IFS KOH F-toy

[camo]

Originally Posted by grandcherokee663

This is something I have been thinking about lately. A budget ifs buggy!

when you say "budget" what actual dollar figure do you have in mind for a completed rig ?

[camo]

As a benchmark I will use Pistols Bajalite race trucks.


specs 21" front travel, 25" rear, 2" KING coilovers and 3" KING bypasses, 2.4 ecotec engine (score tagged) stainless tig welded header, turbo 350 auto trans with all upgradeed sharfts and tcs converter, billet trans tailhousing, 32 gallon fuel cell, SPARCO seats, gate shifter, ron davis radiator,BIG fluidyne trans cooler, 35" MAXXIS bighorns on 16" american racing wheels, TUBEWORKS 5 x 5.5 foating hubs on all 4 corners, 13" rotors, BAER 4 piston nickel plated calipers, sway bar, PCI race radio and intercom setup,helmet pumper system, mastercraft nets and seatbelts, momo steering wheel with sweet quick release, KnN airfilter, spare tire and wheel, lug wrench, custom colorado body,HOWE rack system, fully wired, cnc master cylinder assembly, sliding drivers seat, dual mirrors, RACE READY..........$79,995.......

[grandcherokee663]

Originally Posted by camo

when you say "budget" what actual dollar figure do you have in mind for a completed rig ?

Don't have an exact dollor figure in mind, but I would assume if I bought used parts on a good deal I could do it for around 10 g's. But that's also using junkyard motor trans and tcase as well as used shocks and suspension. I would have to buy the big ticket items on a good deal!

[grandcherokee663]

Is their a calculator for ifs? Also anybody have any good sources on how to build your own custom a-arms? I've done some research but it seems anyone that knows anything wont give that knowledge away for free.

[camo]

I am thinking along the lines of a stock frame with tube chassis similar to the Ftoy and fiberglass skins so it looks like a Truck



22re
toy 5 speed
9" rear
8" ifs front

aftermarket production front suspension system ... ie total chaos, camburg
with 12" front travel. coilover only

Rear suspension
leave springs and bypass shocks max travel 14"

budget wise, lets say you can built a state of the art Ftoy for $25,000
I am thinking a desert race ready Koh-Toy would run $30,000 +

would look similar to this

[camo]

Originally Posted by grandcherokee663

Don't have an exact dollor figure in mind, but I would assume if I bought used parts on a good deal I could do it for around 10 g's. But that's also using junkyard motor trans and tcase as well as used shocks and suspension. I would have to buy the big ticket items on a good deal!

um you have never seen a desert race truck in person have you ?

while I am the first to admire oakie ingenuity and being frugal..... ah what the hell. Build your 10k racer and lets see how it does in the desert,

[grandcherokee663]

Originally Posted by camo

um you have never seen a desert race truck in person have you ?

while I am the first to admire oakie ingenuity and being frugal..... ah what the hell. Build your 10k racer and lets see how it does in the desert,

Yea I have seen desert trucks and been to koh,which their was many parked around the pits. I do understand that this shit gets expensive! But I do believe it can be done for close to 10k, but not saying I'm stoping my budget at that number!

Used parts and good deals are the key!

[mobil1syn]

in all honestly a tacoma would be a better platform for what youre trying to do. 3rz has more power, tacomas have more aftermarket suspension options.

[camo]

Originally Posted by mobil1syn

in all honestly a tacoma would be a better platform for what youre trying to do. 3rz has more power, tacomas have more aftermarket suspension options.

a quick look around suggest that the aftermarket front suspension kits are still limited to 13" of travel ? are you looking at a kit that has more then this ?

[ToolBox Guy]

Originally Posted by camo

a quick look around suggest that the aftermarket front suspension kits are still limited to 13" of travel ? are you looking at a kit that has more then this ?

With my very limited knowledge in Toy aftermarket or any IFS suspension for that matter, is there much of a need to have more travel than that?

I understand that in most cases more is better, and 13" is not a huge # in this case, but is it at all relative and suitable for 22re horspower? Or would building a complete ground up front suspension be more suitable?

[camo]

Originally Posted by ToolBox Guy

With my very limited knowledge in Toy aftermarket or any IFS suspension for that matter, is there much of a need to have more travel than that?

I understand that in most cases more is better, and 13" is not a huge # in this case, but is it at all relative and suitable for 22re horspower? Or would building a complete ground up front suspension be more suitable?

there is always need for more travel.

the key is matching the weight , travel and horsepower to build a well balanced rig.

in my opinion the 22re at 120hp or so is an ok match for the 12" of travel a long arm IFS kit has for that model of truck. Putting a 150hp and 13" in the same rig isn't going to make it go any faster.


of course building a comple ground up suspension is ideal.... so is having a $80k budget :smoking:


the goal would be to achieve 70% of the desert performance of Pistols Baja lite that I posted above in #77 while adding the 4wd needed to run KOH and trails

[mobil1syn]

Originally Posted by camo

there is always need for more travel.

the key is matching the weight , travel and horsepower to build a well balanced rig.

in my opinion the 22re at 120hp or so is an ok match for the 12" of travel a long arm IFS kit has for that model of truck. Putting a 150hp and 13" in the same rig isn't going to make it go any faster.


of course building a comple ground up suspension is ideal.... so is having a $80k budget :smoking:


the goal would be to achieve 70% of the desert performance of Pistols Baja lite that I posted above in #77 while adding the 4wd needed to run KOH and trails

ill have to search around but i believe that dan vance was winning the 1450 class with 13" of travel. id be willing to bet he could run circles around pistol.

id keep the 12-13" travel front end and link the rear for ~20" of travel. most of the dezert companies are doing what they can with the stock tundra half-shafts and that is the limiting factor. with custom shafts you might be able to pull a little more.

last time i checked shannon/cole didnt make it past the 20" mark and they have center mounted arms. id try to use as much bolt on suspension stuff as possible allowing for marketing possibilities.

pistol is limited by motor and think he has more travel then have really make use of, but im willing to bet he did that to allow for different motors to be used.

[chvyhs]

Could you use a different front diff? Something out of a fullsize Chevy or Ford and get more strength? Something that the aftermarket already has parts for.

[camo]

Originally Posted by chvyhs

Could you use a different front diff? Something out of a fullsize Chevy or Ford and get more strength? Something that the aftermarket already has parts for.

See post #67

[Tech Tim]

Originally Posted by camo

the key is matching the weight , travel and horsepower to build a well balanced rig.

Camo has it right there. It is all a package deal if you want the best performance.

Originally Posted by Camo

in my opinion the 22re at 120hp or so is an ok match for the 12" of travel a long arm IFS kit has for that model of truck. Putting a 150hp and 13" in the same rig isn't going to make it go any faster.

Conversely adding 18" of front travel to a 120hp rig isn't going to make it go any faster, if anything it would be easier to get in over your head if you don't have the power to use the longer travel.

Originally Posted by mobil1syn

ill have to search around but i believe that dan vance was winning the 1450 class with 13" of travel. id be willing to bet he could run circles around pistol.

Dan's Kung Fu 1450 rig is running the TC 2wd Race suspension and is 15". On it's inaugural trip to the desert they were playing chauffeur to a medic to get him out to a crash site. Not only did they beat the helicopter to the crash site, but passed many race trucks on the way (or so the story goes somewhat).

Originally Posted by mobil1syn

last time i checked shannon/cole didnt make it past the 20" mark and they have center mounted arms. id try to use as much bolt on suspension stuff as possible allowing for marketing possibilities.

Shannon said he was strapped at 14" in the KOH rig, iirc 18" for the Class 1.

[Hilux_Max]

Guys,

thought id throw this here for discussion......

Has anyone considered using a 2007+ Tundra, Landcruiser 200 series front diff into an IFS based FToy?


Check out these facts -

9" (8.7 to be exact) crown gear, 34 spline cv shafts, all aluminium housing, clamshell design like taco/hilux etc, and also utilise a 3 mount design similar to Taco/Hilux.



Im sure custom made mounts wouldnt be a problem....it would be keeping it all Toyota, and coming from vehicles that run V8's standard Im, sure both the diff and the 34 spline shafts would be able to handle upto a 40" tyre better than a 7.5 or typical 8" IFS front diff would.

[112]

Thats pretty sweet. What is the width without the CV's?

[Hilux_Max]

Not sure how much without the cv's but the track width on a landcruiser 200 is 64.6 inches as a reference.

Which is about 5 inches wider than a 05+ Hilux/Taco.

Maybe use them with Long Travel Upper and Lower Control arms to suit the width thou Id imagine you would need custom steering knuckles/spindles to make it work.

Just another option out there.

[chvyhs]

Originally Posted by 112

I have a chevy 4.3/t350/ toy doubler tcase stock gears.
I will start a build thread today.

Originally Posted by camo

See post #67

Why are we worried about using all Toyota parts now?

[Taco-Runner]

Originally Posted by Hilux_Max

Not sure how much without the cv's but the track width on a landcruiser 200 is 64.6 inches as a reference.

Which is about 5 inches wider than a 05+ Hilux/Taco.

Maybe use them with Long Travel Upper and Lower Control arms to suit the width thou Id imagine you would need custom steering knuckles/spindles to make it work.

Just another option out there.

How about the new Tundra IFS


Never mind I only read the last post.

[MT4Runner]

Originally Posted by grandcherokee663

Yea I have seen desert trucks and been to koh,which their was many parked around the pits. I do understand that this shit gets expensive! But I do believe it can be done for close to 10k, but not saying I'm stoping my budget at that number!

Used parts and good deals are the key!

Speed costs money, son.
How fast do you want to go?!?!?

You can easily build a nice solid axle FToy for under $10k. Mine is proof of that. (I consider it nice--and my parts list is at $8k).

You can't GO FAST for under $10k.
With a TON of scrounging and bartering, you could do it for under $20k.
You don't have to reinvent the wheel. JeepSpeeds can currently go faster in the desert than FToys. Using them as a baseline for parts and suspension, could you put together a JeepSpeed for under $20k? Yes, but it'll take some work. $10k ain't. Gonna. Happen.

Originally Posted by ToolBox Guy

With my very limited knowledge in Toy aftermarket or any IFS suspension for that matter, is there much of a need to have more travel than that?

I understand that in most cases more is better, and 13" is not a huge # in this case, but is it at all relative and suitable for 22re horspower? Or would building a complete ground up front suspension be more suitable?

Jeepspeeds do it with relatively little wheel travel---but the ones that really get it are VERY WELL TUNED!!!

Originally Posted by Hilux_Max

Has anyone considered using a 2007+ Tundra, Landcruiser 200 series front diff into an IFS based FToy?

Figure out a way to shorten the long side (shorter tube and custom inner axle), and you could have a strong, relatively centered diff that the aftermarket stuff would just bolt onto from the plungers out.
Use long-travel CV inners, and you would still have a relatively normal track width.

[112]

Originally Posted by chvyhs

Why are we worried about using all Toyota parts now?

Im dyslexic, i thought i had a 3.4!

[Tech Tim]

Originally Posted by Hilux_Max

Guys,

thought id throw this here for discussion......

Has anyone considered using a 2007+ Tundra, Landcruiser 200 series front diff into an IFS based FToy?


Check out these facts -

9" (8.7 to be exact) crown gear, 34 spline cv shafts, all aluminium housing, clamshell design like taco/hilux etc, and also utilise a 3 mount design similar to Taco/Hilux.



Im sure custom made mounts wouldnt be a problem....it would be keeping it all Toyota, and coming from vehicles that run V8's standard Im, sure both the diff and the 34 spline shafts would be able to handle upto a 40" tyre better than a 7.5 or typical 8" IFS front diff would.

We are doing Air Lockers into a 200 series Land Cruiser next Saturday, I'll stick a tape measure on it and see how short it could be made. Too bad it wasn't a 3rd member drop out...

[Hilux_Max]

That'd be great Tim...looking forward to the info.

[scottal]

I didnt read all of these pages and someone may have already mentioned this but there is a company makin long travel arms for the 80s model toyota ifs trucks. Its allowin you to get 12-14 inches of travel with the stock ifs axles. Its an expensive kit but extremely cool. I would have to look up the company again cause I cant remember the name of it right now. I do know that a good buddy of mine was runnin factory ifs with a lockrite and 35 mud terrains and the cv axles did not like it when you put your foot in it hard. If they didnt break then they were pullin apart on him. I love the idea of runnin it in KOH if it would stay together from bigger tire size.