvyhs]

Originally Posted by Mr Roxy

Well I am out then. No way I am going back to leafs and ditching shocks. Not that my car is a threat as ftoys on leafs seam to keep beating my car. Oh well, I think it is back to rec wheelin for me, this ultra4 shit is just getting to expensive to keep up with.

I'm with you on this one. I like my links way too much. I'm going to stick with drag racing. I will be there to cheer the rest of the FToys on.

[Mr Roxy]

Originally Posted by chvyhs

I'm with you on this one. I like my links way too much. I'm going to stick with drag racing. I will be there to cheer the rest of the FToys on.

I might or might not be there, depending on uncle sam, but if I am there I will help out anywhere I can. Glad this came around, but wish it was a few years sooner.

[mtbrjon]

Originally Posted by Mr Roxy

I might or might not be there, depending on uncle sam, but if I am there I will help out anywhere I can. Glad this came around, but wish it was a few years sooner.

You have the rig. You don't have to drive 2000 miles to get there like some of us. I say run it with the Ftoys. You just won't get scored but you'll certainly have more fun running with these guys than with the big boys.

[MT4Runner]

Originally Posted by Mr Roxy

Well I am out then. No way I am going back to leafs and ditching shocks.

Originally Posted by chvyhs

I'm with you on this one. I like my links way too much. I'm going to stick with drag racing. I will be there to cheer the rest of the FToys on.

Run mine.


...but I'll need to borrow one of your rigs to get on top of Fissure to run the radio.

[Mr Roxy]

Originally Posted by MT4Runner

Run mine.


...but I'll need to borrow one of your rigs to get on top of Fissure to run the radio.

Well it says 1 2.5 shock per corner, could put the bypasses on your rig.

I don't know, we will see what comes around.

[blazen91]

Originally Posted by Mr Roxy

Well it says 1 2.5 shock per corner, could put the bypasses on your rig.

That's what I was thinking!!