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Old 03-01-2006, 11:34 AM   #1 (permalink)
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Permitted Axles List

I think we should have a list of the permitted axles from particular vehicles to address any further questions.

As I see it:

Allowed
79-85 Front
79-85 Rear
86-95 Rear

Replacement Housings are permitted.

Not Allowed
Any FJ 40, 60 or 80 Axle, front or rear
No Tacoma axles, or 96+ 4runner axles.
No Dually Toyota Axles (U-Haul axle)
No Tundra or T-100 axles.

3rd Members that are allowed:
Fj80 Front 8" Hypinion/E-locker versions
79-95 Toyota 4 cyl and 6 cylinder 8" 3rds
8" E-locker from 96+ Tacoma/4runner

Not allowed:
FJ80 Rear
FJ 60 3rds
FJ 40 3rds
Tundra/Tacoma Non-Elocker 3rds. Easily distinguishable as the 3rd member bolt pattern is a larger than the 8" 3rd. All the studs along the housing would need to be relocated, unlike the two require for the e-locker swap.

My opinion is that custom widths should not be allowed, as it defeats the spec concept. If someone wants to go wider, let them use spacers or different backspacing on their wheels.
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Last edited by CronusTRD; 03-01-2006 at 11:39 AM.
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Old 03-01-2006, 11:50 AM   #2 (permalink)
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I have a problem with 2 things.

3rd Members that are allowed:
8" E-locker from 96+ Tacoma/4runner

and

My opinion is that custom widths should not be allowed

The only problem with custom widths is that it opened a hug can of contraversy.

As far as I know the 96+ tacoma 8" will not fit in a stock 79-85 housing.
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Old 03-01-2006, 11:53 AM   #3 (permalink)
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Why? What is your reasoning?
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Old 03-01-2006, 12:17 PM   #4 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by desertoy
As far as I know the 96+ tacoma 8" will not fit in a stock 79-85 housing.

Neither does an FJ80. Both have different bolt patterns from the stock housing (two studs) and require the same housing mods.

Hell, the gaskets are the same, just flipped different directions.
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Old 03-01-2006, 04:45 PM   #5 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by CronusTRD
Neither does an FJ80. Both have different bolt patterns from the stock housing (two studs) and require the same housing mods.

Hell, the gaskets are the same, just flipped different directions.
Killing this now. The bolt pattern for hi and low pinion are IDENTICAL.
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Old 03-01-2006, 04:50 PM   #6 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by desertoy

3rd Members that are allowed:
8" E-locker from 96+ Tacoma/4runner

As far as I know the 96+ tacoma 8" will not fit in a stock 79-85 housing.
ya, the original rules werent meant to allow taco thirds. they need to be expounded on to exclude the taco 8" third.
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Old 03-01-2006, 04:56 PM   #7 (permalink)
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The rule book is going to end up looking like the LA phone book.
Just put this blanket statement in the rules
"If it didn't come off of an 79 to ?? you cant use it unless the rules specifically state that you can"
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Old 03-01-2006, 05:02 PM   #8 (permalink)
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Since aftermarket housings are allowed, In my opinion that means ANY housing is allowed. No need to make a list of which is and which isint.

Front needs to have 79-85 PU/4rnr KNUKLES, birfs and 8"r&p.
If you can get all that on any housing it should meet the requirements.

Rear needs to have 8" R&p and toy drum brakes.

I dont see a need to add any more details.

Everyone knows or should know which 3rds are allowed and which arent.

Hobies allready been over the reasoning behind allowing any width.

As far as changing any rules I dont think any rules should be changed untill the season is over.
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Old 03-01-2006, 05:45 PM   #9 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Brian Ellinger
Killing this now. The bolt pattern for hi and low pinion are IDENTICAL.

That's not true. For example, the gaskets are mirror images of each other and two different part numbers. The difference is small however.

http://4-low.com/temp/e-locker-differences.gif

From my understanding, regular V6 gears you would use in a pre-tacoma carrier would fit the e-locker carrier, so where is the difference what would exclude it? What makes the FJ80 locker acceptable, and the Tacoma locker unacceptable. I'm just not seeing the logic here.

Camo had addressed this before the class even began

Quote:
Originally Posted by Foxfab
I'll put in another vote for YES TO EFI. I'd have a hard time pulling it off of my Legends class truck if I were to someday build it to this class.

Also, I havent had the time to sift through everything but the outline states only aftermarket lockers are allowed. Does this mean no OEM lockers are allowed?
Quote:
Originally Posted by camo
any locker allowed
Why would this have changed?

http://www.pirate4x4.com/forum/showp...&postcount=364
http://www.pirate4x4.com/forum/showp...&postcount=365
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Old 03-01-2006, 09:25 PM   #10 (permalink)
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The fj80 third, non-elocker will bolt right up with no issues. The e-locker third needs some modification.

The issue your talking about above and Camo saying any locker is allowed, in my opion refers to the locker itself, not the complete third. FWIW


Why is everyone fighting the rules so much here. They are what they are. Live with it.
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Old 03-02-2006, 07:17 AM   #11 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by a2b
ya, the original rules werent meant to allow taco thirds. they need to be expounded on to exclude the taco 8" third.

Then why allow the high pinion e-locker FJ80 thirds? It would be no different than running a low pinion Taco E-locker third. Both would require modification to the housing to allow them. Kinda makes no sense to exclude one without the other.
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Old 03-02-2006, 07:44 AM   #12 (permalink)
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They only want to allow the high pinion 3rd member w/o the locker.
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Old 03-02-2006, 08:51 AM   #13 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by CronusTRD
That's not true. For example, the gaskets are mirror images of each other and two different part numbers. The difference is small however.
Think about it, the motors interchange, this person is incorrect.
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Old 03-02-2006, 09:11 AM   #14 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by CronusTRD
They only want to allow the high pinion 3rd member w/o the locker.
Heywood's running a hipinion elocker i think.
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Old 03-02-2006, 10:20 AM   #15 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Pook
Heywood's running a hipinion elocker i think.
Yes I am, It was less than $800 new from Toyota, and has been problem free
I was/am under the impression a rear elocker 3rd is "8" 3rd and legal.

I think the idea of the rules is to keep it affordable, where a guy with a stock welded 4cyl diff is on the same level or close too anyways.
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Old 03-02-2006, 11:50 AM   #16 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Heywood
Yes I am, It was less than $800 new from Toyota, and has been problem free
I was/am under the impression a rear elocker 3rd is "8" 3rd and legal.

I think the idea of the rules is to keep it affordable, where a guy with a stock welded 4cyl diff is on the same level or close too anyways.
Did you have to modify your housing (drill holes, change stud size)? If so, it sounds like you are outside of the rules.
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Old 03-02-2006, 01:27 PM   #17 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by desertoy
Did you have to modify your housing (drill holes, change stud size)? If so, it sounds like you are outside of the rules.
Are you telling me you dont know how a Hp elock 3rd goes into an 85 housing?
And you dont know the difference between the so called 8" and 8.4" 3rds?

Or are you just trying to stir more shit up?

And outside the rules?

How so?

Directly from the rules

"Must use Toyota 8" third members (FJ80, V6 or 4cyl)"

Last edited by Heywood; 03-02-2006 at 01:34 PM.
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Old 03-03-2006, 10:56 AM   #18 (permalink)
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I would want to think that the elocker would be allowed as a cheap alternative to the blingy ARB... helps the junk yard scrounger if they need it

I know around here its harder and harder to get the older toy diffs and parts, the wreckers don't carry anything that old, and you pretty much need to find someone thats partying one out.
What is th ebig deal with the Taco rear end? Its way stronger?

I can understand the bigger knuckles and birfs from a landcruiser steering setup etc... on a front diff being an advantage.
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Old 03-05-2006, 06:57 AM   #19 (permalink)
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I'm still baffled why this topic is such a sticking point with some people.

I had some bling ARBs lined up for my build, even was going to pull the trigger on a rear diamond..but you know what...FAWK that.

Found a 4cyl rear and going to run welded front and rears with a twin stick and FROR hydro assist just to be as basic as possible. Retro.

This is a drivers class so my thoughts are to quite worrying about this and that, get the sum bitch built then wheel the shit out of it.

All these minute differences (arguing about rules) is not going to make anyone more competitive or a better driver.

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Old 03-05-2006, 10:15 PM   #20 (permalink)
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I'm still baffled why this topic is such a sticking point with some people.

I had some bling ARBs lined up for my build, even was going to pull the trigger on a rear diamond..but you know what...FAWK that.

Found a 4cyl rear and going to run welded front and rears with a twin stick and FROR hydro assist just to be as basic as possible. Retro.

This is a drivers class so my thoughts are to quite worrying about this and that, get the sum bitch built then wheel the shit out of it.

All these minute differences (arguing about rules) is not going to make anyone more competitive or a better driver.

I'll be running th elow budget welded 4 cylinder thirds for the tinbender jambo anyways... between building the ftoy and a new shop cash is getting hard to find.
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Old 03-06-2006, 12:44 AM   #21 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by desertoy
Did you have to modify your housing (drill holes, change stud size)? If so, it sounds like you are outside of the rules.
I'm pretty sure a rear elocker has been offered as a factory option on 1990-1995 "hilux" minitrucks on certain markets.
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Old 03-06-2006, 05:52 AM   #22 (permalink)
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Quote:
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I'll be running th elow budget welded 4 cylinder thirds for the tinbender jambo anyways... between building the ftoy and a new shop cash is getting hard to find.

Amen on the cash thing...my wife and I are doing some H.I. projects

Several weeks ago Hobie sent a PM with an invite to call him. We talked Ftoy for a half hour or so. Ever since that call, my thoughts towards how to build this has changed and keeping in the spirit of FToy is important. My enlightenment Less is more.
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Old 03-06-2006, 09:19 AM   #23 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Heywood
Are you telling me you dont know how a Hp elock 3rd goes into an 85 housing?
And you dont know the difference between the so called 8" and 8.4" 3rds?

Or are you just trying to stir more shit up?

And outside the rules?

How so?

Directly from the rules

"Must use Toyota 8" third members (FJ80, V6 or 4cyl)"
That is what I am telling you. I don't know anything about Tacoma's because tacoma parts are not legal in formula Toy.
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Old 03-07-2006, 06:01 AM   #24 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Nissan Recovery Team

Found a 4cyl rear and going to run welded front and rears with a twin stick and FROR hydro assist just to be as basic as possible. Retro.



IMO, welded front is cool for backup, but not for comp or wheeling. you will defintely want the howe system just for turning that sucker. at the least, i would put a lockright in the front. i am thankful all the time i have an arb in the front. it keeps me from breaking stuff. when the whole rig is vertical on its nose and you need to take a hard left, you dont want to be locked during that time. ask bobby, welded fronts or spools, just wear the heck out of birfs.
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Old 03-07-2006, 11:38 AM   #25 (permalink)
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IMO, welded front is cool for backup, but not for comp or wheeling. you will defintely want the howe system just for turning that sucker. at the least, i would put a lockright in the front. i am thankful all the time i have an arb in the front. it keeps me from breaking stuff. when the whole rig is vertical on its nose and you need to take a hard left, you dont want to be locked during that time. ask bobby, welded fronts or spools, just wear the heck out of birfs.

well I thought about it and just ordered an elocker, makes sense that it'd be hell on the front diff parts having a welded diff in the rocks. Up here I'd run it for a while but with going to the jambo and moab this year in the same trip I'd rather have one less thing to worry about breaking.
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